The A-Team is heading south!!

Deal!

DONE DEAL< Water under the bridge. I sincerely apologize that it went this far and if you felt I disrespected you in any way. That was not my intention. I love this forum and am on here daily looking for information and any way I can be a positive contributor to the forum. I understand that I am the newbie and I really do try not to act like I know anything more than I actually do and NEVER claimed to be a mechanic even. I am working my ass of to become a mechanic an I hope that is obvious and clear by the work I present in my AZ photo album here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54
I will be posting my current project next weekend after it is installed.

Trent from Toledo
 
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Trent,

The only thing clear in all of your pictures is a completed table taken from a distance. Anyone can do that. It does not showcase any ability you may possess. How do I as a potential customer know you even did the work? Show me pictures of you working on the table with progressional pictures of putting the table together.
I have torn down and reinstalled probably 20-30 tables in my life. I'm not a mechanic nor pretend to be one. My pictures would look just like yours. Does that mean I'm as good as you or a great table mechanic? Absolutely not. It only means I can put a table together for a picture.

Do yourself and potential customers a favor and showcase your talents. What can it hurt?

Kelly

trentfromtoledo said:
DONE DEAL< Water under the bridge. I sincerely apologize that it went this far and if you felt I disrespected you in any way. That was not my intention. I love this forum and am on here daily looking for information and any way I can be a positive contributor to the forum. I understand that I am the newbie and I really do try not to act like I know anything more than I actually do and NEVER claimed to be a mechanic even. I am working my ass of to become a mechanice an I hope that is obvious and clear by the work I present in my AZ photo album here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54
I will be posting my current project next weekend after it is installed.

Trent from Toledo
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They handled it through Diamond!

Josh,

I am quite sure I talked to you about this exact room and the owner handled it himself through Diamond. Hence my shock that the work is not up to par. I know your reputation and have only heard that you are an "A" quality mechanic! If Glenn aka Real King Cobra won't come, you are the next person I will recommend to the owner. Thanks for making some lemonade out of lemons concerning this post!!!!! I really am trying to let this thread DIE!!!!! LOL

Trent from Toledo


Club Billiards said:
Call me next time. I'll come to Toledo and cover those Diamonds.

- The C Crew.
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That's surprising to me, but something that should be addressed directly with Diamond if the work is unsatisfactory. I'm sure that's something Diamond would like to correct if it's a recurring issue with the A B or C crew they're using to represent their name.

In the future, the job can still be handled through Diamond, but if you'd like to request me specifically to do the work for them, I'd be more than happy to.
 
Salt in wounds.

I am trying not to "pour salt in their wounds" over it, they know and seem to have just let it go. I don't like making people feel bad, so I try VERY hard( I failed a little last night lol ) to not point out stuff all the time. The owner is a friend and on my BCA team, I am just trying to point him in the right direction!! Thanks again Josh!

Trent from Toledo
 
trentfromtoledo said:
Mark,

I think you missed my point entirely. It really had nothing to do with the A-Team's ability, quality of work or lack there of, it was the fact that you attacked them right off the bat.

I actually do know what you are talking about concerning these "crews" and now I will tell a lil story about the Diamond Pool Tables at the Pool room where I captain my BCA team out of: We have 12 Diamonds: 10-7' Pro Am's , 1- 9' Pro and 1- 9' Am. Diamond's guys came to recover them all last year. First, I am not sure how they could not sell them Championship 30/30 on all of them, but, the 2 nine footers were and the rest were covered with Mercury Ultra. So the 9 footers both have some obvious "Waves" in the cloth where you can see it they both were not stretched properly and I have learned frm Glenn that this can lead to "grain tracking" with the balls. I was just noticing last night when I was there practicing: the pockets look like shit. I can see the relief cuts and it looks like they tried the 2 piece pocket method and FAILED horribly. Now on to the 7 footers: You can actually move the cloth with your hand by placing it flat on the table with a lil pressure and the cloth turns. Its not terrible and yet it is still not right. On some of the tables a slow rolling ball that is approaching the pocket will actually ROLL BACKWARDS because there is so much glue on TOP of the slate that it has formed an almost un noticeable ridge!!!! On another one of the tables there is for surely a thread under the cloth and it is obvious that is what it is. They were there for a day and a half. So yeah I get it, they burn and turned MY FAVORITE POOL ROOM that I captain my team out of. Obviously I am very unhappy with it and knowing that I can do a MUCH better job( see below about not knowing anything about Diamonds, But I know I could recover one if it were apart) than that is the worst part and I say this because I have just under 2 years of experience under my belt. It would take me minimum 4-5 days w/ a helper to do that many tables because I would not "production line" all of them. I would recover each table individually and do a good job that is right and not the easy quick route. So Mark, the point you keep making about these jokers who run around the country doing 20 tables a day is very clear and I hate to have had to use Diamonds installers as an example, but, I clearly demonstrated that I understand by the long ass paragraph I just wrote. I have spoken to Glenn about coming to Toledo to work on the tables there and hopefully he will because I want the room owner to know what he is supposed to be getting. I would not even solicit the owner because I work on Brunswicks and have ZERO experience with a Diamond. Not that I am scared or anything, I make it a point to not tell people I can do things that I have never done. I always tell my clients when I have not done something they are asking me to and proceed to finding someone who has the experience needed, hence , calling Glenn and asking him for his help and possibly coming here.

Side issue with all the tables and I am surely open to opinions about this:
On every table where the cushion meets the subrail there is also an inconsistency in the "line" that shows through the cloth, in my opinion should not be there and it is on some rails an proper on others. Shit, on one it has it half way and then it disappears. I make sure to trim any and all excess "lip" on top of the cushions I see it on. Weird part is SuperSpeeds seem to have this inconsistency on most sets I have received. I hope the new SuperSpeeds that just came out with a diff formula might not have this issue.

So now,

The actual weird part is that you know who at least one of the guys is and then proceeded to complimented him. The only reason I said ANYTHING was because of our lengthy conversations on the phone. I have shown you nothing but absolute respect since the day I showed up on AZ Billiards. I did not post anything wrong in my first post on this thread and in fact in every post I have made sure to point out the fact that you are one of the very best I could find in my research. I simply asked why you are always shooting down other people and being mean. I guess all I am saying is try to be nicer about your opinions and critiques of others?

Trent from Toledo

P.s. How is it that someone can "watch your posts" this is a forum where PEOPLE COME TO READ ALL THE POSTS, its obviously hard to avoid your posts Mark. I also do not need anyone to "give me a job" I have more on my plate that I can actually perform. I RARELY do moves or maintenance as I am busy with my inventory of Vintage Brunswicks :)
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I want the names of those who recovered the Diamond's in the pool room you're talking about. I find it very hard to believe that any table mechanic's that represent Diamond would use ANY other cloth than Simonis to recover Diamond tables....PM me who did the work!

Glen
 
Not trying to start a pissing contest, but when you say the "A" team is coming through S.C., you're saying your team is better than any mechanic in S.C. Therefore there will probably be some ruffled feathers. I'm a mechanic in S.C. and I do excellent work. I have done a lot of work with Mark Gregory and I assure you no one takes greater pride in their work than Mark and I. I'm sure you didn't mean it as a slight to work done by us specifically, but it could be misinterpreted. Brian White
 
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B_White said:
Not trying to start a pissing contest, but when you say the "A" team is coming through S.C., you're saying your team is better than any mechanic in S.C. Therefore there will probably be some ruffled feathers. I'm a mechanic in S.C. and I do excellent work. I have done a lot of work with Mark Gregory and I assure you no one takes greater pride in their work than Mark and I. I'm sure you didn't mean it as a slight to work done by us specifically, but it could be misinterpreted. Brian White
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BW, got any pics of your work ?
 
Trust me....Brian's work is very good and getting better everyday....he's been doing work for me and with me.
I've shown him a ton in the last year....people say on this forum how I won't show anyone anything....LMAO
I've shown Brian everything he's ask me....plus I've made him rail jigs.....showed him how to do rail work....with extensions and how to properly install the cushions.
And yeah......he lives 2 hours form me.....so for all the ones that think I keep everything a secret for myself......well....if I did I wouldn't show someone that lives in my area.
Brian just did Johnny Archers room with me...he did the leveling and the beds.....I did all the rails.
And trust me his rail work is every bit as good as mine.....and his bar table rails are better than mine....so yes.....he can stand next to anyone in this business and do as good or much better.
Those that think I'm selfish...and self centered.....don't know me at all.
Pool and pool table mechanics have the biggest ego in the world.....and I would have to say the mechanics have the players beat......I'm still both and have never seen the players act like some of the mechanics.....and the INSTALLERS....


Glen and I talk about the mechanic and installers all the time......as soon as they learn something....they lose respect for the one that showed them.
If you think I don't know what I'm talking about......just listen to the installer or mechanic when they're trying to get your work.......first thing out of their mouth....is I can't believe that last guy did that or look what he did here......all along in the end you wind up with the same job you just had.

I'm not the greatest mechanic like guys try and say while putting me down.......but I know how to repair just about every table....and I put my all into every job.....I charge good.....so you should receive the best you can get for your money.
Brian's cut from the same mold......he gives his all on every table....that's all anyone can ask.

Mark Gregory
 
I haven't seen Brian's work, but I know he bought my DVDs and studied the hell out of them, so Mark's backing up of Brian work is good enough for me, because I know Mark would never endorce a table mechanic if he didn't honestly feel he could do the job's right in the first place.

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
I haven't seen Brian's work, but I know he bought my DVDs and studied the hell out of them, so Mark's backing up of Brian work is good enough for me, because I know Mark would never endorce a table mechanic if he didn't honestly feel he could do the job's right in the first place.

Glen
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Glen....I couldn't believe the cloth work he was doing after watching you and Jays DVD.
His bar table rails are as good as it gets....Brian's going to be with no doubt a top mechanic for sure.
And I've as well as you glen.....have seen a lot of people's table work.
Couple more years and he's going to be right up at the top.....of course after you and I quit....LMAO.....sorry....I warned everyone about the ego of mechanics.....just kidding.....not really....LMAO

Mark Gregory
 
perfectpocketz said:
Trust me....Brian's work is very good and getting better everyday....he's been doing work for me and with me.
I've shown him a ton in the last year....people say on this forum how I won't show anyone anything....LMAO
I've shown Brian everything he's ask me....plus I've made him rail jigs.....showed him how to do rail work....with extensions and how to properly install the cushions.
And yeah......he lives 2 hours form me.....so for all the ones that think I keep everything a secret for myself......well....if I did I wouldn't show someone that lives in my area.
Brian just did Johnny Archers room with me...he did the leveling and the beds.....I did all the rails.
And trust me his rail work is every bit as good as mine.....and his bar table rails are better than mine....so yes.....he can stand next to anyone in this business and do as good or much better.
Those that think I'm selfish...and self centered.....don't know me at all.
Pool and pool table mechanics have the biggest ego in the world.....and I would have to say the mechanics have the players beat......I'm still both and have never seen the players act like some of the mechanics.....and the INSTALLERS....


Glen and I talk about the mechanic and installers all the time......as soon as they learn something....they lose respect for the one that showed them.
If you think I don't know what I'm talking about......just listen to the installer or mechanic when they're trying to get your work.......first thing out of their mouth....is I can't believe that last guy did that or look what he did here......all along in the end you wind up with the same job you just had.

I'm not the greatest mechanic like guys try and say while putting me down.......but I know how to repair just about every table....and I put my all into every job.....I charge good.....so you should receive the best you can get for your money.
Brian's cut from the same mold......he gives his all on every table....that's all anyone can ask.

Mark Gregory
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Is he qualified to fix a Demonized Gold Crown rails ?:D
I have no clue what the angle of the subrails' mounting face though.
 
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JoeyInCali said:
Is he qualified to fix and Demonized Gold Crown rails ?:D
I have no clue what the angle of the subrails' mounting face though.
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No...Brian's not going to offer jobs he can't do correctly.....that's not the kind of guy Brian is.....he can do rail extensions.....and cushion work....but sub rail work he sends to me......he don't want to do that kind of work....for one there's no money in that kind of work....and the work takes time to do....and years to learn correctly.
There's no dimonize rails......it just Artemis cushions installed with Brunswick specs.
Rail work is not as easy as some think......well not to have the rails play the correct way players want........but repairing the rails or replacing the wood is only cosmetic.....has little to do with the play of the rails.
rare to get 6 rails off the table that all have the same thickness....all rails are different.....ever wonder why someone comes to your poolroom and recovers the tables....but when their done....all the tables play differently.

They stretched the cloth different on all the tables.....same with rails....everything has to be the same.....you just can't follow the numbers....well you can...and most do...so all the rails on the table play differently.
A lot of work goes into 1 set of rails to make them all play the same.
Now...those that don't know the difference....don't play very good....will not know the rails act different.....but when someone knows how to play...even pretty good....they'll know the rails don't play the same.....that's when you'll hear someone say....wow that's a hot rail...or did you see how that ball came off the rail.

Believe me...I could go on about rail work.....but for what....it's never going to help change anything in this business.
I never started doing rail work for the money.....I started cause....I couldn't take it playing on shit anymore.....I'm still trying different things everyday.....I do know one thing.....I keep myself broke buying things to try and do something better all the time.


Mark Gregory
 
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Kudos Mark,
a little short on rails but said enough to get to the point. I talk about rails everyone thinks I'm nuts about density thickness angle rubber and type of wood used and why.

Craig
 
Ted the used car salesman used to say there's an ass for every seat. Every pool table or room owner will not be the client of the very best table guys. In fact the vast majority outright refuse to commit the money to do so. They simply don't see the value.

Enter the "A" team. No matter what kind of work they do, they will have a clientèle, most of whom will be satisfied with what they got for their money. Wow look at that new cloth!! A few will not be satisfied and may see the light but don't count on it. It's all about perception.

This may be hard to hear and believe for the elite guys but sadly it's how the world has always worked. Not just in your field. The better you get at something, the fewer number of folks qualify as your client.

For every hacked pool table there's 5 pool player banger hacks happy to play a quarter half ring game on it. The bad rolls just add to the experience. especially if the play is cheap.

JC
 
All the rail talk reminds me of the time not long ago. I'm hanging out in the local room and the owner comes up to me and says " he has a guy coming in to fix the tables and tighten the 1P tables so they are the same".

I ended up meeting this guy later on and asked him how was he going to lengthen the rails to get rid of those huge shims that the tables had. He told me he has been working on tables for 30 years and that he had no idea what I was talking about. So yea, you guys know some top secret $hit:wink:
 
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