SVB is the best player on earth

But Shane has won it twice with all these players you mentioned here, so I can't see that making much of a difference. He goes to the philipines and gambles with every single filipino that will stand up and play!! It's amazing you belittle his play with all of his accomplishments. In fact I find it quite hysterical:-). It sounds to me like you might have lost a lot of money betting against him. I can't figure anything else out. That was his 3rd US Open win man, LOL:-)
 
But Shane has won it twice with all these players you mentioned here, so I can't see that making much of a difference. He goes to the philipines and gambles with every single filipino that will stand up and play!! It's amazing you belittle his play with all of his accomplishments. In fact I find it quite hysterical:-). It sounds to me like you might have lost a lot of money betting against him. I can't figure anything else out. That was his 3rd US Open win man, LOL:-)

Adapted from another post of mine in a different thread .....

The US Open just completed did not have a world championship quality field.

The top four Fillipinos were not there (Orcullo, Biado, Pagulayan, Bustamante) and the fifth best Fillipino reached the final. Ko Pin Yi and Wu Jiaqing sat it out and so did JL Chang. About half of the top fifteen players in the world weren't there. Finally, three of the top four finishers from last year's US Open were absent.

The US Open 10-ball event at the Rio in July had a way, way, way, way, way, stronger field than the US Open 9-ball event just completed. Rodney Morris' win over that field is far more impressive than Shane's win this past weekend.

To be the best, you have to beat the best fields, and Shane is rarely winning when all the top internationals show up. One day he will, but until then, he is just one of the big three, along with Appleton and Orcullo.

But Shane has won it twice with all these players you mentioned here, so I can't see that making much of a difference. He goes to the philipines and gambles with every single filipino that will stand up and play!! It's amazing you belittle his play with all of his accomplishments. In fact I find it quite hysterical:-). It sounds to me like you might have lost a lot of money betting against him. I can't figure anything else out. That was his 3rd US Open win man, LOL:-)
 
But Shane has won it twice with all these players you mentioned here, so I can't see that making much of a difference. He goes to the philipines and gambles with every single filipino that will stand up and play!! It's amazing you belittle his play with all of his accomplishments. In fact I find it quite hysterical:-). It sounds to me like you might have lost a lot of money betting against him. I can't figure anything else out. That was his 3rd US Open win man, LOL:-)

Yes I played the tourney in July the field there was no harder

In the us open 9 ball there were a lot of weak players but there were more players
 
If SVB is willing to play on a neutral table he can play Bill Brasky some, Bill only plays full rack rotation these days....
 
But Shane has won it twice with all these players you mentioned here, so I can't see that making much of a difference.
i believe the players mentioned (Orcullo, Biado, Pagulayan, Bustamante, Ko Pin-Yi, Wu Chia-Ching and Chang, Jung Lin) did not participate in this year's US Open.
 
Do you consider him the best all around player or Alex? anyone else? Hey thanks by the way for validating some of these discussions with facts as to how you have personally played them.

That's one of the best things here when people validate with facts and personal experience at the higher levels. Players like Chris can speak about how it actually IS playing at that level. The rest of us speculate.

CJ in the other threads does the same and gets almost no respect.
 
The Efren Syndrome

IIRC...There was a time when everyone was having a similar conversation about Efren Reyes. Similar to Shane inability to snap off a Chinese tournament. At on point, Efren had beaten everyone for the money (but BH) but was finishing 2nd in all of the tournaments. He just couldn't get that monkey off his back. But, after he did once, it was off and running. Now, many would call him the best ever.

For Shane, it seems to be the World Championships. He does fine gambling in the Philippines. So he can compete while traveling. But, tournament play is so much different. Many people believe that gambling has more pressure than tournaments. Not for the best players. Tourneys have a short race and no room for error. Whereas, in gambling, players have more time to acclimate to the table, they're in an informal settting (able to walk around and talk), and when they lose, simply buy back into it and play again. Shane will put this puzzle together. Six months ago, I believed that his game was predicated on this break. Now, I believe it has become the opposite.
 
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As soon as I read that I looked just like that gif saying "WHAT???"

Shane is one of only two people to win back to back DCC one pockets....

Anyone who thinks Shane isn't a top one hole player hasn't been paying attention.

Jaden

I agree with the end and would add that anybody who things svb isn't a top shelf 1p player must also believe 8and out isn't a good move.
 
I don't believe any male pool player has made more than Shane ($862,966) since 2007. It looks like the closest person would be Mika ($652,086).
 
Question: Will Shane be participating in the All-Japan Championship?

Here's some of the confirmed participants:

Chang Jung Lin (TPE)
Yang Ching Shun (TPE)
Thorsten Hohmann (GER)
Antonio Gabica (PHI)
Rodney Morris (USA)
Alex Pagulayan (CAN)
Mika Immonen (FIN)
Ralf Souquet (GER)
Johnny Archer (USA)
Dennis Orcollo (PHI)
Lee Van Corteza (PHI)
Efren Reyes (PHI)
Francisco Bustamante (PHI)
Wu Chia Ching (CHN)
Ko Pin Yi (TPE)
Wang Can (CHN)
Kunihiko Takahashi (JAP)
Johann Chua (PHI)
 
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I agree with the end and would add that anybody who things svb isn't a top shelf 1p player must also believe 8and out isn't a good move.

Ahaha! Best line of the thread! I would need Shane to give me 11-4 and he would go 11 an out I'm sure. [Maybe 12-3, and 12 and out] Talk about strong. He's a monster.
 
Question: Will Shane be participating in the All-Japan Championship?

Here's some of the confirmed participants:

Chang Jung Lin (TPE)
Yang Ching Shun (TPE)
Thorsten Hohmann (GER)
Antonio Gabica (PHI)
Rodney Morris (USA)
Alex Pagulayan (CAN)
Mika Immonen (FIN)
Ralf Souquet (GER)
Johnny Archer (USA)
Dennis Orcollo (PHI)
Lee Van Corteza (PHI)
Efren Reyes (PHI)
Francisco Bustamante (PHI)
Wu Chia Ching (CHN)
Ko Pin Yi (TPE)
Wang Can (CHN)
Kunihiko Takahashi (JAP)
Johann Chua (PHI)

Please provide a link for this event.
Thanks,
JoeyA
 
Please provide a link for this event.
Thanks,
JoeyA

Joey, it's a WPA-sanctioned event. Just go to WPA's website at wpa-pool.com. i think it's on the index page as one of the "Current/Upcoming Events". It's from Nov 18-24.
 
It's amazing you belittle his play with all of his accomplishments. In fact I find it quite hysterical:-). It sounds to me like you might have lost a lot of money betting against him. I can't figure anything else out. That was his 3rd US Open win man, LOL:-)

You may need to reread my post. I've said that no one in the world is better and that he has just two peers in Orcullo and Appleton. You call that belittling his play? Now that's hysterical.

FYI, it is extremely rare that I bet on a pool match and I have never bet on any match involving Shane. nor have I ever made a bet on this forum. I don't think I've side bet more than $20 on a pool match in about 15 years and have never side bet a match when I wasn't watching it live.

Thank you, though, for your interest in my finances.
 
I look at it this way. A three-way tie between Shane, Darren and Dennis O.

Shane for his sheer dominance in the US, playing absolute brilliancy on a pool table. Whether it involves world class participants or not, his skill is undeniable and he performs at his absolute best and is great to watch under pressure. If he manages to win overseas, he will be regarded as the best under any circumstance and it would further erase any doubts to his overall capability.

Darren and Dennis for having won championships all over the world.

Darren Appleton has everything in his stellar resume but the world 8 ball in which he hopes to attain someday. He has developed a skill to play his game at the highest level no matter where the location of the event. Exceptional player and like Dennis, a threat to win any tourney he enters.

Lastly, we have Dennis O, a threat to win any tournament and gambling match from anywhere worldwide. Ends up in the finals frequently and honed his skills to seek and destroy opponents with surgical precision.

Cant really argue if you have any of the above as your best player.
 
Rare to disagree with you, but it's fun to talk about ^

What do marathons have to do with anything? I love TAR matches and buy them often but they are a novelty. You can play poorly for long stretches in a TAR match and still win, but winning the toughest tournaments is about sustained excellence in performance.

How do you define sustained?

Shane's US Open wins: Shane wins 88 games, against players of varying quality, with a break every 11 wins.
Shane's Races to 100: Shane wins 100 games, shorter time frame, fewer breaks, playing ONLY world-class players.
I'd say the TAR match is clearly about sustained excellence.

You say a player can play poorly for a stretch in TAR and still win...
That seems highly theoretical, not a reflection of what actually happens.
From what I've seen it's very rare for players to fall more than 10 racks behind in a tar match and go on to win,
or drop 10 in a row unanswered but win anyway.

Just because the long race affords you the "time" to dig yourself out of a hole,
doesn't mean you have the will or skill to do it.

In a short race, every error is magnified and late match pressure is a near certainty. That's why we watch the Mosconi Cup. Any mistake may be the one that costs the match, so the pressure on the players is grueling. Only a few are able to cope with it and find their best games. A year ago, Johnny Archer certainly did. Maybe this year will be Shane's turn to be dominant. I'd love to see that.

Every roll is magnified too in a short race, which somewhat taints the results.

Seeing players rise or fold when faced with pressure makes for good viewing, but we also tune in because
it's great production value and a fun format. Short races, slop counts, enforced hard breaks, etc... all very fun to watch.
Race to 100 is less fun to watch but that's not related to whether it's a better test of skill.

Let's put it another way. You are staking a guy who you think is the best in a group of players.
You feel they're all about equal except your horse has a 5% edge over the rest.
You want to ensure the BEST player wins and you want to preserve your bankroll..
Do you prefer he plays each of them in a series of races to 11? Or he plays one of them to 100?

Unfortunately, winning tournaments is much harder than winning one long race. To knock off champion after champion is what it takes. Only a few have it, and Shane is one of them, but when it comes to knocking off champion after champion in events where all the giants of the sport are present, Shane has not performed at the level of Dennis or Darren.

No event has ALL of the giants present, and most tournaments are not round robin.
You're always facing only a limited subset of champions at the end of the bracket.

So in your opinion, how many champions does a player have to beat before
that particular tournament is, let's call it a top-tier or world-class victory?

Can you think of an example where, between Shane, Darren, Dennis, Busty and Alex...
one of those players had to beat the other 4? How about 3 of them?

Also, another comment regarding the popular "TAR players get paid so it's less pressure and not a real test of skill" theory.
Don't you get paid just to show up in the mosconi cup? Handsomely too, $7,500.
And yet they play their nuts off.
 
I look at it this way. A three-way tie between Shane, Darren and Dennis O.

Shane for his sheer dominance in the US, playing absolute brilliancy on a pool table. Whether it involves world class participants or not, his skill is undeniable and he performs at his absolute best and is great to watch under pressure. If he manages to win overseas, he will be regarded as the best under any circumstance and it would further erase any doubts to his overall capability.

Darren and Dennis for having won championships all over the world.

Darren Appleton has everything in his stellar resume but the world 8 ball in which he hopes to attain someday. He has developed a skill to play his game at the highest level no matter where the location of the event. Exceptional player and like Dennis, a threat to win any tourney he enters.

Lastly, we have Dennis O, a threat to win any tournament and gambling match from anywhere worldwide. Ends up in the finals frequently and honed his skills to seek and destroy opponents with surgical precision.

Cant really argue if you have any of the above as your best player.

Dennis and Darren are 2 of the best players on the planet, no doubt. Having said that, Shane destroyed both of them in races to 100.

It seems everyone's argument is that Shane hasn't done very well in tournament play overseas. It's pure sample size folks. If he played 12 tourneys a year overseas then he would show the same dominance as he has here. He's only played a handful of international tourneys and in short races anything can happen.

It's just like poker. Anything can happen in one game, 5 games, or even 10 games. But sample 50 or 100 poker sessions and the better players gets the cash every time. Put 2 of the best players in the world in a race to 11 and the better player might only win 60-65% of the time, but let them play a couple of races to 100 and see who wins. It's going to be the better player a higher majority of the time and Shane has proven that he's the better player in this format.

Short races in tourneys are the variance in pool.
 
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