Remind me again why?

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
At my age and limited income, I don't spend a lot of money on pool anymore. Some equipment here and there, some league membership/weekly fees, etc.

But I've got to tell you guys, I'd pull money out of my savings account and fly anywhere in the country to see a debate with John B. and the RKC going at it. Maybe even have it on PPV.

This sh*t is priceless.

I really get amused when one of the combatants quotes the same guy's post three different times during the course of the thread....as if the first time wasn't enough. ROFLMAO!

Maniac (you can't make this stuff up)
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
You're correct. I tend to believe that pool shouldn't be a professional sport capable of supporting people anyway. If it had any value, someone would have taken charge by now.
Exactly what the powers-that-be at Matchroom are trying to do now.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
PPV don’t work in porn, how is it going to work in pool? Serious question

And sex has a MUCH more participation than pool……
Yeah, but pool is "sexy", you build it and they will cum.....errrr come ;)
 

Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Exactly what the powers-that-be at Matchroom are trying to do now.
What do you think Jay? Will Matchroom bring back pool?

I think between them and what I have seen Ra Hanna doing with the juniors there is a chance. Matchroom certainly has credentials while Ra seems to be gaining some traction. What Ra is doing is absolutely necessary for pools future if there is one, without young players coming up what we have is older folks playing leagues at bars. I give him high praise to how dedicated and professional his organization is. The juniors seem to love it, as does their families..
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
What do you think Jay? Will Matchroom bring back pool?

I think between them and what I have seen Ra Hanna doing with the juniors there is a chance. Matchroom certainly has credentials while Ra seems to be gaining some traction. What Ra is doing is absolutely necessary for pools future if there is one, without young players coming up what we have is older folks playing leagues at bars. I give him high praise to how dedicated and professional his organization is. The juniors seem to love it, as does their families..
I don't know what will happen, but I'm glad to see them stepping up to the plate and trying to do something. More good pool promotion can only increase interest in the game and afford more opportunities for pro players as well.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't know what will happen, but I'm glad to see them stepping up to the plate and trying to do something. More good pool promotion can only increase interest in the game and afford more opportunities for pro players as well.
I'd like to see more of the pros banding together, maybe during slow tournaments months, and traveling to some of the bigger cities for lessons, boot camps, and action!
 

Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd like to see more of the pros banding together, maybe during slow tournaments months, and traveling to some of the bigger cities for lessons, boot camps, and action!
I know Allison has had spent some time commentating at the junior events with Ra Hanna. No surprise really, she is a wonderful person. Love watching her during her snooker career. So sweet, cute and deadly!
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My only issue with matcheoom is they turn the players into robots. They did in snooker. If they mic’ed up the players like Jay suggested in a different thread today and made some other adjustments so it’s not so dry that would be great. They did a great job woth darts. Pub sport is their biz-make it exciting somehow
 
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KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
My only issue with matcheoom is they turn the players into robots. They did in snooker. If they mic’ed up the players like Jay suggested in a different thread today and made some other adjustments so it’s not so dry that would be great. They did a great job woth darts. Pub sport is their biz-make it exciting somehow
Yup, it's a new world. There are 500 channels to choose from. But, watching old dudes, shooting pool in suit and ties and asking to pass the Grey Poupon is just not going to cut it anymore.

You need a hook. Folks got so many options to watch, to spend their money on, etc. You need to catch their attention, hook them, and then slowly reel in their wallets ;)
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
This certainly qualifies as one of the worst threads in the history of the AZB forum.

It opens with a simple question, which is answered by many people with fairly vast experience in and around the game. Many of them have been mocked and belittled by the admittedly knowledgeable and ambitious initial poster as being clueless and uninformed.

It's my turn now, and while I won't be surprised if I'm belittled and discredited after I've had my say, I'm going to be courageous.

Let's start by saying this. Although I am a fan first and foremost, I am very knowledgeable about pool's demographics in America, having played many different roles over the years in our sport. I have probably spent over ten years in my life in Europe, including a lot in recent years. I am not familiar with the Asian pool scene, other than what I've heard.

America
From my vantage point, the correct answer to the question posed in the original post, as Joey in Cali pointed out in post #2 of this thread, is demographics. ESPN ratings for pool, as I'm sure the original poster knows as well as anyone, were not terrible until one considered which demographic group was being reached with those telecasts. It was an older than average, lower income than average viewer that was typically the one watching, not the viewer with great spending power and not the one that is attractive to most top marketing concerns. Pool's negative image has helped feed the negative demographics that have, at times, obstructed pool from building relationships with outside-of-the-industry sponsors. This is not meant to state as a fact that such sponsorship is outside of pool's grasp, but pool's demographics have made it an uphill struggle.

Europe
I've spent years of my life in Europe, including about one month a year since my retirement in 2008. I've played in the pool halls of the UK, the Netherlands, France, Belgium and Germany over the years. I cannot say, based on my own limited experience, that pool attracts a very different demographic in Europe than that in America. During my visits, I haven't see substantial growth in pool in Europe. The only place in Europe where pool seems really well organized is Germany, where the league system is a shining example of how good things can be in our sport. On the pro scene, the sport seems to be growing only as a result of Matchroom's efforts, but the growth is slow and the future uncertain.

Asia
I simply have nothing to offer here. With the growth of pool in China, perhaps this is an untapped market that offers some possibilities.

....... so let's not pretend that there aren't barriers to attainment of the kind of sponsorship pool would like to have. Our initial poster is ambitiously putting together a business plan for moving pool forward, and I'm among those that wishes him every possible success, and if and when he does succeed, he'll have my unswerving support.

I'm keeping an open mind.
 
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buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This certainly qualifies as one of the worst threads in the history of the AZB forum.

It opens with a simple question, which is answered by many people with fairly vast experience in and around the game. Many of them have been mocked and belittled by the admittedly knowledgeable and ambitious initial poster as being clueless and uninformed.

It's my turn now, and while I won't be surprised if I'm belittled and discredited after I've had my say, I'm going to be courageous.

Let's start by saying this. Although I am a fan first and foremost, I am very knowledgeable about pool's demographics in America, having played many different roles over the years in our sport. I have probably spent over ten years in my life in Europe, including a lot in recent years. I am not familiar with the Asian pool scene, other than what I've heard.

America
From my vantage point, the correct answer to the question posed in the original post, as Joey in Cali pointed out in post #2 of this thread, is demographics. ESPN ratings for pool, as I'm sure the original poster knows as well as anyone, were not terrible until one considered which demographic group was being reached with those telecasts. It was an older than average, lower income than average viewer that was typically the one watching, not the viewer with great spending power and not those who are attractive to most top marketing concerns. Pool's negative image has helped feed the negative demographics that have, at times, obstructed pool from building relationships with outside-of-the-industry sponsors. This is not meant to state as a fact that such sponsorship is outside of pool's grasp, but it is pool's demographics have made it an uphill struggle.

Europe
I've spent years of my life in Europe, including about one month a year since my retirement in 2008. I've played in the pool halls of the UK, the Netherlands, France, Belgium and Germany over the years. I cannot say, based on my own limited experience, that pool attracts a very different demographic in Europe than that in America. During my visits, I haven't see substantial growth in pool in Europe. The only place in Europe where pool seems really well organized is Germany, where the league system is a shining example of how good things can be in our sport. On the pro scene, the sport seems to be growing only as a result of Matchroom's efforts, but the growth is slow and the future uncertain.

Asia
I simply have nothing to offer here. With the growth of pool in China, perhaps this is an untapped market that offers some possibilities.

....... so let's not pretend that there aren't barriers to attainment of the kind of sponsorship pool would like to have. Our initial poster is ambitiously putting together a business plan for moving pool forward, and I'm among those that wishes him every possible success, and if and when he does succeed, he'll have my unswerving support.

I'm keeping an open mind.
Damn! An intelligent, well worded, respectful, post! What the hell is that doing here?
 

cubswin

Just call me Joe...
Silver Member
Have you ever read an NFL or NBA board of anonymous trolls.? Even college sports.

This is no bellwether of success, trust me.
The difference is the nfl and nba players are not the ones, in general, posting. Here it is the people that think they can make the game into something it isnt.
 

cubswin

Just call me Joe...
Silver Member
You're correct. I tend to believe that pool shouldn't be a professional sport capable of supporting people anyway. If it had any value, someone would have taken charge by now.

I personally think the very best players should be able to make a living doing it. Most of the people that have made a living from it in the US have done so with exhibitions. I believe most of the true legends did so, but even then very few made their living from only pool. Even fishing, which is done by far more people, doesn't support a huge number of professionals making a living. Almost everyone in that field has to do so by sponsorship and seminars. Both are hobbies for even the above average players (or in the case of fishing anglers).

Of course people can make a living from the industry, but almost all of them are not going to do it by being players only.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
i've laughed all day at this

silverbacks can be jerks but I can watch them all day. Bad to the bone on a banana diet. Audubon Zoo had a two by two foot square of sod that they had put down in the gorilla area. Somebody teased the silverback and he hummed it about forty feet into the crowd! Bottom line, don't piss with gorillas, particularly the silverbacks. They are Lord High Master of all they survey and don't mind proving it now and then!!

Hu
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
I personally think the very best players should be able to make a living doing it. Most of the people that have made a living from it in the US have done so with exhibitions. I believe most of the true legends did so, but even then very few made their living from only pool. Even fishing, which is done by far more people, doesn't support a huge number of professionals making a living. Almost everyone in that field has to do so by sponsorship and seminars. Both are hobbies for even the above average players (or in the case of fishing anglers).

Of course people can make a living from the industry, but almost all of them are not going to do it by being players only.

I have said many time if a young person said Pro Pool Player was their dream profession. I would reply play pool for fun. Take up Golf, get on PGA Tour, and make a decent living.

When was the last time a Pro Golfer got a rubber check for wing s PGA event?

If you do not get point ask Jay Halfert, and Johnny Archer about rubber checks, and Chuck Bobbit.🤣
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
America
From my vantage point, the correct answer to the question posed in the original post, as Joey in Cali pointed out in post #2 of this thread, is demographics. ESPN ratings for pool, as I'm sure the original poster knows as well as anyone, were not terrible until one considered which demographic group was being reached with those telecasts. It was an older than average, lower income than average viewer that was typically the one watching, not the viewer with great spending power and not those who are attractive to most top marketing concerns. Pool's negative image has helped feed the negative demographics that have, at times, obstructed pool from building relationships with outside-of-the-industry sponsors. This is not meant to state as a fact that such sponsorship is outside of pool's grasp, but it is pool's demographics have made it an uphill struggle.
You forgot to mention the fiasco that followed when Buddy Hall "missed" an easy combination that gave an underdog Mike Lebron the 1991 International Challenge of Champions victory. I think pool may have lost ESPN forever with that scam...and deservedly so.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
You forgot to mention the fiasco that followed when Buddy Hall "missed" an easy combination that gave an underdog Mike Lebron the 1991 International Challenge of Champions victory. I think pool may have lost ESPN forever with that scam...and deservedly so.
OK, you'll have to educate me, for I had no idea that this affected pool's relationship with ESPN in in any way, Pool was on ESPN for another twenty years after the alleged C of C dump, which I remember well.
 
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