I hope the new game goes well for you. I keep forgeting to try it. I just wrote myself a note to try it...old and losing it here
. Johnnyt
TV? Foget About It
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
I hope the new game goes well for you. I keep forgeting to try it. I just wrote myself a note to try it...old and losing it here
. Johnnyt
I hope the new game goes well for you. I keep forgeting to try it. I just wrote myself a note to try it...old and losing it here
I'll trade you, 67 in November
best game yet, and something for you to shhot for.....101:thumbup: Good luck!
Wow, where did this come from?
I asked a simple question and you flammed me. And for that matter, where did I ever say anything about being comparable to the Matrix or being revolutionary?
I make my movies because its something I love, and because I thought people could benefit from it. I dont appreciate someone like yourself flamming me over my efforts.
And as for doing my own research, I created my business from nothing. I didn't know a single person in the industry 2 years ago when I was still in school. I worked my way up the ladder and did what I needed to do to get the job done. As far as Im concerned, that's an achievement that I should be proud of.
I'd say an apology is due here....but whatever. I'd rather contribute than argue over this anymore.
When you come out with a statement that "pool on TV is awful" and then go on to say "I really wish Billiard Club or someone would hire me. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I feel I could make a huge difference in the way the game is portrayed on TV" you can expect that not everyone will want to hear you stroke your own ego and watch you throw out your shoulder vigorously patting yourself on the back.
Pool in its current form on TV is not great but its a shitton better than nothing. The WPBA and Billiards International spend quite a bit of money getting these shows produced and make very little from it, as the only way ESPN will take billiards programming is to swap content for ads. These producers are neither lazy or complacent. They are doing the best they can with the funds they have.
Instead of crapping on those who are at least trying while saying how much better you can do, why don't you go and produce some televised billiards events? Clearly you are more talented than those currently doing it and could teach everyone a thing or two about how to do it right.
As for the asking for contacts thing, all it takes is about five minutes of Googling along with picking up the phone and making a few calls to find all the contacts you need.
You're entitled to your opinion about my movies, but I don't think you're being very fair. I'm not a giant TV network. I wrote, directed, filmed, edited, and produced those movies single handedly. They took me like 3 whole years, without any pay, and were made with hardly any budget. Everything was paid for out of my own pocket.....and haven't made a single penny from them yet.
Bash them all you like, but all things considered, I feel I did a pretty damn good job. Considering the reviews I've had, most other people will agree.
Anyway, enough about that.
Most people feel they can make a difference. I'm one such person. Saying that I'd like to make a run at it doesn't imply that I'm stroking my ego. It simply means that I think I have some good ideas and could contribute to make things better than they currently are. You are right though and I can see how you misunderstood my original message about this, as my message was poorly worded.
Almost everyone who experiences success at some point becomes satisfied with their achievements, and eventually becomes partially complacent. Some companies in the billiard industry have become this way. Many people will argue that Predator is one such company. I feel that *some* TV programming suffers from this complacency. Last time I checked, I was entitled to my opinion.
Making phone calls to ask someone for an email contact is no different than posting on here with a similar request. Either way I'd be asking someone to help me out. Besides, there's nothing wrong with asking for a hand sometimes. Im more than eager to help others out (and have provided people with industry contacts twice this week alone), so why can't I request that other forum members help me out as well? I see no problem with any of this.
Bash them all you like, but all things considered, I feel I did a pretty damn good job. Considering the reviews I've had, most other people will agree.
Anyway, enough about that.
Most people feel they can make a difference. I'm one such person. Saying that I'd like to make a run at it doesn't imply that I'm stroking my ego. It simply means that I think I have some good ideas and could contribute to make things better than they currently are. You are right though and I can see how you misunderstood my original message about this, as my message was poorly worded.
Almost everyone who experiences success at some point becomes satisfied with their achievements, and eventually becomes partially complacent. Some companies in the billiard industry have become this way. Many people will argue that Predator is one such company. I feel that *some* TV programming suffers from this complacency. Last time I checked, I was entitled to my opinion.
Making phone calls to ask someone for an email contact is no different than posting on here with a similar request. Either way I'd be asking someone to help me out. Besides, there's nothing wrong with asking for a hand sometimes. Im more than eager to help others out (and have provided people with industry contacts twice this week alone), so why can't I request that other forum members help me out as well? I see no problem with any of this.
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You are way off base here. Nathan's "Mastering Pool" was LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than any other pool instructional video I've ever seen. Not to discredit anyone else's efforts, but Nathan is one of the very few in this industry that "get it". As for your critics, you clearly don't get it.
I wish people would stop basing decisions in pool on what TV wants in an event. TV wants jump-cues; TV wants short races, TV wants 7-ball and 9-ball, TV wants a limited # of safes, and last but not least they want clapping on every shot, weather it’s a good shot or bad shot.
Well TV got ALL these things and still won’t show any pool live on TV. The little pool shown on TV is a joke. It’s put on months after the original event is over. They still don’t show all the games in 7 game races, and production is awful.
F*** TV. When they want to show pool like they show bowling, golf, and tennis, then worry about them. Until then don’t let them ruin our game anymore than they already have over the last 20 years. JMO…but I’m right. Johnnyt
Mark Griffin owns the BCA pool league and is doing what he can to develop a mens tour. If you want to be in on the ground floor of a movement that may change pool then you should contact Mark.
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I don't believe I ever said his videos were bad. In fact, I believe I said "the videos are fine as pool production goes". My issue is with the fact that he's bashing some very hard working people. The WPBA and Billiards International are not created by "giant TV networks". They are put on by very small groups and then the content is given to ESPN in exchange for the rights to sell some of the commercials when ESPN runs the programming.
We all know there are issues with how pool is displayed on TV. There are a kabillion threads on this forum talking about it. The problem has everything to do with the lack of interactivity. To rehash this conversation, what launched poker into huge business was the "hole cam" and the stats so the layman could understand what was going on at the table. Pool does not have that killer app yet, but they are trying. They've played around with pocket cams, a mock "cue cam" that shows where the cue ball is being hit, even a radar gun for breaking. Just because they haven't found that killer app yet doesn't mean you need to bash these producers and say how you could do it better.
Like I said before, your videos are fine. I never said they weren't. If you think you can do better producing an event for TV though, I suggest you build your book, get some sponsors or investors and get it done.
We all know there are issues with how pool is displayed on TV. There are a kabillion threads on this forum talking about it. The problem has everything to do with the lack of interactivity. To rehash this conversation, what launched poker into huge business was the "hole cam" and the stats so the layman could understand what was going on at the table. Pool does not have that killer app yet, but they are trying. They've played around with pocket cams, a mock "cue cam" that shows where the cue ball is being hit, even a radar gun for breaking. Just because they haven't found that killer app yet doesn't mean you need to bash these producers and say how you could do it better.
Like I said before, your videos are fine. I never said they weren't. If you think you can do better producing an event for TV though, I suggest you build your book, get some sponsors or investors and get it done.
Any company that has $100k or more of production equipment and dozens of employees on set seems pretty big to me.
But anyway, other than that, I agree with you. Pool needs that 'extra something' to get it to appeal to the casual viewer.
I honestly think I know what that 'extra something' is....but...well. I've been flammed enough today for saying that I could contribute to the industry.
But anyway, other than that, I agree with you. Pool needs that 'extra something' to get it to appeal to the casual viewer.
I honestly think I know what that 'extra something' is....but...well. I've been flammed enough today for saying that I could contribute to the industry.
Any company that has $100k or more of production equipment and dozens of employees on set seems pretty big to me.
But anyway, other than that, I agree with you. Pool needs that 'extra something' to get it to appeal to the casual viewer.
I honestly think I know what that 'extra something' is....but...well. I've been flammed enough today for saying that I could contribute to the industry.
Please PM me and I will share something exciting with you.
I wish people would stop basing decisions in pool on what TV wants in an event. TV wants jump-cues; TV wants short races, TV wants 7-ball and 9-ball, TV wants a limited # of safes, and last but not least they want clapping on every shot, weather it’s a good shot or bad shot.
Well TV got ALL these things and still won’t show any pool live on TV. The little pool shown on TV is a joke. It’s put on months after the original event is over. They still don’t show all the games in 7 game races, and production is awful.
F*** TV. When they want to show pool like they show bowling, golf, and tennis, then worry about them. Until then don’t let them ruin our game anymore than they already have over the last 20 years. JMO…but I’m right
Well said Sir.
I think the entire argument is moot. I don't think it matters how pool is presented on TV, as long as it is on TV and doesn't present poolplayers as lowlife gamblers, because any telecast gives the sport recognition, and brings pool as a sport into the consciousness of viewers. Most viewers, including this one, could care less how long the races are, and don't much care what game is being played.
At least here in the USA, pool's biggest problem right now is the seedy image of the poolroom which, far too often, robs the pool scene of the youthful and the affluent, the two demographic groups that combine to hold the key to the future of the sport. Suggesting that TV has failed in its attempts to place pool in a positive light for viewers is, to me, very short-sighted, because until poolrooms follow suit and make their establishments a) the kind of place that the affluent will feel comfortable in, and b) the kind of place that parents will permit their kids to patronize, nothing TV can do will be enough to sell pool to those demographic groups.
One thing that helps poker's image a lot is the presence of so many well-educated, successful people in its highest ranks. Lawyers, CPA's, financiers, and stock/commodity/options traders, pop up on a regular basis on the poker telecasts I watch. Pool, still viewed by most as a game catering to the less affluent, does not enjoy this advantage.
In short, televised pool can be brought down to the level of the poolroom but I, personally, would hate to see that happen. My hope for the future is that the poolroom can stop negating the TV or internet message that pool is a game suitable for all, and not a game in which the gambling/hustler types will be far too numerous to steer clear of.
Just one man's opinion.
At least here in the USA, pool's biggest problem right now is the seedy image of the poolroom which, far too often, robs the pool scene of the youthful and the affluent, the two demographic groups that combine to hold the key to the future of the sport. Suggesting that TV has failed in its attempts to place pool in a positive light for viewers is, to me, very short-sighted, because until poolrooms follow suit and make their establishments a) the kind of place that the affluent will feel comfortable in, and b) the kind of place that parents will permit their kids to patronize, nothing TV can do will be enough to sell pool to those demographic groups.
One thing that helps poker's image a lot is the presence of so many well-educated, successful people in its highest ranks. Lawyers, CPA's, financiers, and stock/commodity/options traders, pop up on a regular basis on the poker telecasts I watch. Pool, still viewed by most as a game catering to the less affluent, does not enjoy this advantage.
In short, televised pool can be brought down to the level of the poolroom but I, personally, would hate to see that happen. My hope for the future is that the poolroom can stop negating the TV or internet message that pool is a game suitable for all, and not a game in which the gambling/hustler types will be far too numerous to steer clear of.
Just one man's opinion.
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It would be nice if pool had it's own channel. Since there are so many different kinds of pool, they should televise them all. Let the viewers decide what they want to watch. But I can agree that the production of current pool matches leaves much to be desired.
I like the idea of showing hustling in pool as entertainment. No actors, I would just like to see the tension and the different style players from all around the country. Interviews would be nice, kind like they do with UFC fighters before their big matches. Just show their faces and let them talk smack about the other player.
No matter where you go in this country. There is usually a large pool following. Extrapalate that across the entire country. There are a LOT of pool players and a lot of people that like to watch pool. It's just never on to watch and it's not interesting enough.
I like the idea of showing hustling in pool as entertainment. No actors, I would just like to see the tension and the different style players from all around the country. Interviews would be nice, kind like they do with UFC fighters before their big matches. Just show their faces and let them talk smack about the other player.
No matter where you go in this country. There is usually a large pool following. Extrapalate that across the entire country. There are a LOT of pool players and a lot of people that like to watch pool. It's just never on to watch and it's not interesting enough.
Take UFC for example. This isn't exactly a sport that parents want to allow their children to harness. But it has made the biggest impact of any sport in the past 20 years. There's something about seeing a man beat the shit out of someone, that keeps people coming back. If pool was televised like it usually is portrayed (in real pool rooms), I think there is enough excitement and darkness that will bring more followers. Yea, comparing UFC to billiards is a long stretch. But, honestly, the more down to earth and nasty it is, the more the audience is going to want to watch it.
An interesting post, but pool isn't competing with boxing, wrestling, or UFC. If you think that the pro pool product can be redeveloped and remarketed as a man-to-man combat type of sport, all I can say is that I've never really thought about it.
TAR stands for The Action Report. It's a group of people who help set up action matches between pro's in different billiard disciplines. They live stream the events also. Great site and good billiard influence. Check them out http://www.theactionreport.com/
whoops. I see muddog got that covered
there is no effort being put into pool on TV in the US
no money in it...
but MAN O MAN look at snooker
the camera angles the sweet "Hawkeye" system...
that thing is cool it gives a tv viewer a 3D view of the shot..
check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llFk30Y8g6o&feature=PlayList&p=F30060495992E0D0&index=0
the first use of hawkeye is about 6 minutes in.. but they use it several times if you watch the whole match.
why are we not doing stuff like this for US pool
the camera angles the 3D view the overall production value...
snooker is done right... we should take some notes...JMO
no money in it...
but MAN O MAN look at snooker
the camera angles the sweet "Hawkeye" system...
that thing is cool it gives a tv viewer a 3D view of the shot..
check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llFk30Y8g6o&feature=PlayList&p=F30060495992E0D0&index=0
the first use of hawkeye is about 6 minutes in.. but they use it several times if you watch the whole match.
why are we not doing stuff like this for US pool
the camera angles the 3D view the overall production value...
snooker is done right... we should take some notes...JMO
I have no explanation why races for TV are not longer. They already edit the shorter races for the one hour granted for a telecast, so what difference the race length makes to the network is beyond me. Why does it matter how long the race is, they will still only have time to show about the same number of complete games. So just show highlights and recap the games being edited out like they do already. I just don't get why the race length matters to television.
This one I don't get. How many TV telecasts are randomly choosing what matches to broadcast? They are quite deliberately chosen and the ones chosen are usually the semi-finals and final. Who plays in these matches is determined by the players in competition - it's not a random pick. Perhaps in some events like the Mosconi Cup they are choosing certain matches for the coverage of a day's matches to put on TV but I highly doubt they do it randomly. More likely it was the more interesting or exciting matches or matches involving known players. Again, not random. If you are saying that people would rather watch a first round match between Mika and Efren than the final involving two lesser knowns, I would say that is debatable.
Personally I think the variety of games that can be played is one of the great things about pool. But in any event television has chosen one game to represent pool to the masses and that is rotation play. Almost always 9 Ball, but once in a great while 10 Ball or that screwy 7 Ball. But the rules are essentially the same for all of them so I don't really see this as much of an issue.
I'm not sure what the problem is or how to fix it. Forget about the non-player for a moment. I'm not sure the non-player was ever a factor in ratings of pool on television even when the ratings were higher. But it just seems that for whatever reason, the pool playing public just doesn't watch pool on TV like they used to. Frankly I don't think the pool playing public supports professional pool as much as it used to in any way.
Straight pool used to be televised nationally on major networks, and thousands would attend these matches in person. Neither of these is true anymore. We all know it doesn't attract a TV audience. And I was at the recent Predator 10 Ball event. It was a terrific tournament full of world class players and compelling matches. Trust me when I tell you I doubt there more than 100 people in attendance at any session. If you watched the semis and final on the internet you would have noticed had you been there you could have sat at one of the empty seats ringside. And keep in mind that this was staged alongside the BCA 8 Ball Nationals where there were literally thousands of serious pool players no further than down the hall from the event that could have attended with very little effort.
So I just think the problem is way deeper seeded than longer races with marquee stars only playing whatever the one pool game is that is deemed most attractive to television.
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