SJM at the 2023 Derby City Catastrophe

[AtLarge]

... I'd wager you could blame most of this year's woes on the smaller pocket sizes. Would be really interested to see an average match time this year vs previous years. Especially in banks.

I post average match times in my stats threads. Of course, that is for only the matches streamed by Accu-Stats, with time clocks, rather than for the matches on the outer tables. But here is info from those threads.

10-Ball -- The average match time was a few minutes less this year than in any of the prior 6 years (that's as far back as I looked just now.)

Banks -- Only semifinal and final matches have been shown in recent years, too few to give any meaningful yearly averages. But in 2023, the 3 sets (2 in the finals) were 60, 36, and 63 minutes (avg. 53). The average of the semifinal and final matches for the prior 6 years (12 matches) was 57 minutes.

One-Pocket -- The average match time this year was much higher than in any of the prior 4 years (as far back as my 1P threads go). This was caused by 4 of the 18 streamed matches this year running over 2½ hours (versus none of that length the previous 3 years and 2 of that length 4 years ago).

9-Ball -- The average match length this year tied for lowest in the past 7 years. But the match loser won 2 or fewer games in 6 of the 13 streamed matches this year, and the average number of games per match was the lowest in the past 7 years.

 

[sjm]

I post average match times in my stats threads. Of course, that is for only the matches streamed by Accu-Stats, with time clocks, rather than for the matches on the outer tables. But here is info from those threads.

10-Ball -- The average match time was a few minutes less this year than in any of the prior 6 years (that's as far back as I looked just now.)

Banks -- Only semifinal and final matches have been shown in recent years, too few to give any meaningful yearly averages. But in 2023, the 3 sets (2 in the finals) were 60, 36, and 63 minutes (avg. 53). The average of the semifinal and final matches for the prior 6 years (12 matches) was 57 minutes.

One-Pocket -- The average match time this year was much higher than in any of the prior 4 years (as far back as my 1P threads go). This was caused by 4 of the 18 streamed matches this year running over 2½ hours (versus none of that length the previous 3 years and 2 of that length 4 years ago).

9-Ball -- The average match length this year tied for lowest in the past 7 years.

Great post. Thanks. Of course, the pockets are not too tight for the elite, and it's mostly the elite who play on the stream table. In addition, it's only on the stream table where a shot clock is in use. Hence, the speed of matches on the stream table offers next to no information about the typical speed of play at the Derby.

On the approximately 40 outer tables, it had to be seen to be believed and, as others have noted, especially in bank pool. When two 600 Fargos get stuck in one of those safety battles where all the balls are hanging over pockets, where one ball is gradually developed and spotted, it can, and often does, take an eternity for a rack to end. Asking Fargo 600s, and the many who are below that, to bank balls into tight pockets, is asking too much. One pocket also crawled along as the less elite players missed countless shots.

Super tight equipment on the outer tables was a giant mistake.

 

[maha]

if its for amateurs why have pockets so tight no amateur can win any matches unless he is against another.

they all know who are the slow players. so have time clocks on slow tournaments, and or, tell each of the slow players they can't rebuy.
and tell them if they play too slow they will be disqualified after two warnings. or don't even let them enter.

if you run a business you dont let a bad customer ruin your business you barr them.

 

[jasonlaus]

After 5 safeties and every safety after spot a ball(closest to the head rail) that should speed it up

 

[lfigueroa]

You guys need to chill on the criticism of this event. It’s not Derby’s fault that matchroom scheduled the world championship 60 days ago.

Everything would have been fine if they would have just played on Sunday.

DO NOT LIMIT THE FIELD. Derby was awesome this year. We had record turn out, multiple streams, outstanding play, legends going deep. It was awesome.

Other than the debacle on the last day, everything was awesome and exactly how it’s supposed to be at Derby. A gambling shitshow 24/7 for 10 days straight!!!

The tournament organizers learned a few things about wifi, tight pockets, and schedule padding. Let them adjust and correct those particular items! DO NOT LIMIT THE FIELD.

Oh, and bad food? It’s a hotel dude. It’s not supposed to have awesome food.

I believe they are contractually obligated to clear out all those tables Sunday — and of course there is the not so small matter of plane tickets for many of the players and spectators.

Don’t limit the fields and don’t increase the number of available tables and it will be Groundhog Day, again.

And no, clearly, from Stu’s post it was not the way it has been nor the way it should be. Having been to 20+ Derby's I can vouch for this.

So exactly how many iterations of this event are the players and spectators suppose to allow for them to get their act together on issues such as Wi-Fi and scheduling? They’ve been at the current venue, with its attendant issues, for over 10 years.

As to the food, OK, sure. Some guys are fine with eating beef jerky and granola bars in their room. I suppose you can go the extra step and bring in the hot plate and rice cooker. But, it is a hotel/casino and I feel it’s a reasonable expectation, when the venue is miles from other options, they provide decent vitels. I’ve been lucky enough to have traveled plenty in my life and I’d venture to say that the cheapest hotel/casino in Reno offers better food options than what’s been available to us at this venue since they built out the casino and did away with the sports bar, buffet, Asian sit down, and ice cream shop, dude.

Lou Figueroa

 

[rossaroni]

You guys need to chill on the criticism of this event. It’s not Derby’s fault that matchroom scheduled the world championship 60 days ago.

Everything would have been fine if they would have just played on Sunday.

DO NOT LIMIT THE FIELD. Derby was awesome this year. We had record turn out, multiple streams, outstanding play, legends going deep. It was awesome.

Other than the debacle on the last day, everything was awesome and exactly how it’s supposed to be at Derby. A gambling shitshow 24/7 for 10 days straight!!!

The tournament organizers learned a few things about wifi, tight pockets, and schedule padding. Let them adjust and correct those particular items! DO NOT LIMIT THE FIELD.

Oh, and bad food? It’s a hotel dude. It’s not supposed to have awesome food.

I agree with most of your post, but the food situation. Quality wise, I have no huge complaints. Not the best, not the worst.

The food options are not good however. They may be having a hard time finding employees or something….I really do not know. Either way, there is no way you should have to wait in line for 30-40 minutes for the grill. And it seemed like during the week, the grill was the only option after 8pm.

I am guessing the cantina and pizza places are shut down for good. Just having the pizza place open for a few hours a day would have really cut down on the line at the grill, imo. Just making a handful of pizzas, and throwing them under a heat lamp would have made a difference. The pizza might not have been the best, but most people are complaining about the food anyway.

 

[iusedtoberich]

What were the food choices at the grill? Burgers and cheesestakes and such? Did they have fish on the grill like at the middle of the buffet restaurant (that I take is closed?)

 

[rossaroni]

What were the food choices at the grill? Burgers and cheesestakes and such? Did they have fish on the grill like at the middle of the buffet restaurant (that I take is closed?)

Yeah, burgers, cheesestakes, chicken tenders, chicken sandwich, etc. Also some pre made salads and wraps, desserts. I’m not sure about fish.

Yeah, they have no buffet there anymore.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Yeah, burgers, cheesestakes, chicken tenders, chicken sandwich, etc. Also some pre made salads and wraps, desserts. I’m not sure about fish.

Yeah, they have no buffet there anymore.

Ok, thanks. I can survive on that if I ever go again 2018 was my last year.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I am really sorry to read such a bad review of the DCC, because I really, really loved my trips to the Derby in 2009 and 2010. Went back and read my threads from those trips, and no doubt it was awesome.

Hope the DCC will bounce back, cause for an amateur the DCC was heaven.

I have to admit though, that as a fan watching the PPV/Accustats, it was not a good experience. I haven't followed pool for a lot of years, but bought the stream this year because I wanted to watch the one-pocket tournament. I figured that the schedule would fit ok with my calendar, but because of the delays it went all wrong and I missed the final rounds of one-pocket. I am glad though that I got to watch some of Efren's matches! What a guy!

As a fan I do hope the staff reads these comments and threads from this year, and make changes and improve. It would be a big loss for the poolworld if the DCC goes from being on everyone's bucket list, to being a tournament that used to be awesome but is not anymore.

 

[Dave714]

Who the hell is SJM, I have zero interest hearing his opinions on a anything pool related. He's a clown get him off here.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Who the hell is SJM, I have zero interest hearing his opinions on a anything pool related. He's a clown get him off here.

If you have zero interest then just don't click on the thread and read it.

 

[jay helfert]

R Most of the europeans and taiwanese players did not show up

They were focused on being prepared for the WPC starting two days later! Playing at DCC until the bitter end and then flying in late to Poland may prove to be detrimental to players like Shane, Filler and Fedor. That said Fedor and Filler are young and may recover quicker from the duress at DCC.

 

[Dave714]

If you have zero interest then just don't click on the thread and read it.

Not interested in SAM'S opinion at all!!!

 

[jay helfert]

Obviously Caesars wouldn't let a food truck in the parking lot but you'd think there's somewhere nearby where some enterprising taco or burger truck owner could park for a few days and make $$$$$.

There are a couple of large parking areas at nearby businesses within walking distance. Time for some enterprising soul to make a deal.

 

[Fatboy]

You guys need to chill on the criticism of this event. It’s not Derby’s fault that matchroom scheduled the world championship 60 days ago.

Everything would have been fine if they would have just played on Sunday.

DO NOT LIMIT THE FIELD. Derby was awesome this year. We had record turn out, multiple streams, outstanding play, legends going deep. It was awesome.

Other than the debacle on the last day, everything was awesome and exactly how it’s supposed to be at Derby. A gambling shitshow 24/7 for 10 days straight!!!

The tournament organizers learned a few things about wifi, tight pockets, and schedule padding. Let them adjust and correct those particular items! DO NOT LIMIT THE FIELD.

Oh, and bad food? It’s a hotel dude. It’s not supposed to have awesome food.

It should have some food.

 

[jay helfert]

What's the purpose of the buyback system? Why not just make it a double elimination tournament at 2x the entry fee?

$$$

 

[Fatboy]

What's the purpose of the buyback system? Why not just make it a double elimination tournament at 2x the entry fee?

Buy back $ is not part of the prize pool.

It’s profit.

That’s why

 

[Fatboy]

Yeah, burgers, cheesestakes, chicken tenders, chicken sandwich, etc. Also some pre made salads and wraps, desserts. I’m not sure about fish.

Yeah, they have no buffet there anymore.

Ice cream shop gone too

 

[easy-e]

Who the hell is SJM, I have zero interest hearing his opinions on a anything pool related. He's a clown get him off here.

Yet here you are... wanting us to hear your opinion. I've never met SJM, but I look forward to reading his reports from all of the tournaments he attends. He is living my dream retirement life! I do hope to meet him someday, I'd love to pick his brain fan-to-fan.