Shame Shame on you Frankie Hernandez, The other side of the story.

Sweet Marissa said:
I don't understand why this is still an issue. It was settled; José settled it at the tournament. José Burgos is known to be a great tour director. People want to point the finger at him for being in charge. Is a store manager responsible when an employee does something wrong? Yes and no... He can't control someone else's actions, but he rectified the situation. What more can one expect?


Hi,
In common Law,there is a legal principle called `Respondeat Superior`.It is explained as :`Master is responsible for servant`s actions`.This principle can be applied to the employment related issues and when it is applied the Superior becomes a responsible party for subordinate`s actions. :cool:
 
John...What do you think of this law that we have here in Missouri? You and me go into a liquor store. You are completely unaware as I pull out a gun and shoot & kill the guy behind the counter. I take the money & we leave the store. Guess what---you are guilty by association & can be tried for murder. They can stretch this & this has been done in a pretty famous case. Me & you drive up to a motel. You stay in the car, I go into a motel room and shoot & kill someone. You might claim you never knew it happened but they arrest you and put you also on trial for murder.
 
vagabond said:
Hi,
In common Law,there is a legal principle called `Respondeat Superior`.It is explained as :`Master is responsible for servant`s actions`.This principle can be applied to the employment related issues and when it is applied the Superior becomes a responsible party for subordinate`s actions. :cool:
I asked, is a store manager responsible when an employee does something wrong? I said yes and no... He can't control someone else's actions, but he rectified the situation.

As soon as he found out what happened, he changed the draw back, and from what I hear, this aide will no longer be assisting in the tournaments. He didn't know what the aide was doing, but he handled it immediately and with professionalism, thus taking (and accepting) responsibility for what had transpired.
 
I've just finished reading this thread, whew! It seems to me that Jose partially did the right thing, i.e., he rectified the problem as far as we know. However, he didn't finish the job. As Blackjack has been saying, Jose probably didn't finish resolving the issue. He should have taken Frankie and the assistant off to the side somewhere for about 5 minutes and resolved the situation to Frankie's satisfaction, or at least to whatever extent possible. That assistant should have been straightened out regarding changing who plays who. Then, if Frankie persisted in being a jerk, Jose should have approached him and asked him out loud if there was anything else that he could think of that he should have done that he hadn't already done. It sounds like what happened is Jose simply told the assistant that he shouldn't have done that and made the change, said he was sorry to Frankie and then just moved on. Doesn't sound like Frankie was ready to move on yet. Many pool players that I've met would have had a similar reaction as Frankie, at least for a little while.
 
I notice a lot of people on this thread comparing this to stores or resturants.
Given these analogies lets all be clear....this pool player IS NOT THE CUSTOMER.
He is more like the pepsi distributor.....he caused a ruckus in the store or resturant because a cashier f$@&ed up. The cashier admitted the mistake and was fired,the situation was corrected. The dumbass pepsi distributor kept making a rukus disturbing the manager AND THE PAYING CUSTOMERS.
The manager decided he no longer wished to deal in any way shape or form with that distributor.The pepsi distributor can sell his product to another resturant. The manager is under no obligation to deal with a abusive supplier.
The CUSTOMERS MAY OR MAY NOT RETURN OR DRINK PEPSI.

Just my take on your analogies.

T
 
Tbeaux said:
I notice a lot of people on this thread comparing this to stores or resturants.
Given these analogies lets all be clear....this pool player IS NOT THE CUSTOMER.
He is more like the pepsi distributor.....he caused a ruckus in the store or resturant because a cashier f$@&ed up. The cashier admitted the mistake and was fired,the situation was corrected. The dumbass pepsi distributor kept making a rukus disturbing the manager AND THE PAYING CUSTOMERS.
The manager decided he no longer wished to deal in any way shape or form with that distributor.The pepsi distributor can sell his product to another resturant. The manager is under no obligation to deal with a abusive supplier.
The CUSTOMERS MAY OR MAY NOT RETURN OR DRINK PEPSI.

Just my take on your analogies.

T


this sounds more correct than any other analogy i've read.
 
Backpocket,

I brought up Jonathan's name because he is widely regarded as having more credibility than Frankie, and he was an impartial witness to everything. He saw the original draw, and then the doctored one. If Frankie were the only witness to anything, I might question it too. I get along with him but I have seen some ludicrous behavior from him, as I'm sure many have.

If I were there, the minute this all came out, I'd have demanded my money back unless this assistant was immediately and publicly fired. Not doing so is akin to Jose admitting he had a part in it. As a manager, there are certain things you can let slide with a private rebuking, and certain things that are so major you cannot. THIS IS A MAJOR ISSUE. If Jose had fired him immediately, there would have been no problem. If I were running a tournament and my assistant did this, holy christ, I might call the police on HIM!

Also, I am going to put this as tactfully as I can, but the pro that Frankie was originally slated to play is not known as one of the top players on the tour. He is a very good player to be sure but I would imagine he himself would tell you he is a serious underdog to Frankie. He is also not a "name" player in 9-ball. The assistant's excuse that he didn't want two pro players playing each other (in light of this) is nothing but complete and total crap. Had Frankie been slated to play Delicious in the first round, say, and then he changed it, at least his excuse would be plausible. Still an offense punishable by the loss of his job, but the excuse would at least make sense.

I do not like that I had to write the above, because I truly like the player in question and respect his game as well. He's pulled off some unbelievable wins against top, top players. But he's not the kind of player that the TD would have a vested interest in separating for the spectators.

So it's a bullshit excuse, and that leaves us with the question of why was it done, if not for the stated reason?

To clarify the exact situation for those that are still confused... Frankie was originally scheduled to play Player A (who I speak about above). He looked at his draw and felt positive he would make it at least to the final 4 players on the winner's side - he had a very easy bracket (his words, not mine). Next thing he knows, he's NOT playing this player and he's no longer in the weak bracket - he's playing Carmen Lombardo, and his next match after that (if he wins) would have been Mike Davis, one of the top tour players. Once he found out about Carmen, that's when the fixed draw was discovered and then corrected.

- Steve
 
I can't figure out why there are 5 pages on this thread. 5 pages of nothing new. Just more the same...

Sheister running a tournament and a thug pool player making an ass of himself.

Same story, different day.
 
Tbeaux said:
I notice a lot of people on this thread comparing this to stores or resturants.
Given these analogies lets all be clear....this pool player IS NOT THE CUSTOMER.
He is more like the pepsi distributor.....he caused a ruckus in the store or resturant because a cashier f$@&ed up. The cashier admitted the mistake and was fired,the situation was corrected. The dumbass pepsi distributor kept making a rukus disturbing the manager AND THE PAYING CUSTOMERS.
The manager decided he no longer wished to deal in any way shape or form with that distributor.The pepsi distributor can sell his product to another resturant. The manager is under no obligation to deal with a abusive supplier.
The CUSTOMERS MAY OR MAY NOT RETURN OR DRINK PEPSI.

Just my take on your analogies.

T

I disagree with your analogy ;). In your version, there is no relationship between the distributor and the "paying customers". This is not the case in the tournament. What the cashier did, in screwing the distributor, ALSO affects all the other people in the restaurant. I am not sure how your analogy could fit that in, but that is the main point as far as I see it.

When you are a part of a tournament that is doing this, then people that you entrusted with your money had no respect for you OR for your money. What this guy did affected EVERYONE. If nobody said anything, Carmen Lombardo would have probably lost to Frankie in the first round WHEN HE WASN'T EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYING HIM.

Everyone was affected by this.

- Steve
 
Nit said:
I can't figure out why there are 5 pages on this thread. 5 pages of nothing new. Just more the same...

Sheister running a tournament and a thug pool player making an ass of himself.

Same story, different day.

i take that back...i agree more with YOU :):D:):D
 
onepocketchump said:
You don't disrupt the tournament continually. If the situation was fixed then it was a NON-ISSUE at that point. How Jose' deals with his assistants is his problem. It could have been an honest mistake on the part of the guy doing the draw, it could have been a deliberate move as well. The only thing is that it was DETECTED and FIXED so there is NO NEED to DISRUPT the tournament for the REST of the players. If Frankie has problems with Jose or Jose's people then the proper person to take it up with in PRIVATE is Jose'. If there is then NO RESOLUTION then Frankie can protest however he wants to with the understanding that if his protests disrupt the tournament then he may have to protest elsewhere.

John
I agree with John, as well... But I also understand how Frankie felt he could not trust the integrity of his <employer>, since it's a source of income. I have been in Frankie's shoes before, but it was not fixed and I still won the tournament! :D The thing is that it had happened to me before and I let it disrupt my focus. However, I knew what to do the second time around. One thing is certain; it was no MISTAKE!
 
onepocketchump said:
For you and some others to automatically assume crookedness is nothing but mean-spirited condemnation.
John

Yeah, you should f*cking talk. LOL!! But I digress...

If the tournament was done with computer software, what's another 15 minutes to do another draw and make out a new chart. Then again, you can't please everyone. Some will complain and some won't. If Jose made sure that Frankie was placed back into his original slot, so be it. A mistake was made and lessons were learned.

Barbara
 
Nit said:
I can't figure out why there are 5 pages on this thread. 5 pages of nothing new. Just more the same...

Sheister running a tournament and a thug pool player making an ass of himself.

Same story, different day.

Well said.
 
watchez said:
Barbara...your post confuses me. Please clear the air.


Wow, Johnny Boy has a lot to say about how a Tour is run. He should learn about the "C" word. Begins with C. Do I have an O and a L and -L and a U and a S and a I and a O oops and a N to re-work a finish?

Barbara
 
Barbara said:
Wow, Johnny Boy has a lot to say about how a Tour is run. He should learn about the "C" word. Begins with C. Do I have an O and a L and -L and a U and a S and a I and a O oops and a N to re-work a finish?

Barbara

Hey Barbara,

Why do these "C" words seem to follow you wherever you go? :D
 
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