Rodney Morris Challenges the Top 25 European Players

[Celtic]

It's so cool to finally see some other Pros posting on AZ Billiards, maybe the word is out that the trolls have all been run off, and it's safe to state opinions and messages like Darren did. I can tell a big difference between now and a year ago.

Win or lose, Rodney enjoys gambling....he's a class act, no matter what the outcome....he was one of the toughest matches I've ever played that's for sure.

It's just cool to see some potential big money match ups....hopefully behind closed doors.

Honestly CJ, the problems that some pros have had on AZBilliards was as much a product of their own creation as opposed to trolls.

Bartrum has been a member of AZBilliards for a long time and has had no issues. At the same time that Bartrum was on here simply getting a long with people John S had some issues, but John S was at least in part responsible for the way things went as far as him and this forum.

Keith I know tends to avoid the forum more then I would like (as he is a great contributor) because of issues he has had but I think even he would admit the problem people are a small minority, most of us love it when he posts.

You yourself came across a little strong at times and you have gotten into arguments against other strong personalities from time to time but overall I think the more time you have spent here the more you have found your niche and become more accepted as a active and contributing member of the forum.

One thing I think AZBilliards dislikes more then anything is the pros who come here only to post news stories once a year or who come here only when they want something like sponsorship into an event or some votes on a poll. It is pretty obvious when the forum and the community are simply being used as a tool, and the pros that use AZBilliards like that have to realize it. It is not lost on us when a tournament director/pro pops on here to post an event advertisement and then disappears for another year or two, or the new professional players association of the month starts up a thread that is simply a press statement being posted by a pro who normally ignores this site for years at a time.

Guys like Bartrum, Darren, Keith, and many of the other pros on here who are a "part" of AZBilliards tend to have a lot of respect because they in turn show this community a lot of respect. I think the last year of changes you have seen is partly that, you have become a part of the community and shown that you are not here simply to use the forum to sell videos and instead you actually do contribute and take part in a wide variety of topics/threads. Thus you are now becoming an accepted member of the community and are being treated as such.

 

[Celtic]

So the ultimate pressure would be gambling by the game

It would be a really interesting TAR to see a payout by the game structure.

Imagine a TAR where each game is $50 to the winner and $0 to the loser.

You get 1 day of 8-ball with a total of $2000 up for grabs (40 games total)

1 day of 10-ball with $2000 up for grabs (40 games total)

and 1 day of 1-pocket for $125 per a game with $2000 up for grabs (16 games total)

This would be fairly awesome because both players would really be shooting to keep the other guy from winning any games and get the biggest chunk of the prize fund as possible.

Unlike current TAR there is no decent 2nd place money, if you get truly horse ****ed then you could go home with very little and the guy who dominates will get the lions share.

But in a close match where both players shoot great there will be a fairly good balance of the money paid out that will reflect how close the match really was.

 

[jay helfert]

Honestly CJ, the problems that some pros have had on AZBilliards was as much a product of their own creation as opposed to trolls.

Bartrum has been a member of AZBilliards for a long time and has had no issues. At the same time that Bartrum was on here simply getting a long with people John S had some issues, but John S was at least in part responsible for the way things went as far as him and this forum.

Keith I know tends to avoid the forum more then I would like (as he is a great contributor) because of issues he has had but I think even he would admit the problem people are a small minority, most of us love it when he posts.

You yourself came across a little strong at times and you have gotten into arguments against other strong personalities from time to time but overall I think the more time you have spent here the more you have found your niche and become more accepted as a active and contributing member of the forum.

One thing I think AZBilliards dislikes more then anything is the pros who come here only to post news stories once a year or who come here only when they want something like sponsorship into an event or some votes on a poll. It is pretty obvious when the forum and the community are simply being used as a tool, and the pros that use AZBilliards like that have to realize it. It is not lost on us when a tournament director/pro pops on here to post an event advertisement and then disappears for another year or two, or the new professional players association of the month starts up a thread that is simply a press statement being posted by a pro who normally ignores this site for years at a time.

Guys like Bartrum, Darren, Keith, and many of the other pros on here who are a "part" of AZBilliards tend to have a lot of respect because they in turn show this community a lot of respect. I think the last year of changes you have seen is partly that, you have become a part of the community and shown that you are not here simply to use the forum to sell videos and instead you actually do contribute and take part in a wide variety of topics/threads. Thus you are now becoming an accepted member of the community and are being treated as such.

A tip of my hat to you sir!

 

[SakuJack]

It would be a really interesting TAR to see a payout by the game structure.

Imagine a TAR where each game is $50 to the winner and $0 to the loser.

You get 1 day of 8-ball with a total of $2000 up for grabs (40 games total)

1 day of 10-ball with $2000 up for grabs (40 games total)

and 1 day of 1-pocket for $125 per a game with $2000 up for grabs (16 games total)

This would be fairly awesome because both players would really be shooting to keep the other guy from winning any games and get the biggest chunk of the prize fund as possible.

Unlike current TAR there is no decent 2nd place money, if you get truly horse ****ed then you could go home with very little and the guy who dominates will get the lions share.

But in a close match where both players shoot great there will be a fairly good balance of the money paid out that will reflect how close the match really was.

I'd be very interested to see how this played out.

 

[BeiberLvr]

It would be a really interesting TAR to see a payout by the game structure.

Imagine a TAR where each game is $50 to the winner and $0 to the loser.

You get 1 day of 8-ball with a total of $2000 up for grabs (40 games total)

1 day of 10-ball with $2000 up for grabs (40 games total)

and 1 day of 1-pocket for $125 per a game with $2000 up for grabs (16 games total)

This would be fairly awesome because both players would really be shooting to keep the other guy from winning any games and get the biggest chunk of the prize fund as possible.

Unlike current TAR there is no decent 2nd place money, if you get truly horse ****ed then you could go home with very little and the guy who dominates will get the lions share.

But in a close match where both players shoot great there will be a fairly good balance of the money paid out that will reflect how close the match really was.

I really really like this idea.

 

[Ian-MMTV]

I am from Europe and I am very well familiar with European pool scene and BELIEVE me,there is no one here who would beat Rodney for 25K,no one.Also,it would be hard to find any player in Europe who has money or backers for this going on.
There are few who are strong money players but not caliber as Rodney is.Also,here players are not used on high stacks and their self confidence in money matches with high stacks are really low and almost all of them have never played not for 10K.
So,he would beat everyone here,and that's for sure.
Also,I know and can guarantee that high stack match like this is never gonna happen because of all these facts I written,and from my experience too.
Unless any of you American supporters of European players would invest your own money on that bet and back any of them up ,since there is no one here who would put money in this game on any Europeans.Of course,there would be many who would talk otherwise but not one would give money and back them when comes to this.You will see I have right about this.
Ivica

you sir are clueless. MMTV has streamed a few games in the last few month for more than the sums you have mentioned.... Rodney cant beat Appleton at 9/10ball and it doesnt matter if they play in the status or the uk...

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Honestly CJ, the problems that some pros have had on AZBilliards was as much a product of their own creation as opposed to trolls.

Bartrum has been a member of AZBilliards for a long time and has had no issues. At the same time that Bartrum was on here simply getting a long with people John S had some issues, but John S was at least in part responsible for the way things went as far as him and this forum.

Keith I know tends to avoid the forum more then I would like (as he is a great contributor) because of issues he has had but I think even he would admit the problem people are a small minority, most of us love it when he posts.

You yourself came across a little strong at times and you have gotten into arguments against other strong personalities from time to time but overall I think the more time you have spent here the more you have found your niche and become more accepted as a active and contributing member of the forum.

One thing I think AZBilliards dislikes more then anything is the pros who come here only to post news stories once a year or who come here only when they want something like sponsorship into an event or some votes on a poll. It is pretty obvious when the forum and the community are simply being used as a tool, and the pros that use AZBilliards like that have to realize it. It is not lost on us when a tournament director/pro pops on here to post an event advertisement and then disappears for another year or two, or the new professional players association of the month starts up a thread that is simply a press statement being posted by a pro who normally ignores this site for years at a time.

Guys like Bartrum, Darren, Keith, and many of the other pros on here who are a "part" of AZBilliards tend to have a lot of respect because they in turn show this community a lot of respect. I think the last year of changes you have seen is partly that, you have become a part of the community and shown that you are not here simply to use the forum to sell videos and instead you actually do contribute and take part in a wide variety of topics/threads. Thus you are now becoming an accepted member of the community and are being treated as such.

Great post. If more pro's came here, shared, and had thick enough skin to dodge the probing jerks, they'd open more doors. Chris Bartram may not be a Rhode Scholar, but perhaps he's a Road Scholar.

 

[backplaying]

The "Diamond game" and the "Gold Crown game" are two different type games, much like in tennis when a tournament is on grass, clay, or synthetic surfaces. Diamond is more like grass, it's fast, the rails are lively and you can't really "stroke" the shots.....because of the speed you have to be very delicate with your "shot speed".

Rodney favors Gold Crowns because he's more of a power player and his game is best suited for slower playing conditions. Yes, he can play very well on "Diamonds," I'm simply saying he's a slight underdog against Darren under those conditions. On slower, tighter equipment he's the favorite.....'The Game is the Teacher'

I would bet many of the older players can still play better on a goldcrown. I think Johnny would prefer a goldcrown any day over a diamond. As you say, it is two different games. Diamond making it a finesse game and goldcrown making it more of a power stroke game.

 

[Fast Lenny]

My mistake, I thought you were speaking for or backing Rodney. I believe this is a picture of Rodney winning the 2013 U S Open 10 ball championship.

Looks like a diamond table to me and therefore I believe Rodney can play on a diamond perfectly fine.

If the match does happen I'll be pulling for Rodney. I never particularly cared for Appleton's demeanor although his talent is undeniable.

Is this match online yet? Was something to behold for sure.

 

[sjm]

Great post. If more pro's came here, shared, and had thick enough skin to dodge the probing jerks, they'd open more doors. Chris Bartram may not be a Rhode Scholar, but perhaps he's a Road Scholar.

+1. Celtic is an excellent poster on this forum who understands its culture, and as he notes, some pros have made AZB work for them by adapting to that culture.

 

[pt109]

Great post. If more pro's came here, shared, and had thick enough skin to dodge the probing jerks, they'd open more doors. Chris Bartram may not be a Rhode Scholar, but perhaps he's a Road Scholar.

Don't forget John Brumback......
...if every pro had his attitude, some would be millionaires.

 

[CJ Wiley]

.Maybe no one hits the balls firm enough to reach the back of the pocket

I would bet many of the older players can still play better on a goldcrown. I think Johnny would prefer a goldcrown any day over a diamond. As you say, it is two different games. Diamond making it a finesse game and goldcrown making it more of a power stroke game.

There's nothing like the sound a Gold Crown makes when the ball hits the back of the pocket. Diamonds don't make that sound for some reason.....Maybe no one hits the balls firm enough to reach the back of the pocket these days.

"Finesse Pool" is about as exciting as watching "Finesse Tennis or Golf".....Tiger Woods is entertaining because of his power game, although there's always going to be finesse when required......but when it's mostly finesse, it's mostly boring. Watching Champion players run a rack once they get "in line" is like watching a series of one foot putts. imho

 

[Pathetic Shark]

There's nothing like the sound a Gold Crown makes when the ball hits the back of the pocket. Diamonds don't make that sound for some reason.....Maybe no one hits the balls firm enough to reach the back of the pocket these days.

"Finesse Pool" is about as exciting as watching "Finesse Tennis or Golf".....Tiger Woods is entertaining because of his power game, although there's always going to be finesse when required......but when it's mostly finesse, it's mostly boring. Watching Champion players run a rack once they get "in line" is like watching a series of one foot putts. imho

Agreed. How about adding some bunkers or a slight slope to part of the table? :wink:

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Diamond making it a finesse game and goldcrown making it more of a power stroke game.

That's it in a nutshell. Pro conditions are about control; amateur conditions are about power. Power is more watchable than control, which is porn without the money shot.

 

[JCIN]

It would be a really interesting TAR to see a payout by the game structure.

Imagine a TAR where each game is $50 to the winner and $0 to the loser.

You get 1 day of 8-ball with a total of $2000 up for grabs (40 games total)

1 day of 10-ball with $2000 up for grabs (40 games total)

and 1 day of 1-pocket for $125 per a game with $2000 up for grabs (16 games total)

This would be fairly awesome because both players would really be shooting to keep the other guy from winning any games and get the biggest chunk of the prize fund as possible.

Unlike current TAR there is no decent 2nd place money, if you get truly horse ****ed then you could go home with very little and the guy who dominates will get the lions share.

But in a close match where both players shoot great there will be a fairly good balance of the money paid out that will reflect how close the match really was.

Thats an interesting concept. Something to think about.

I would disagree that the loser of a current format match gets very little. For example the last all around had a $5000 prize fund with paid hotels for the players. It was a three day all around with $1000 going to each days winner, $500 going to the loser and a $500 bonus to whoever won two out of three. Corey won one day and Shane won two making the pay out $3000 for Shane and $2000 for Corey.

Using your model if a guy gets hammered he would get much less than the current structure. As it stands in the current all around format a guy could show up never win a game and make $1500. I think if anything an argument could be made for a bigger disparity in payout. Your format does provide some interesting points to think about by breaking down the goal to a smaller level of each actual game instead of a set and would penalize a guy heavily for getting blown out. Which may be a good thing.

Selling that to the players is another question entirely though.

 

[JC]

Selling that to the players is another question entirely though.

Don't worry, no one shows up at that level and thinks they aren't going to win a lot of games. Even if it turns out that way they don't think it the next time. They can't afford those thoughts.

JC.

 

[Celtic]

Thats an interesting concept. Something to think about.

I would disagree that the loser of a current format match gets very little. For example the last all around had a $5000 prize fund with paid hotels for the players. It was a three day all around with $1000 going to each days winner, $500 going to the loser and a $500 bonus to whoever won two out of three. Corey won one day and Shane won two making the pay out $3000 for Shane and $2000 for Corey.

Using your model if a guy gets hammered he would get much less than the current structure. As it stands in the current all around format a guy could show up never win a game and make $1500. I think if anything an argument could be made for a bigger disparity in payout.

That is exactly what I meant to say, must have made it a little confusing with my wording.

What I meant by "Unlike current TAR there is no decent 2nd place money" is that "This system, unlike current TAR, would not have guaranteed decent second place money".

I think the players would buy into it. You are basically giving the players a huge freeroll to win as many games as possible with every game they win being money in their pocket. Heck you could have a stack of money right there in the studio and be paying these guys cash every game they win on the spot, that could be pretty interesting when SVB runs a 10 pack off the lag, has $500 in his pockets, and his opponent is sitting there glowering wondering if he is going to get white washed.

Keeping the money tally on screen as the "score" would also be interesting.

 

[jay helfert]

There's nothing like the sound a Gold Crown makes when the ball hits the back of the pocket. Diamonds don't make that sound for some reason.....Maybe no one hits the balls firm enough to reach the back of the pocket these days.

"Finesse Pool" is about as exciting as watching "Finesse Tennis or Golf".....Tiger Woods is entertaining because of his power game, although there's always going to be finesse when required......but when it's mostly finesse, it's mostly boring. Watching Champion players run a rack once they get "in line" is like watching a series of one foot putts. imho

Bring back "push out" 9-Ball on a table with Stevens cloth and the blue circle cue ball. :thumbup:
Do it your way CJ!

 

[pt109]

Bring back "push out" 9-Ball on a table with Stevens cloth and the blue circle cue ball. :thumbup:
Do it your way CJ!

I never minded 'roll out' rules.....
...but Stevens cloth?

That would be like golf going back to hickory shafts....
....and un-mowed greens

 

[elvicash]

I never minded 'roll out' rules.....
...but Stevens cloth?

That would be like golf going back to hickory shafts....
....and un-mowed greens

Slow cloth would require the bigger stroke and would reward the players with the power. It would do more to separate the quality of players. The thick cloth was one thing the IPT probably had right. We all love to play on slick cloth, you can get most anywhere most of the time, thick cloth not so easy unless you got the power.

Some rules which would make an interesting high level format
Slow Cloth, 4.5" pockets, 10 ft table, 2 shot foul count on the cue ball not the player , 9 ball, rack it on the spot, small break box, winner breaks, jump ok with full length play or break cue.