TAR and its future...(dosent look good IMO)

Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah I know thats a big statment, but I just talked to Chad and got the numbers, they cant survive with the numbers the way they are. He didnt say a word to me about the future of TAR-I DONT WANT TO START RUMORS. I am saying that TAR cant exist with out buys period!!!

It aint my business but I just called Chad, I needed some good news-Knowing that they are doing a feed of the WPBA I was sure they would have a good audience, I figured the players, their friends and other who arnt AZ people might bring in some good numbers in addition to their regulars.

I was WRONG, real wrong they have a total of 21 paid feeds, yup 21. I cant even comphrend that low of a number, I thought by accident there would be at least 100 PPV's. I know people are at work, $$ is tight, a million other excuses but even with all the excuses out of the way there are only 21 people watching it???? thats like 2 states for every viewer, there are 300,000,000 people in America and 21 are watching TAR. How can that be???


Lets do some math. 21 X $30=$630. yup $630 that wont pay for Justins air plane trip, shipping the equipment, and all the other hard costs of the production. NOT including his time.


If the numbers dont work, they dont work. I know $$ is tight, pool is dead but 21 PPV's or $630 is going to result in a bad outcome for TAR. the KC Ring Game will be a good trip for them but for TAR to survive and be a real thing they need customers, not leaches on U-stream who just take. It would be a shame to say "Remember TAR?, It was the nuts"
 
  • Like
Reactions: JAM
Eric,
I have to work during the stream. Let me know where to send some cash to help keep them alive. We all have to pull together to make this work. Everything will work out, we are Americans... Let's pull on our boots and kick some ass...

Dwight
 
BigDogatLarge said:
Eric,
I have to work during the stream. Let me know where to send some cash to help keep them alive. We all have to pull together to make this work. Everything will work out, we are Americans... Let's pull on our boots and kick some ass...

Dwight
Click to expand...


For sure, I do alot for TAR and awalys will, i'm busy no and took the time to post this.

you bring up a good point, they need a 5 hour delay on it then there would be more buys, as I'm too busy now to watch, or even post for that matter, i just took a break to call Chad. Live events during the week are tough but still 21??? you would think there would be more disables, old, unemployeed people to get more than 21.

I am 100% dedicated to making TAR work, and I hope others are too!!
 
I would like to encourage TAR to join other forums/poolwebsites and let people know about upcoming events. Not everyone involved in pool visits AZBilliards.

As an example www.biljardforbundet.no has several hundreds different people posting, and tens of thousands hits every month. But less than 10 people from Norway is members here on AZBilliards, and only I post regulary.

FYI, for an hour ago I made a post about www.theactionreports.com, and that people can watch the tournament there.

www.poolkrant.nl (Poolwebsite for Netherlands (and Belgium?). Forum)
www.billard-aktuell.de (German website with forum. People from Austria and Switzerland participate on this site)
www.alltombiljard.nu (Swedish poolforum)
www.pro9.co.uk (UK based website with forum. News from all over Europe)

Those just popped in my head now. There are hundreds of other websites/forums out there.

I am pretty sure that if TAR will send an email to Gre Leenders, secretary in WPA and President of EBPF, he can provide them with emails to all Federations in atleast Europe.

The Norwegian Pool Federation's website publish most of the press releases that they receive, and I am pretty sure that most of other pool-related websites will do the same.

Just my thoughts about how to get some more viewers outside America.

I know it ain't so easy. Right now the time is 01:25 in Norway, and already 2 hours past bedtime for me... So most of the Europeans will probably not buy it anyway, because of the difference in time...

But it's probably worth a try
 
No matter how great TAR is, and it truly is, they must get the word out beyond the billiards industry. Even smaller yet, the internet billiards industry.

This is true for all of pool. It is just a nich sub-culture. No way near main stream.

Main stream is where the $$$ is.
 
My 2 cents...

BigDogatLarge said:
Eric,
I have to work during the stream. Let me know where to send some cash to help keep them alive. We all have to pull together to make this work. Everything will work out, we are Americans... Let's pull on our boots and kick some ass...

Dwight
Click to expand...

I just want to add to what BigDog said. I don't have the time to sit and watch the matches live. However, if I could access the videos at a later time then I would have paid for the WPBA live feed. As it stands, I would have only been able to watch maybe 2 matches on Thurs. and Fri.
If there was anyway to have access to the matches after the fact for say a given period of time (48-72 hrs after the live matches???), then I would have been #22 paid subscriber.
I appreciate all that TAR provides and enjoy all the coverage and do want to support them.
 
Fatboy, when I first heard that TAR was doing this WPBA thing, the first thought I had was that the WPBA must be paying their travelling costs and the Seminoles must be helping them with rooms at the Hard Rock. How is could it be explained that they were coming down to show:
#25 rankedJoanne Ashton vs #44 ranked Morgan Steinman.

unranked Jennifer Chen vs (unranked?) Supadra Boonpasook.

#9 ranked Gerda Hofstatter vs (unranked?) Angel Paglia.

(unranked?) Sarah Rousey vs (unranked?) Nicole Keeney

I mean really, cmon...you have SVB, Corey, Henny, plus all the other gals who are bigger draws and they arent on the PPV? To me, this looked like it was strictly a WPBA thing bc the WPBA paid their bills to get here.

I am all for supporting TAR because I like what they do and I have always liked their presentations, but this was asking a bit much. I paid the PPV to them last time at the US Open and for the cost I got to watch half of a Shane match and went to bed. Nothing happened the next night. I know they had alot of matches on before then but I wasnt watching any of them.

If TAR came down to the Hard Rock on their own dime, and was seeking to make money solely on doing PPV of unranked, unknown WBPA players, well then, they made a BAD decision. I know hindsight is 20/20 but still, I think anyone with any kind of history of pool would have been able to call this. Me and another friend of mine were talking last night and I told him the over under was 25 of paid PPV for TAR today. Without hesistating he told me he liked the under.

If TAR is to survive I think they should have a few things changed
1) they need to make their feed PPV in the evenings and maybe during the day for all the events. The US Open was a classic example. Why didnt they go PPV from day one. Everyone on the feed would have understood and totally been behind that decision except the freeloading Nits and who cares about them anyways? We all know what the product was, its not like they needed the 6 day presell to finally sell us 4 hrs of PPV.
2) they need to figure out a way to get the product to DVD faster. I have this feeling that the product is delayed bc TAR does not have any professional video editors. They might have to bite the bullet and hire some or do freelancers or SOMETHING, because the method they are doing where the product is taking months to get to DVD or longer is not working for them.
3) They should consider doing a website that offers the archive of footage pay per minute. Lots of people do not want to buy dvds but would sweat 30 min on some evening that they had time. I could go over countless examples of PPM. JCIN and them just have to PM me to get the discussion going as I have some info on this. They have to monetize their content and do it quick. Time is passing by and content like this has its way of making it to the consumer via pirates if TAR cannot deliver legitimate channels for it. Accustats piracy problems and dvd release delays are a good historical example of just this.
4) For this to survive long term, and this is being a bit brutal frank, but TAR needs to stop treating this like a hobby and start treating it like full time jobs. I have repeatedly gotten the sense that TAR flies by the seat of their pants, has no really business experience with cash flow or ROI or really any kind of business plan. they could start by mapping out a revised business plan of what they currently do and in what areas they are weak and need revision.

I wish them the best, I love TAR to death and think they have been one of the best things to come to pool in the last 10 years. I hope and pray for their survival but I too have long thought if they didnt make some fundamental changes, the end was not far off.

Lastly I want to be clear that I am not knocking the gals shown on the PPV as not being deserving of attention. What I am saying is getting people to pay PPV online is really tough and you need headliners to make it work for now. Sorry if I offended any of the gals, I like their play and have even staked one of the gals on the PPV in a money match before so its not like I dont have respect for their ability to run out.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure the decision on players is what is behind the low numbers. I think a mix with guys matches would have been good in this case but that was not to be the focus this time.

I think anytime you can't advertise specific matches and give viewers lead up time to talk and get excited about it makes it hard to sell PPV.

The best events in my opinion to me are ones like the SVB vs. Alex so maybe you could have that as a main event with a few lead up matches, even shorten up the races. Much like UFC so you could advertise a lineup for a month or two in advance.

ex. Action Challenge 5
Main Event: Reigning Champion Alex Pagulyan vs. SVB Race to 25
Also matching up: Jason Klatt vs. Justin Bergman Race to 15 and Steve Moore vs. John Schmidt Race to 15

The other thing this does is allow the betting lines to be opened up before the event. Also you could schedule the matches and feed at the best time to get the most viewers.

Just some of my ideas, I love TAR and if I can do anything in my role as a Billiards Website Owner (Shooterville.com) to better push my audiance to sign up let me know.
 
Last edited:
the future hm.....

it would be pure speculation to try and predict the future. jcin and myself are learn as you go. we do these tournaments to see if there is any hope for streaming tournaments. we specalize in TAR action matchs. when WE have control and can advertise our own programs and dont have to wait on anybody for a go ahead so they get advertised properly and far enough ahead so that we can generate some intrest in them. we are a 2 man crew and do what we can we are going to concentrait on new dvds of our stuff and start plannning more of our stuff..... dont give up on us yet..... thanks to all of you that bought the ppv and the tar gear and dvds we will have more coming soon! thanks again nasty and jcin
 
Fatboy said:
I am 100% dedicated to making TAR work, and I hope others are too!!
Click to expand...

We got a bunch of ... on the other thread about Jasmin talking about *boycotting* the PPV:rolleyes:

This is my first PPV (normally I buy the DVDs) and am having a blast. It's nice to watch some "unknown" players but commentaries by Kristi Carter, Helena, Sarah Rousey and others are making it worth the money. A bunch of WPBA players stopping by and chatting/commentating.

Right now, Loree Jon Jones is on the mike ....

Helena is really good commentator and Kristi has been there all day.
 
I think TAR will come to decide that PPV on the ladies matches is a smaller market, much in the same way that 14.1 has a smaller market than 10ball.
 
OK, Im kinda new here pretty much...and I know this is going to sound really stupid....what is TAR......I hope I am not the only dumbass that doesnt know what TAR is...I guess I must not be paying enought attention on here and spending too much time in the pool hall.....:confused: Is that what that search thingy is for? :)
 
I'm trying to pick a dvd set to buy... which one is the best for skill and quality of play? I already have SVB vs. The Lion round 1.
 
Hierovision said:
I'm trying to pick a dvd set to buy... which one is the best for skill and quality of play? I already have SVB vs. The Lion round 1.
Click to expand...

If you like straight pool, Action All Around 1: Day 1 Straight Pool Danny Harriman vs. John Schmidt is great. 4 DVDs.

I also like the The OB Cues Action Challenge 3: Van Boening vs Pagulayan.


www.theactionreport.com for ftgokie
 
Jazz said:
We got a bunch of ... on the other thread about Jasmin talking about *boycotting* the PPV:rolleyes:

This is my first PPV (normally I buy the DVDs) and am having a blast. It's nice to watch some "unknown" players but commentaries by Kristi Carter, Helena, Sarah Rousey and others are making it worth the money. A bunch of WPBA players stopping by and chatting/commentating.

Right now, Loree Jon Jones is on the mike ....

Helena is really good commentator and Kristi has been there all day.
Click to expand...

Jazz...
I've also been here since 10:30am and I'm having a blast listening to all the commentary. These girls are being super candid and I've been laughing out loud to myself. I like that I can type something in the chat and they'll address my questions/comments directly to me on the video. The interaction is great and has totally been worth the money. And I like seeing all the unranked players, IMO, because they aren't people we see all the time.
 
I've bought most of he ppv's that TAR has done. I've not been able to watch but about half what I"ve bought but it's still been a bargain.

Maybe the low numbers for the WPBA thing is that most pool players just aren't that interested in womens pool. I'm not. Sorry. I'm just not interested enough to buy the ppv and spend my day watching it. I don't even watch when it's free. Sorry. Call me sexist. Call me whatever. The bottom line is I'm just not that intersted in ladies pool. It doesn't trip my trigger.
 
It could just be me, but I didn't see one iota of promotion for this event beyond the announcement here. The press release got picked up by the industry sites but this seemed very last minute and very poorly promoted. You can't count on the AZ Billiards Forum to drive business. There are maybe 100 or so regular posters here and another couple hundred who lurk and post infrequently. That doesn't equate to success.

Look at the IPT garbage. They would spend months promoting their events and get maybe a couple thousand viewers, none of which were paid. Hell, look at the standard first run play of a WPBA event on ESPN. The average event pulls around a .25 (unless Jasmin is playing). That's about 27,000 households for an event on free TV on the largest cable network in America.

Even without the AZB "boycott", the numbers weren't going to be very high. If you build it, you still need to promote it to get them to come. In this case, there was no time to promote it. When you combine a very new medium (streaming media) with a business that doesn't have a large early adopter audience, you can't expect huge numbers.

Just my $0.02.
 
You know what, this thread makes me want to watch it tomorrow. I hope there's room on the net for one more. :smile:
 
Well

Im not trying to be an asshole, but I guess it seems that way.

But it seems they wont or cant get the players I want to watch on here.

I know us AZers are a fickel bunch but there are some that I think would be better.

We have shared those, and I am sick of it coming up again and again and again, but Keith vs. Dave Matlock and that such would be a better draw.

I am a pool fan but watching the WPBA is boring, its boring on TV and more boring on TAR.

Guys its men verses women or old school verses new school, or whatever but I am all for supporting but I want to support something enjoyable too.

Earl is a possible draw, but Keith is a goldmine, and Dave is right there too.

Ken
 
So far today, there have been over 1,700 registered users on the forums.

There were just under 10,000 user sessions on the forums yesterday.

Mike


poolsnark said:
There are maybe 100 or so regular posters here and another couple hundred who lurk and post infrequently. That doesn't equate to success.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top