The Women vs. the Men at the 2010 World Pool Masters

[AtLarge]

With so much discussion of late about mixed-gender events, I thought I'd summarize the results from the ongoing 2010 World Pool Masters event.

These are just the facts with no subjective comments.

The event had 64 players, of whom 5 were females (unless I missed a female whose name is not familiar to me). The women were Ga Young Kim, Allison Fisher, Jasmin Ouschan, Yu Ram Cha, and Karen Corr -- certainly five of the finest women players in the world.

The 64 players were divided into 8 groups of 8, with 4 players emerging from each of the 8 groups to form the final 32 players for single elimination matches starting later today. Making it to the round of 32 required winning two matches in a row or two matches out of three (all races to 9 games of 9-ball).

Here's how the women did against the men.

• None of the five women made it to the final 32 players.​

• Three of the women won one match against the men (Kim def. Deuel, Fisher def. O. Dominguez, and Corr def. Rozwadowski).​

• The overall record in matches was 3 wins and 9 losses. (Ouschan def. Cha for the 4th win and 10th loss by a female.)​

• The overall record in games was 55 wins and 93 losses.​

 

[atthecat]

And all of those 5 women were late putting dinner on the table for their husbands! Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[LAlouie]

With so much discussion of late about mixed-gender events, I thought I'd summarize the results from the ongoing 2010 World Pool Masters event.

These are just the facts with no subjective comments.

The event had 64 players, of whom 5 were females (unless I missed a female whose name is not familiar to me). The women were Ga Young Kim, Allison Fisher, Jasmin Ouschan, Yu Ram Cha, and Karen Corr -- certainly five of the finest women players in the world.

The 64 players were divided into 8 groups of 8, with 4 players emerging from each of the 8 groups to form the final 32 players for single elimination matches starting later today. Making it to the round of 32 required winning two matches in a row or two matches out of three (all races to 9 games of 9-ball).

Here's how the women did against the men.

• None of the five women made it to the final 32 players.
• Three of the women won one match against the men (Kim def. Deuel, Fisher def. O. Dominguez, and Corr def. Rozwadowski).
• The overall record in matches was 3 wins and 9 losses. (Ouschan def. Cha for the 4th win and 10th loss by a female.)
• The overall record in games was 55 wins and 93 losses.

That's about right, imo.

 

[real bartram]

With so much discussion of late about mixed-gender events, I thought I'd summarize the results from the ongoing 2010 World Pool Masters event.

These are just the facts with no subjective comments.

The event had 64 players, of whom 5 were females (unless I missed a female whose name is not familiar to me). The women were Ga Young Kim, Allison Fisher, Jasmin Ouschan, Yu Ram Cha, and Karen Corr -- certainly five of the finest women players in the world.

The 64 players were divided into 8 groups of 8, with 4 players emerging from each of the 8 groups to form the final 32 players for single elimination matches starting later today. Making it to the round of 32 required winning two matches in a row or two matches out of three (all races to 9 games of 9-ball).

Here's how the women did against the men.

• None of the five women made it to the final 32 players.
• Three of the women won one match against the men (Kim def. Deuel, Fisher def. O. Dominguez, and Corr def. Rozwadowski).
• The overall record in matches was 3 wins and 9 losses. (Ouschan def. Cha for the 4th win and 10th loss by a female.)
• The overall record in games was 55 wins and 93 losses.

looks like i know what im talking about.
the women play good no disrespect but there are to many men that just play a lot better.

 

[LAMas]

I watched Jasmine and Cha in the opening 12:00 match and they both lost by large margins. I have seen both play against other women in WPBA at Viejas. Both of these ladies took a couple of years before they won in the WPBA against seasoned veterans like Alison Fisher and Karen Korr.

Jasmine and Cha didn't look comfortable in their matches against their male opponents as they would have been with the WPBA players. It reminded me of horses going up in class - they don't normally do well out of the gate.

There may not be that much difference between them and their opponents for they all missed some shots. What I noticed was that the men played more accurate safeties that the women couldn't hit and they, the women, had bad exicution on their safeties that let the men in.

It will take time for the women to get comfortable playing men regularly so that they can play their best game. Unless the WPBA gets more events here, they will have to play more against the men and get more comfortable in order to play their best game.

Otherwise, they will have to remain in Asia and Europe playing against the best women there.

 

[cleary]

looks like i know what im talking about.
the women play good no disrespect but there are to many men that just play a lot better.

This is the best I've seen it explained.

You have to figure it works in ratios. How many men play pool? How many of them play A speed or better? How many of them play pro speed or better? How many of them play world speed?

Now, how many women play pool? I think the numbers would stack up right if you could actually get these numbers. There simply isn't enough females playing. Seems Jean balukus was the cream of that crop, but she hit the road. Think of the naturally talented females that just never gave pool a chance. Same with men, but being a male dominated hobby, more men find their talent.

Guess that's just my view.

 

[JB Cases]

With so much discussion of late about mixed-gender events, I thought I'd summarize the results from the ongoing 2010 World Pool Masters event.

These are just the facts with no subjective comments.

The event had 64 players, of whom 5 were females (unless I missed a female whose name is not familiar to me). The women were Ga Young Kim, Allison Fisher, Jasmin Ouschan, Yu Ram Cha, and Karen Corr -- certainly five of the finest women players in the world.

The 64 players were divided into 8 groups of 8, with 4 players emerging from each of the 8 groups to form the final 32 players for single elimination matches starting later today. Making it to the round of 32 required winning two matches in a row or two matches out of three (all races to 9 games of 9-ball).

Here's how the women did against the men.

• None of the five women made it to the final 32 players.
• Three of the women won one match against the men (Kim def. Deuel, Fisher def. O. Dominguez, and Corr def. Rozwadowski).
• The overall record in matches was 3 wins and 9 losses. (Ouschan def. Cha for the 4th win and 10th loss by a female.)
• The overall record in games was 55 wins and 93 losses.

So it was five women against 61 men. 27 men also did not make the final 32.

It's a start.

These women may be getting beat now but at least they are allowed to play and get the experience.

Let's see how these stats look five years from now. Since the glass ceiling is starting to get cracks in it, it won't be long before we aren't even discussing things like this.

 

[justadub]

Let's see how these stats look five years from now. Since the glass ceiling is starting to get cracks in it, it won't be long before we aren't even discussing things like this.

Spot on!

Everything has to start somewhere. This is just the start. Soon enough, there will be ladies competing at the highest levels so often it won't be considered "different". No, that time isn't now. But the journey has begun.

We are all better off for it. Congrats ladies (and the men who played as well).

 

[Black-Balled]

...Since the glass ceiling is starting to get cracks in it, it won't be long before we aren't even discussing things like this.

Jeeziz, talk about a downer. First the Volcano, now cracks in the glass ceiling? WHAT
THE
FUKC!

 

[Mike in MN]

So it was five women against 61 men. 27 men also did not make the final 32.

It's a start.

These women may be getting beat now but at least they are allowed to play and get the experience.

Let's see how these stats look five years from now. Since the glass ceiling is starting to get cracks in it, it won't be long before we aren't even discussing things like this.

I agree. Soon, it will be as ubiquitous as anything else.

 

[FrogKissin]

It'll take time but in the meantime

One event does not make for good statistics, but I agree it'll take time and more participation by the female players in true open events to gain the experience needed in these competitions. In the meantime, I understand the debate and the doubts. However, I would never have expected the disparaging statements made in a press release that came directly from the WPBA itself, which one of its' own Sponsors - PoolDawg.com, felt strong enough about to post a statement on their Facebook blog - Here is the link to PoolDawg's blog:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php...hp?note_id=397278647137&id=35150397270&ref=mf

(if you have problems with this link, simply go to facebook, do a search for pooldawg.com and check their "notes" section for the above listed post)

Whether you agree or disagree about women playing in "men's" events, I would hope you'd agree that the WPBA should never, under any circumstances, belittle its own membership in such a chauvinistic manner and basically offend one of its much needed and loyal Sponsors. Times are tight enough as it is and its sad that certain persons within the WPBA have managed to alienate long-time supporters, volunteers and staff.

Anyway, there's my .02 worth (or is it .25 taking inflation into account).

In the meantime, I look forward to watching the women compete in true open events, working the experience curve to a point one day where the discussion between genders is a moot point Good luck and good shooting ladies!

 

[AtLarge]

Let's see how these stats look five years from now. Since the glass ceiling is starting to get cracks in it, it won't be long before we aren't even discussing things like this.

I started this thread because I do find it interesting to see what happens in the pool battle between the sexes. And I wondered how wild any other observers might get in generalizing from the data. As someone else observed, the results of this single event are pretty meaningless statistically. In fact, if three of the women had happened to win two matches, then the women would have had a higher percentage of players reaching the final 32 than the men. That, too, would have been pretty meaningless statistically.

Today, "things like this" are still interesting to watch. As John says, maybe someday we'll all get past it. I think the women will continue to have significant successes against the men from time to time, but I would be surprised if such occurrences become non-newsworthy any time in the near future.

 

[Bobby]

So it was five women against 61 men. 27 men also did not make the final 32.

It's a start.

These women may be getting beat now but at least they are allowed to play and get the experience.

Let's see how these stats look five years from now. Since the glass ceiling is starting to get cracks in it, it won't be long before we aren't even discussing things like this.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[mlalum]

looks like i know what im talking about.
the women play good no disrespect but there are to many men that just play a lot better.

yes barty you're a master of the obvious.

 

[real bartram]

yes barty you're a master of the obvious.

thats what i do

 

[mikeyfrost]

59 guys versus 5 girls. So 32/59 or 54% of the men made it to the Final 32 whereas 0% of the women made it. The fact that two of the women played each other, increased their chance to get there. Several of them came close but couldn't win that last match to get there.

Why do you think that is?

 

[KMRUNOUT]

thats what i do

Chris,

Since you are a real player and get to play some of the worlds best, I respect your opinion. Also, since you play lots of money matches, I think your view is better than most about what speed people play and what sort of weight might be needed. Based on that, I'd be really interested to hear some examples of women we all know and what you think would constitute a fair game with you.

Also not trying to knock anything for you, but I don't want to know what game you would sign up for, cause obviously you want to book a winner if possible. Just looking for an honest opinion of a 50/50 game.

For example, if you played Jasmine, would you play even? Maybe she'd get the 8? 8 and breaks? What do you think it would take to make it a 50/50 chance of winning? This would be in 9 ball, race to 50 lets say.

I'm interested to hear what you think. Feel free to use a different big name woman player (Ga Young Kim, Allison Fisher, etc.), or if you prefer to not name names, lets just say "a woman player of top women's pro speed".

Thanks for your input,

KMRUNOUT

 

[mikeyfrost]

Hatch lost to some dude Jayson Shaw just now...it's safe to say something crazy is goin on over there with all these upsets. Efren, Buste and company didnt even make the final 32. They need to start the whole tourney over again.

 

[Johnnyt]

Chris,

Since you are a real player and get to play some of the worlds best, I respect your opinion. Also, since you play lots of money matches, I think your view is better than most about what speed people play and what sort of weight might be needed. Based on that, I'd be really interested to hear some examples of women we all know and what you think would constitute a fair game with you.

Also not trying to knock anything for you, but I don't want to know what game you would sign up for, cause obviously you want to book a winner if possible. Just looking for an honest opinion of a 50/50 game.

For example, if you played Jasmine, would you play even? Maybe she'd get the 8? 8 and breaks? What do you think it would take to make it a 50/50 chance of winning? This would be in 9 ball, race to 50 lets say.

I'm interested to hear what you think. Feel free to use a different big name woman player (Ga Young Kim, Allison Fisher, etc.), or if you prefer to not name names, lets just say "a woman player of top women's pro speed".

Thanks for your input,

KMRUNOUT

Don't be bashful CB, use names. You might hook one or two for an action match. There are some that will play for the cash if they feel it's the right game. Johnnyt

 

[LAlouie]

I watched Jasmine and Cha in the opening 12:00 match and they both lost by large margins. I have seen both play against other women in WPBA at Viejas. Both of these ladies took a couple of years before they won in the WPBA against seasoned veterans like Alison Fisher and Karen Korr.

Jasmine and Cha didn't look comfortable in their matches against their male opponents as they would have been with the WPBA players. It reminded me of horses going up in class - they don't normally do well out of the gate.

There may not be that much difference between them and their opponents for they all missed some shots. What I noticed was that the men played more accurate safeties that the women couldn't hit and they, the women, had bad exicution on their safeties that let the men in.

It will take time for the women to get comfortable playing men regularly so that they can play their best game. Unless the WPBA gets more events here, they will have to play more against the men and get more comfortable in order to play their best game.

Otherwise, they will have to remain in Asia and Europe playing against the best women there.

That's one of the reasons why these top women stay on top, because the other women cannot respond. The top women are good, but the rest of the women can't pull out a good shot.