Ron V aiming system video and diagrams

theory and practice

Since this has gotten ridiculous and since I don't think either side would ever pay off in a bet I'll point out that the big argument here is between theory and actual practice. In theory there is a nice single point at the bridge that everything else has to rotate around if that point remains fixed. In practice that point never remains perfectly fixed when pivoting. How far away from that point is the actual pivot? Anybody's guess since the type of bridge and the firmness of the bridge are both highly variable.

I will say that I can easily "prove" either claim on a table doing the shooting myself. Dave will win if PJ is stubborn enough to bet simply because the structure of the bet involves Dave doing the shooting.

Hu
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Neither are you. You're going to:



...as you agreed, or you're going to pay me.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I tried to take the high road and give you an out. I'll post later today what my bet is. Enjoy AZB while you can.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
PM me what you want on the side.
I'm trying to get the entire $5g
Click to expand...

What?? You want to side bet with me when you haven't even committed anything to your underlying bet with Pat? Please!! Pat was clear in the language of the bet, and you have continued to mock him and parade around like you've committed to a one-sided bet. But you haven't bet anything. I'll be watching this thread with interest to see what comes after all this posturing. I honestly believe that either you don't understand the meaning of "pivot point" or, perhaps, you haven't read Pat's words carefully. You allude to pivoting around the butt-end of the cue, but to pivot around any point along the cue's length (requires that both ends of the cue move simultaneously. But Pat said: "You'll hold your stick in normal shooting position with your bridge hand on the table as usual and, without moving your bridge hand or any part of it and without removing your stick from it, leaving everything in place as if you're going to shoot a normal shot, you'll pivot your stick around a point that's somewhere other than at your bridge hand."
How are you going to pivot around the butt of the cue, or any other point along the cue's axis, when the front end can't move initially/simultaneously?
 
shankster8 said:
What?? You want to side bet with me when you haven't even committed anything to your underlying bet with Pat? Please!! Pat was clear in the language of the bet, and you have continued to mock him and parade around like you've committed to a one-sided bet. But you haven't bet anything. I'll be watching this thread with interest to see what comes after all this posturing. I honestly believe that either you don't understand the meaning of "pivot point" or, perhaps, you haven't read Pat's words carefully. You allude to pivoting around the butt-end of the cue, but to pivot around any point along the cue's length (requires that both ends of the cue move simultaneously. But Pat said: "You'll hold your stick in normal shooting position with your bridge hand on the table as usual and, without moving your bridge hand or any part of it and without removing your stick from it, leaving everything in place as if you're going to shoot a normal shot, you'll pivot your stick around a point that's somewhere other than at your bridge hand."
How are you going to pivot around the butt of the cue, or any other point along the cue's axis, when the front end can't move initially/simultaneously?
Click to expand...

I didn't post an amount because I'm trying to get all of the money. Look, I'm sorry for getting cocky last night. The body pivot is a MUCH smaller back-pivot, the bridge pivot requires a big cue swoop in the back. Money's not a problem with me, I just sold SpiderWeb Communications in December, but gettable money is where my penalties don't offset my what I'm about to win.

If you wanna bet $100 on the side, just PM me, just to help you sweat the thread. On a gentleman's note, I'm sorry I got cocky--- I was on tilt last night.
 
Right on, Spidey! I like others think you guys have only a definitional bet here. It probably ought to go to sleep, IMHO.
 
I would like to try and explain some basic concepts of “Ron’s” system of aiming. First would just like to say that some people naturally see the path of the cue ball to the object ball. This is great, but some of us mortals do not. For what ever reason we need to look at something on the object ball. I wish I could see a shot the way most professionals do , but I don’t. Systems, or just aiming at something works for me.

This system is not Ron’s. He doesn’t claim it as his. He is attempting to teach something that has been around for a while. He is just trying to teach it to anyone who would like to learn it. This ,I believe, is great. To have someone who is willing to take the time to help people enjoy the game more is wonderful. For this we need to thank Ron.

Now for an attempt to explain some basic concepts of this system.

You need to find the center of the cue ball. Use any method you like. I start by placing my tip at the bottom of the cue. The cue ball rests on the horizontal center. Next you need to find the location on the cue ball that is exactly halfway between the center of the ball and the edge of the ball. (for my explanation I will use the right side of the ball, this system is symmetrical , you use left or right depending on which way you are shooting) Ron calls this ‘between the light and the edge of the ball’. You can call it anything you like. It does not matter why Ron uses this term, just find this location on the cue ball. The next location you need to find on the cue ball AND object ball is where the right side of you stick is aligned with the right side of the ball. This is an important location for this system. If you put the right side of the cue ball, object ball, and cue stick along the rail they would all be aligned. Ron calls this 90%. Whenever Ron uses the term 90-90 he is referring to this alignment. It doesn’t matter if this is mathematically correct. It doesn’t matter why Ron uses this term. In his minds eye this is called 90.

Therefore when Ron says aim 90% on the cue ball to 90% on the object ball he is saying aim “90-90”. Then all you have to do is swivel you hips so that the tip of you cue stick is pointing at the center of the object ball. Now shoot away. For some reason, this works on all shots that are semi – straight in to half ball hits for balls that are more that 2 diamonds apart. The reason you swivel you hips instead of just you back hand is so your head stays over the stick. If you just move you back hand you are aiming blind. Your head would no longer be aligned with the shot. If the 2 balls are less than 2 diamonds apart, aim 90 on the cue ball to ‘between the center of the object ball and the edge of the ball’. Then swivel.

There are some variations of this system, but the above explanation works for about 90 percent of the shots you will make. I will explain some variations including using English in another post if anyone is interested. Also, Ron is planning on releasing a video for sale to explain the entire system.
 
I think many of us are very interested

Many thanks for a clear explanation and also emphasizing what the terminology means when Ron uses it. It really doesn't matter what the math is or what other people think it should mean, what we needed to know is what the terms meant to Ron. It made me crazy trying to learn multiple pieces of CAD software because they used the same terms and same names to mean different things. I progressed much more rapidly once I accepted that each developer had defined the terms for use in his program.

Thanks again! With Ron's efforts and you and Cleary presenting them in a clear manner on the forum understanding is starting to come.

Hu

kaznj said:
I would like to try and explain some basic concepts of ?Ron?s? system of aiming. First would just like to say that some people naturally see the path of the cue ball to the object ball. This is great, but some of us mortals do not. For what ever reason we need to look at something on the object ball. I wish I could see a shot the way most professionals do , but I don?t. Systems, or just aiming at something works for me.

This system is not Ron?s. He doesn?t claim it as his. He is attempting to teach something that has been around for a while. He is just trying to teach it to anyone who would like to learn it. This ,I believe, is great. To have someone who is willing to take the time to help people enjoy the game more is wonderful. For this we need to thank Ron.

Now for an attempt to explain some basic concepts of this system.

You need to find the center of the cue ball. Use any method you like. I start by placing my tip at the bottom of the cue. The cue ball rests on the horizontal center. Next you need to find the location on the cue ball that is exactly halfway between the center of the ball and the edge of the ball. (for my explanation I will use the right side of the ball, this system is symmetrical , you use left or right depending on which way you are shooting) Ron calls this ?between the light and the edge of the ball?. You can call it anything you like. It does not matter why Ron uses this term, just find this location on the cue ball. The next location you need to find on the cue ball AND object ball is where the right side of you stick is aligned with the right side of the ball. This is an important location for this system. If you put the right side of the cue ball, object ball, and cue stick along the rail they would all be aligned. Ron calls this 90%. Whenever Ron uses the term 90-90 he is referring to this alignment. It doesn?t matter if this is mathematically correct. It doesn?t matter why Ron uses this term. In his minds eye this is called 90.

Therefore when Ron says aim 90% on the cue ball to 90% on the object ball he is saying aim ?90-90?. Then all you have to do is swivel you hips so that the tip of you cue stick is pointing at the center of the object ball. Now shoot away. For some reason, this works on all shots that are semi ? straight in to half ball hits for balls that are more that 2 diamonds apart. The reason you swivel you hips instead of just you back hand is so your head stays over the stick. If you just move you back hand you are aiming blind. Your head would no longer be aligned with the shot. If the 2 balls are less than 2 diamonds apart, aim 90 on the cue ball to ?between the center of the object ball and the edge of the ball?. Then swivel.

There are some variations of this system, but the above explanation works for about 90 percent of the shots you will make. I will explain some variations including using English in another post if anyone is interested. Also, Ron is planning on releasing a video for sale to explain the entire system.
Click to expand...
 
Think about this...

I'm only writing you because believe it or not, I do like your posts--- you just get outta line sometimes. MANY people on here love your posts and learn a lot.

PJ, you can't win the bet. I'm writing you privately to just say something like, "I played with it and I can now see how the cue path can change through the bridge" and I'll down play it down, partially fall on the sword myself, and we'll move on as friends. I'll post a video tonight on exactly how it works.

If you're stubborn and want to pay just to see it, no problem. We'll meet in Ohio and a random poolhall and make sure AZB witnesses show up and we'll post with a respected member ahead of time because it's a LONG drive for me. We were each out of hand last night-- I shouldn't have dogged you - that was wrong of me- I'm sorry for that. It's your choice.

Dave
Click to expand...

This a PM from Dave. I posted it here because I want everything above board and visible.

Dave, I appreciate your conciliatory message and willingness to be friendly about this. I'm willing to be friendly about it too. But you made this a pissing match, very loudly, and you're going to have to make it go away on the terms you loudly insisted upon.

You can either:

1. Do what you said you could do, exactly as I described it and as you agreed.

2. Publicly pay up.

3. Publicly reneg.

By all means, let's keep it friendly. But the ball's in your court, not mine.

pj
chgo
 
This for P.J. or anybody that wants to bet...PJ, I sent you a private message, would you mind letting everyone read it...I`am surprised that you never once metiond that I fully explained the entire system to you...

And as for the "BET", Dave you do not need to raise any money to defend me I can do that very well myself, but thaks anyway...I`am a pretty big gambler and I will post $10.000 of my own money to anyone that has the heart to bet...

1- The bet is that I will swivel my hip and never will you see the bridge hand move other than " JUST THE STICK" no bridge hand adjustment...

NOW ANYBODY PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS...

AND I MEAN IT, RONV...
 
back-hand vs. hip "pivot"

RonV said:
The bet is that I will swivel my hip and never will you see the bridge hand move other than " JUST THE STICK" no bridge hand adjustment...
Click to expand...
I'm not willing to bet yet, because I still don't understand how different people are using the "pivot" terminology.

If there were an overhead camera zoomed up on just the bridge hand, what differences would you see with the bridge and cue with a back-hand pivot vs. a hip pivot? Also, would it matter if you were using a mechanical bridge vs. a hand bridge? I think the answers to these questions (along with a video demonstration) would be very useful and would eliminate the need for any "bet."

Then everybody can apologize and spread some love. :eek:

Regards,
Dave
 
Geez you guys

Holy cow batman let's get some popcorn and beer for this one!

Really guys what is all the fuss about. Someone has something they say works. You can either try and like it or try it an not like it. :slap: :bash:
 
RonV said:
This for P.J. or anybody that wants to bet...PJ, I sent you a private message, would you mind letting everyone read it...I`am surprised that you never once metiond that I fully explained the entire system to you...

And as for the "BET", Dave you do not need to raise any money to defend me I can do that very well myself, but thaks anyway...I`am a pretty big gambler and I will post $10.000 of my own money to anyone that has the heart to bet...

1- The bet is that I will swivel my hip and never will you see the bridge hand move other than " JUST THE STICK" no bridge hand adjustment...

NOW ANYBODY PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS...

AND I MEAN IT, RONV...
Click to expand...

Ron, I don't remember receiving a PM from you or ever getting a complete description of your system. If you want to post it here, that's OK with me.

As for the bet, it's a specific bet that Dave insisted on and has nothing to do with you showing us anything.

I haven't said your system doesn't work. This is about Dave's description of how it works and how pivot points work in general, not just for your system. Your system really has little to do with it, so there's no need to get excited or defend it. Peace.

pj
chgo
 
Spidey, why not show the same shot with a mechanical bridge instead of your hand, this might help clear it up. Mechanical bridge = no movement.
 
more bridge questions

jasonlaus said:
Spidey, why not show the same shot with a mechanical bridge instead of your hand, this might help clear it up. Mechanical bridge = no movement.
Click to expand...
Here are some additional questions:

Is there a fixed pivot point with a mechanical bridge but not with a hand bridge, and does it depend on whether you use a closed or open bridge, and does it depend on the orientation of the "V" created by your fingers?

Thanks to whoever might know the answers,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Here are some additional questions:

Is there a fixed pivot point with a mechanical bridge but not with a hand bridge, and does it depend on whether you use a closed or open bridge, and does it depend on the orientation of the "V" created by your fingers?

Thanks to whoever might know the answers,
Dave
Click to expand...

Finally, a good post. A mechanical bridge = zero movement. A hand bridge gives, allowing a pivot point from a position other than the bridge. With a hand bridge, I win the bet-- and that is the bet.
 
RonV said:
This for P.J. or anybody that wants to bet...PJ, I sent you a private message, would you mind letting everyone read it...I`am surprised that you never once metiond that I fully explained the entire system to you...

And as for the "BET", Dave you do not need to raise any money to defend me I can do that very well myself, but thaks anyway...I`am a pretty big gambler and I will post $10.000 of my own money to anyone that has the heart to bet...

1- The bet is that I will swivel my hip and never will you see the bridge hand move other than " JUST THE STICK" no bridge hand adjustment...

NOW ANYBODY PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS...

AND I MEAN IT, RONV...
Click to expand...

Ron,
Are you saying you can play two shots, one missing the OB and the other hitting it (say somewhere close to 3/4 ball), hitting center CB and with all parts of the bridge hand in the exact same position?

This assumes no sideways swooping, no bent or bending of cue.

Colin
 
I think this is getting a little out of hand. All of this is really just steering people away from the system when All RonV and myself wanted to do was spread the word and help people WHO NEED IT.

Not everyone needs a system to aim. Some people see it better than others. I personally, DON'T need a system. I can visualize where I hit the ball without a system. There are some shots I use it, more or less to double check myself. Mainly long cut shots or very close cutshots. But either way, I can tell you first hand, THIS WORKS. And if you NEED IT, USE IT. But it has to work FOR YOU! Thats the key. Not every system is for everybody. Some people dont like moving their body... thats fine! Find another way to pocket the ball.

Its just like basic math. 8-3=5. Some people need to use their fingers. Some people need a calculator. Some people need 8 apples. Some people just dont know. And some, JUST KNOW. If you already know 8-3... keep your hands in your pocket and the calculator in the desk. Same is true with aiming. (yes I understand pocketing balls is a little more difficult that 8-3, its just an example of why people use systems and why they use the system they use.)

What Im trying to say is, an aiming system is just a means to an end. Step 1. KNOWING YOUR TARGET. Step 2. HITTING YOUR TARGET. Two different things. Ron is showing 1 of the easiest ways to FIND YOUR TARGET for those you cannot. Hitting it, is a whole different ball game. Thats your stroke. If your stroke is screwed up, you might as well wear a blind fold.

The point is, I went to Ron V to help him out. To help anyone who wanted to know this system out. To help anyone who NEEDS a system out. Its not for everybody, but Ill bet every penny I own that IT WORKS.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This a PM from Dave. I posted it here because I want everything above board and visible.

Dave, I appreciate your conciliatory message and willingness to be friendly about this. I'm willing to be friendly about it too. But you made this a pissing match, very loudly, and you're going to have to make it go away on the terms you loudly insisted upon.

You can either:

1. Do what you said you could do, exactly as I described it and as you agreed.

2. Publicly pay up.

3. Publicly reneg.

By all means, let's keep it friendly. But the ball's in your court, not mine.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

You really are a piece of work. I tried to let you know in private you can't win and tried to be a man about this so we could walk away quietly. I apologized for making this a pissing match - but you instigated me with your "matter of fact" posts that weren't fact at all.

My bet is $1000.00, plus your playing cue against mine (has to be worth over $1000--- I play with a lambros) and perma-ban from AZ. With your permission, I'd like the option to raise it to 5 if I can get it - up to the day of the duel. Let me know where and when so I can maneuver around work and let's do it. We should let TAR escrow the money ahead of time - we each bring our cue.

I'm beside myself. In my heart this morning, I was honestly trying to take a high road in private with you. Anyways, it is what it is. Where are we meeting and when....

Dave
 
Although a bit confusing, I would love to spend some time with Ron to figure this out. Watching a video is a tough way to get through my thick skull.

I played around with what I thought I understood, last night but am obviously still a bit confused. Thank you, Cleary, for taking the time to edit and shoot the video. Thanks to RV for sharing his knowledge.

Peace
 
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