Stolen cue!!! Barry Stewart has my cue.

[IamCalvin06]

Omg

Ahhh! I am originally from n.augusta! I used to know all of the players in that area. Unfortunately I cannot be of any help bc idk a Barry.

Sorry to hear about this. Barry if ur out there ur putting our pool community to shame! Shame on you!

 

[SterlingArcher]

Thanks. I do remember that and it's one of the reasons I say that I have been fortunate in the few instances that this has happened.

The phrase "possession is 9/10ths of the law" is actually relevant here because it literally means that the one who has possession is in the stronger position in a dispute. So without good-hearted and honest customers like yourself folks like me would be practically unable to recover property or compensation for the cases we mistakenly ship to the wrong place.

This is the meaning of the phrase:

"The saying “possession is nine points of the law” is an old common law precept that means one who has physical control or possession over the property is clearly at an advantage or is in a better possession than a person who has no possession over the property. Even if a person is the rightful owner of the property but has no possession over it, the person who is in possession will be in a better position should the property ever be subject to challenge. This is especially true with adverse possession. However mere possession alone does not grant the possessor rights in the property superior to those of the actual owner. This adage “possession is nine tenths of the law” is not a law but a logical rule of force that has been recognized across ages.

In re Garza, 984 S.W.2d 344, 347 (Tex. App. 1998), Texas court has held that “Despite the old saying that "possession is 9/10ths of the law," mere possession and whatever right to the property that comes with mere possession does not grant the possessor rights in the property superior to those of the actual owner. J. CRIBBET, PRINCIPLES OF THE LAW OF PROPERTY 12-13 (1962); R. BOYER, SURVEY OF THE LAW OF PROPERTY 679-80 (1981). In other words, there is a hierarchy of ownership, as reflected both in the common law and § 1.07(35)(a) of the Penal Code. One in possession of chattel has a greater right to it than one who lacks both possession and title. Yet, one who has title maintains a greater right over the chattel than 1) one who simply has possession and 2) one who has neither possession nor claim of ownership. Id. Indeed, it can be said that the title owner has the greatest rights to the property. With that greatest right comes the power to negate the authority of those with lesser right. Similarly, those who stand in the lesser position lack the power to override or negate the rights of the title owner.”

So maybe cues should be titled somehow? No matter what I simply cannot accept that it's this easy to essentially steal a cue (no reflection on the current participants). I mean what if you sell a $20,000 cue and mistype the address by one digit and it gets delivered to the house next door? I just can't imagine that this simple mistake allows the receiver to simply keep the cue.

Its kinda the same as in a criminal case "innocent until proven guilty." If you are charged with a crime, the burden of proof rests with the state or federal government.(whichever brings the charges) You could exercise your right to remain silent the entire time during the trial, as you don't have to prove anything. (it wouldn't be wise, but you get the idea) The prosecution has to do all the proving.

Same thing with the whole "possession is 9/10ths of the law." The person who has possession can just sit there and keep his mouth shut. The plaintiff is the one who has to prove the property in fact belongs to them and not to the person in possession. This is why titles give such and upper hand.

The cue basically does have a "title." The shipper can show he was supposed to send a bolt to this person, and the cue to the other, but he got them confused. He can show the buyer's receipt for the cue, pictures, and even call on the buyer as a witness. This would be relatively the same as having a title. Again, this would all have to go down in civil court. The police likely wouldn't give a rat's ass about the cue, since the recipient is just going to show them the box with the label shipped to him.

A lot of times, the "legal" way isn't always the fastest or the best, as with a case like this.

 

[SterlingArcher]

I disagree.

I'm guessing:

Theft.
Trespass to chattel.
Conversion.

Mistake is not a defense.

But I'm not a lawyer. Is Sterling?

He can probably pursue chattels and conversion civily. The confusion is if the recipient has committed a criminal offense. I didn't check, is SC a common law state?

His defense would simply be that he was sent unsolicited merchandise, which federally is his to keep. This would likely not hold up in a civil case, but would definitely keep the police from knocking down his door.

And no, I'm not an attorney, though I have a pre-law undergrad, and 10 years in L.E. (nothing I say should be used until you consult an attorney who specializes in something like this.)

 

[blah blah]

well if it's just criminal, the state will have to pursue it and dude still gets nothing, right?

dude's real recovery is civil.

 

[SterlingArcher]

well if it's just criminal, the state will have to pursue it and dude still gets nothing, right?

dude's real recovery is civil.

Basically yes. If there was anything criminal about it, the police would likely knock on the door, talk to him, and tell him to send it back or they'll be back with a warrant and charges. Especially something like this which is in the grey area at best criminally, they would try to resolve simply and quickly. That's why my very first suggestion to the OP was to call local authorities. If they thought there was something criminal, they could just do a stop and knock to ask some questions which usually scares people enough to do the right thing.

Now say for example if he sold the cue, and there was a criminal violation. He would be prosecuted and found guilty, after which the OP would have to file suit and obtain a judgement for restitution. Sometimes if a defendent enters a guilty plea, part of their "deal" will involve restitution already. If he didn't sell the cue and the police obtained possesion, they would normally return the cue to the owner. After how long and such would be on policy and state regulations, as the defendent could appeal and such.

 

[SloMoHolic]

No hard feelings at all. Its an interesting topic.

Cool. It is interesting, and I've always enjoyed learning about these types of situations.

If I may, in jest, alter your subsequent paragraph...

This is why being a pool player is a profession. There are endless amounts of different things involving technique and strategy. The average person really has no idea how to play pro-level pool. They mainly just give their own opinion or what they've been told by other people.

Cheers! Thanks for your contributions to this thread.

-Blake

 

[JB Cases]

Pretty sure a call to a lawyer and to the AG's office in the state where the item was received would help the shipper here. I'd call the police as well simply because if the receiver has actually acknowledged receipt of an item that is not his then perhaps that is criminal.

In any event this whole story shouldn't even be on here. It's nuts that Scott Gracio, who is dealing with some major health issues with his wife's lung transplant has to deal with this crap as well.

Even if it was a joke on the receiver's part this is a really bad time to make such a joke.

 

[poolchady]

unless you could prove that the value of the cue exceeds 7K, it's what they called "small claimed" cases. You will have to contact with the local authority and normally it's time consuming and useless.

 

[Jive]

In any event this whole story shouldn't even be on here. It's nuts that Scott Gracio, who is dealing with some major health issues with his wife's lung transplant has to deal with this crap as well.

Even if it was a joke on the receiver's part this is a really bad time to make such a joke.

This part I completely agree with!! You'd have to be quite a piece of $hit to pull this off considering the situation!

 

[easy-e]

He can probably pursue chattels and conversion civily. The confusion is if the recipient has committed a criminal offense. I didn't check, is SC a common law state?

His defense would simply be that he was sent unsolicited merchandise, which federally is his to keep. This would likely not hold up in a civil case, but would definitely keep the police from knocking down his door.

And no, I'm not an attorney, though I have a pre-law undergrad, and 10 years in L.E. (nothing I say should be used until you consult an attorney who specializes in something like this.)

Don't be modest. You are also the #1 agent at ISIS.

 

[Palmerfan]

$$

unless you could prove that the value of the cue exceeds 7K, it's what they called "small claimed" cases. You will have to contact with the local authority and normally it's time consuming and useless.

Also if a lawyer is needed...considering a lawyer would probably demand a retainer, the cost might outweigh the benefit of getting the cue back.

 

[stumpie71]

He can probably pursue chattels and conversion civily. The confusion is if the recipient has committed a criminal offense. I didn't check, is SC a common law state?

His defense would simply be that he was sent unsolicited merchandise, which federally is his to keep. This would likely not hold up in a civil case, but would definitely keep the police from knocking down his door.

And no, I'm not an attorney, though I have a pre-law undergrad, and 10 years in L.E. (nothing I say should be used until you consult an attorney who specializes in something like this.)

I agree with most of what you have been posting, being that it was sent with the recipients name, it will be difficult to prove a criminal offense has taken place. It's a sad situation no doubt. Scott would need some tangible evidence other than his word or text messages stating "the cue"was sent in error. As you have stated the " burden of proof " is on the shipper at this time. If a receipt or a detailed invoice has been included in the box with the owners name on it, then Scott might have something for the police to use.

Hopefully this will be resolved, however I doubt it will be.

 

[stumpie71]

Pretty sure a call to a lawyer and to the AG's office in the state where the item was received would help the shipper here. I'd call the police as well simply because if the receiver has actually acknowledged receipt of an item that is not his then perhaps that is criminal.

In any event this whole story shouldn't even be on here. It's nuts that Scott Gracio, who is dealing with some major health issues with his wife's lung transplant has to deal with this crap as well.

Even if it was a joke on the receiver's part this is a really bad time to make such a joke.

Being that his name is on the shipping label, it will be an uphill battle to prove a criminal act and the cue wasn't his to receive.

 

[Dirtbmw20]

Scott....... Please check your PM's.

 

[Banks]

Being that his name is on the shipping label, it will be an uphill battle to prove a criminal act and the cue wasn't his to receive.

I disagree. It isn't like he's being shipped random things that he normally has no business with. He was misshipped a cue from somebody that he's done business with in the past. He'd have a hard time trying to play it off like he didn't know or that he doesn't understand how that works, while at the same time attempting to claim ownership. There's a reason that, when turning found items into the police, you must wait a specified period before being able to claim ownership. Blah blah blah, possession is 9/10ths of the law, but it's that other 10% that can kick yer butt.

 

[Manoman2444]

In our state it would be "Failure To Make Required Disposition of Property".

 

[imissedthe9]

Sooooo.... Are you going to send him his weight bolt?

 

[cuechick]

I haven't ready all this thread but my wife is an attorney and here is what we would do..

step 1) Document all efforts to date to contact the recipient

step 2) send him a letter via certified mail so you can prove receipt - in the letter make it very professional. I apologize for any inconvenience however I expect the return of my property. I will be happy to compensate you for shipping and the inconvenience. Please contact me at xxx-xxx-xxxx to arrange to return the cue. Please note that failure to respond to this letter within 5 days of receipt will result in further action.

step 3) if he doesn't respond file a police report - doesn't matter if it technically against the law or not - call and see if they will let you file a report anyway. If they will take a report it becomes another piece of information to use against the recipient.

step 4) get a copy of the police report - send the recipient a copy and notify him that failure to respond will result in further action.

step 5) if he still does not respond get an attorney to write a letter on your behalf stating your case against him, your evidence, your demand for action and your intent to file suit if action is not taken. Find someone in the same city where the recipient lives to write the letter - this person could represent you in court without you having to attend and in the letter the lawyer could state that they intend to represent you in the matter. Also make sure the lawyer clearly states that you intend to sue for the cue as well as your costs in the matter.

step 6) file suit

step 7) call the Judge Judy show and see if she will take your case so we can all watch!

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I guess we'll nominate you for the most helpful poster of the year Award.

Apparently you figure its a joke to get ripped for a cue.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

I was on The People's Court tv show 7 or 8 years ago over a classic Corvette sale that a guy tried to stick me on.

After filing a small claims action at my local court, maybe 3 weeks later I received a call from a People's Court producer asking if I'd be interested in having my case heard on their show.

They explained the advantages, not the least of which was that if you win your case, it's actually them who pays you and they pay in full within a couple of weeks after hearing your case. This compared to if you prevail in a civil case, the court may well approve a payment plan based on the paying party's financial situation and, even then, the loser can jerk you around possibly causing you to have to go back to court asking that they compel them to pay you.

Other advantages were that the show pays for your transportation there (NYC) and back home, all meals, and they even set me up in a nice hotel room just a few blocks from their studios in Manhattan.

It provides some good drama on these tv court shows how they make it look like when they order someone to pay, that the money will be coming from that person. The fact that the tv show is paying the judgements and all expenses related to attending is a big inducement for all parties involved. There were even a couple of weenies in the 'green room' who didn't have the sense to wear something appropriate for tv and so the producers sent out for button-down shirts for them.

Whether or not something like this would be a good option for the op here, I couldn't say. You can certainly call these shows to discuss it, even without filing a small claims case.

And, oh yeah, I did win the nearly $4k that I was out.

Judge Marilyn Milian: "I've been doing this for quite a while now and I have never seen anyone better prepared than you."

Don't mess with the Chicken. :wink:

GL Mr. Gracio.

best,
brian kc