TVmike has proven untrustworthy

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sde said:
What do you feel is a fair percentage for the players to be paid?
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Anywhere from 5-25% depending on the event, how much time they are used. Just like in show biz, the longer you have screen time the more $$$ you make. Or a flat rate based on projected sales of a video. If it wasnt for them, there wouldnt be videos.


If they got advance $$$, then when the videos make it to YouTube they got paid before hand.

I have given this thought lots of analysis and the players MUST be paid.

I dont have all the answers, I'm not in the biz, but you can be sure what ever I have my hands in it they get paid. And they always will. So far I'm 3 for 3; and its only gonna get better. I'm not a pimp**, I believe the players should come first.

**I'm not knocking anyone here with this statement, I'm just talking about me. Not what others have done, Pat, JCIN have been good to the players. I dont know about anyone else and how they manage their biz, so I'm not referring to them or judging them-I cant cause I dont know everything. I have a lot to learn. But this thread is pathetic, I hope it works out.
 
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jay helfert said:
You don't get it Eric. That's correct.
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To say it again, your right I have a lot to learn. and am man enough to admit it I have lots to learn and am wrong often.


Most men I know cant admit when they are wrong, they are too weak, so they blow up in outrage and sling insults to deflect the issue. Say things that are not true, to protect their ego's. They are more concerned with their image than their brains. Short term that works, long term the smart guys win.


I'll address anything head on and stand corrected, the moment of pain is the moment of growth. Thats how I got where I'm at in life. Not being afraid to learn.


But whats just as important is players must get paid.


respectfully,

Eric:)
 
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Jay I’m sorry but your making absolutely no sense. I may be ranting but I’m extremely well educated on the subjects I may be “ranting” about.

Thanks for telling on myself? I’m not even sure you read or remember what you or other people say when even read back to you in your own words really. Oh yeah I received money from DCC? What are you possibly talking about I paid gas and spent over $600 while I was there and it would of cost me a ton more if it weren’t for the hospitality of Jason hunt whom was a stranger to me but saw it in his heart to help me by letting me stay in his room. You didn’t pay me ANYTHING so how did I make any money, I think I got home with like $10 in my pocket. You paid me $250 to prepare video author and master DVDS then you purchased the DVDS that I made that you wanted me to make and you bought them so how is it I made any money? Originally you expect me to send you these DVDS then have you pay me after the fact you sell them. Excuse me but me selling a couple DVDS in such low numbers 5-10 copies at the most is not even something to consider into the equation. To just to get any little bit of my money back slowly is all I hoped for. Just because they are on my list doesn’t mean they blow off the shelves.

I don’t even know how you can say these things that “you are out money” YOU PAID me to do the necessary video work to author and master the DVDS then you paid me to make them and my half of the money upfront as we agreed. How can you even sit there and say that I got money from DCC. It’s absurd and just because you are some pool legend does not put you above anyone else. If you are expecting to take advantage of people then that is a show of a huge flaw in YOUR character not mine.

And it’s you who still has not paid for the work I provided but I guess by “principal” it’s ok to let someone else pay for your debts. If it wasn’t for that guy who fronted me your payment I would be in a much tougher place now while you gallivant around the country and plan world trips I’m sitting here giving my heart my soul and getting next to nothing back.

And you know what I’m done with it.
 
TVmike said:
And you know what I’m done with it.
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bianca_eyeroll.gif
 
Fatboy2 said:
To say it again, your right I have a lot to learn. and am man enough to admit it I have lots to learn and am wrong often.


Most men I know cant admit when they are wrong, they are too weak, so they blow up in outrage and sling insults to deflect the issue. Say things that are not true, to protect their ego's. They are more concerned with their image than their brains. Short term that works, long term the smart guys win.


I'll address anything head on and stand corrected, the moment of pain is the moment of growth. Thats how I got where I'm at in life. Not being afraid to learn.


But whats just as important is players must get paid.


respectfully,

Eric:)
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What you don't get is it's not about the money eric.. this was posted in public for a good reason.. to warn people about future dealings with this man.

$410 may not be anything to you, but to me if I lost that much to this guy ( and i'm sure I speak for many here ) it could be devastating.
 
TVmike said:
Jay I’m sorry but your making absolutely no sense. I may be ranting but I’m extremely well educated on the subjects I may be “ranting” about.

Thanks for telling on myself? I’m not even sure you read or remember what you or other people say when even read back to you in your own words really. Oh yeah I received money from DCC? What are you possibly talking about I paid gas and spent over $600 while I was there and it would of cost me a ton more if it weren’t for the hospitality of Jason hunt whom was a stranger to me but saw it in his heart to help me by letting me stay in his room. You didn’t pay me ANYTHING so how did I make any money, I think I got home with like $10 in my pocket. You paid me $250 to prepare video author and master DVDS then you purchased the DVDS that I made that you wanted me to make and you bought them so how is it I made any money? Originally you expect me to send you these DVDS then have you pay me after the fact you sell them. Excuse me but me selling a couple DVDS in such low numbers 5-10 copies at the most is not even something to consider into the equation. To just to get any little bit of my money back slowly is all I hoped for. Just because they are on my list doesn’t mean they blow off the shelves.

I don’t even know how you can say these things that “you are out money” YOU PAID me to do the necessary video work to author and master the DVDS then you paid me to make them and my half of the money upfront as we agreed. How can you even sit there and say that I got money from DCC. It’s absurd and just because you are some pool legend does not put you above anyone else. If you are expecting to take advantage of people then that is a show of a huge flaw in YOUR character not mine.

And it’s you who still has not paid for the work I provided but I guess by “principal” it’s ok to let someone else pay for your debts. If it wasn’t for that guy who fronted me your payment I would be in a much tougher place now while you gallivant around the country and plan world trips I’m sitting here giving my heart my soul and getting next to nothing back.

And you know what I’m done with it.
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:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::speechless:
 
The rants about money made me think of this: http://youtu.be/_dmPchuXIXQ

It's long but its actually a good "watch" if you have never seen it. All 5 videos can be found ,,, if you look.

This thread could make it along side the funnypic/gif thread. And some of the comments fit right in!!! :)
 
Fatboy2 said:
all over a few dollars, i just dont get it. i hope the players get paid:cool:
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Not a slam on ya, Eric, but you are currently fortunate enough that $400 is just a few dollars to you.

That's a decent chunk of change to many folks. I know I could use an extra $400 right now. (Just making a point.)

Thats' above and beyond the principal of the issue, which is a whole other thing.

As for hoping the players get paid, I agree with you, in theory. I think that if you start expecting that players get paid anytime they are on video, there will be no more pool video, period. Maybe TAR and Accustats. And since we don't have pool on TV, folks wouldn't see much pool anymore. How will that grow the game, and make for bigger and better payouts at bigger and better tournaments?

I believe getting the players paid is a great idea. Why not start with the tournament directors who don't pay the players first?
 
Get a real job

TVmike said:
Someone told me that if I did this event and people wanted DVDS as a memorial then I can’t be the one to provide them because everyone will want them for free in the hundreds and obviously there is no way I could possibly do that. So I offered them for $1 for family members and way discounted cost for others to help facilitate the $1 cost for the family members. I have already done the event for free out of pocket and have come out of pocket more while the whole time I have no business even literally going out of the house. So forgive me if I try to recoup some of my losses and costs back by making DVDS of the matches I record. If people choose to not support it, it doesn’t surprise me, they don’t donate or purchase dvds for the most part either but I will not be streaming events anymore even for free unless I want to if I can’t even afford to go out of the house. Even when I charge for events I do it next to nothing Yet I am the enemy because I share my “business” because I’m not a business man.
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Mr. Mike, I think the correct way to solve your problems would be " You need to go out and get a real job ". You know the one, you work 40 hours a week and you actually get a paycheck every week...for the" ACTUAL HOURS OF WORK." Your mental capacity for streaming Pool is about 2 %. This is the last time I will post on this subject, because we already know where the blame lies. If you were to sit down and read this thread from it's beginning of the actual responses that you made to the comments, I don't see how you can say that you weren't the cause of most of the problems. YOU NEED TO BE A MAN ABOUT IT, AND STEP UP AND ADMIT THAT YOU CREATED THESE PROBLEMS AND APOLOGIZE TO THE PEOPLE YOU OFFENDED. You have passed the buck on the blame for this whole mess along to everyone else but you. I hope you get your act together and do what is right. I've had to bite my tongue many times and I think it's about time you bite yours and end this and give yourself a chance to start over again, if that is possible. If you are to stream pool again, you need to sit down with someone that also streams pool, and knows how it should be done and take the time to learn how to do it the right way. I love the game of Pool and I hope you finally get your act together, and do the right thing. Pool doesn't need all of the negative feedback that this thread brought.
 
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While agree with Eric that the players need to be paid, we are talking about a Memorial/Benefit tournament here right? No one except the family should benefit from the Tourney.

TV Mike should have known that going in and not asked for a PENNY from anyone. Or he should not have even shown up to stream.
 
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:wave3: hey mike! Looks like your gonna be working at walmart now! It doesn't sound like you have the brain power to do anything else! :rotflmao1: give it up dude, no one wants to support your sketchy business anymore. Have fun making $250.00 a week (if that)! A benefit for someone else doesn't mean helping yourself! Piece of trash........... After I found out the details of what happened to Dawn, and then seeing what you had to say, I'm just sickened. No wonder Jason Hunt took you in, he recognized a fellow scum bag!
 
Fatboy2 said:
all over a few dollars, i just dont get it. i hope the players get paid:cool:
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Pool is nowhere near where people want it to be or think it should be. This isn't golf, tennis or poker. To survive as a professional pool player, you eat what you kill. Pool players have been taken advantage of many many times because of lack of money, lack of proper direction and business knowledge. At the same time, exposure is exposure and you never know what could come out of it.

Lets take a look at golf for example and their most popular player, Tiger Woods. Tiger makes dough, we all know that. When he's playin in the field, no matter if he's in first or last, he's on tv. Golf on TV exploded when Tiger came around. Everyone involved profited. CBS, ESPN, NBC etc went to town putting golf on tv. However, Tiger doesn't get paid a penny from the networks. The PGA and whatever network produces the coverage that event own the rights to all of that footage to use, sell or show however they see fit. When Nike wants to make a Tiger commercial with some of his historic shots, Nike pays the PGA rights to that footage. The PGA provides Tiger with a platform to play, money to be won and the opportunity to sponsors.

Now that might not be the same for all things. I'm not sure how poker on tv works. They may pay the poker players an appearance fee. That, I'm not sure of. Maybe Dippy could chime in on that.

But to be honest, the pool world is almost better to the players than big time sports. TAR for example pays the players a flat rate for all of their PPV events. The problem is, pool doesn't have the coverage of golf. They don't have the big dollar sponsors or huge market to push products on like golf. Its just a small community of people with larger than life expectations. You cannot blame the players for thinking the sky SHOULD be the limit, it just doesn't work like that.

So by the players being on dvds, live streams etc, they might be making money directly from this they may in the future. I know I'm more likely to donate to Alex or Efren because of the magic they've shown me on my computer screen than some mid level professional that never makes the tv table. Or even lessons... I can't imagine Alex being a good instuctor, bouncing around and busting into Elvis every 10 minutes is not a great learning environment, but I would pay $100/hour to hear what he has to say.

So while he may make $0 from his one pocket challenge dvd from Jay/tv mike, he can win a couple hundred playing me because of it and more than likely make more than jay/tvmike do off dvd sales.
 
jason said:
I get it now Fatboy. It is clearly about principal and not just a few dollars.
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thats what I was thinking, its a principal thing, and ignotant to waste so much time just to be right. All I want is the $$$ when I do biz, I cant pay my bills because I won a beef and was right on principal. Thats the part I still dont understand, let it die. It didnt work out-move on to the next deal. Stubbornness only costs time, and if a person values their time they move on.

I'd rather say "yep I was wrong" and move on to the next deal and make more $$, not stuck on something.

Thats what I really dont get, I never met a rich man who wastes time.
 
poolhustler said:
While agree with Eric that the players need to be paid, we are talking about a Memorial/Benefit tournament here right? No one exccept the family should benefit from the Tourney.

TV Mike should have known that going in and not asked for a PENNY from anyone. Or he should not have even shown up to stream.
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I also agree that the players should get paid. It is not my intent to speak for Eric but I think his main concern is the "Pro Players'' in higher profile events. Eric please correct me if I'm wrong.

I also agree that only the family should benefit from the tourney. Trust me I'm not sticking up for tvmike here but this is how I would have handled this if I had been asked to stream the tourney, which was only 63 minute drive for me.

First I would have made it clear to all concerned that I would be donating my time to the benefit tourney and being a poor man my expenses would have to be covered. The sale of DVDs would have been made know during the stream and orders for DVDs could have been taken at that time as well as later. I would have been asking and promoting to all the players in the tourney to buy this DVD set and to anyone else in ear shot.

To cover my expenses I would have taken or asked for the first $$$ to cover fuel and $1.00 for each DVD that had to be mailed. After that expense has been met, EVERY PENNY would have stayed/gone to the family.

I would have urged the family to set up a PayPal account and all payments go directly to them. This would have made everyone online more comfortable with making a donation to receive DVD, not having to trust me to do the right thing.

For example:
DVD sells for $10 minus $1 for shipping = $9 to the family.
The first 4-5 DVDs cover my fuel costs and the family makes $9 per DVD after that.
Or a 3 disc set that sells for $15-20 minus $2 for cost is dics and shipping.

I would guess that 40-50 could have been pre-sold at the tourney and who knows how many more sold here on AZB.

Bottom line is I break even and the family could make a few hundred or more.

Steve
 
justadub said:
Not a slam on ya, Eric, but you are currently fortunate enough that $400 is just a few dollars to you.

That's a decent chunk of change to many folks. I know I could use an extra $400 right now. (Just making a point.)

Thats' above and beyond the principal of the issue, which is a whole other thing.

As for hoping the players get paid, I agree with you, in theory. I think that if you start expecting that players get paid anytime they are on video, there will be no more pool video, period. Maybe TAR and Accustats. And since we don't have pool on TV, folks wouldn't see much pool anymore. How will that grow the game, and make for bigger and better payouts at bigger and better tournaments?

I believe getting the players paid is a great idea. Why not start with the tournament directors who don't pay the players first?
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Its not a slam, it is a piece of $$, and for some people that $400 might be worth 10 hours others it might be worth 40 hours. So its a bit different for all of us. But whats not different is when anyone spends more time on something than its worth they end up losing $$. I'd rather lose the battle and not the war.

The reason $400 aint to much to me any more? Its easy I put a price on my time, if the price of the time necessary to get the $400 exceeds the time. Then I'll lose the battle.


See this how I manage myself, I define what my time is worth. And based on that I do biz according to those rules. Right now I haven't made $$$ to speak of in 3 years so my time is cheap(why i'm here for example). I redefine the value of my time often-depending on circumstances.

I been practicing writing so this isnt a total waste of time. And guess what my books will be about? Making money & self improvement. I'm learning to spell and type etc. Every successful person puts a price tag on their time. Thats all i'm saying. I respect $$$ and $400 is $400 no matter how i'm holding.


best

eric
 
Fatboy2 said:
I been practicing writing so this isnt a total waste of time. And guess what my books will be about? Making money & self improvement. I'm learning to spell and type etc. Every successful person puts a price tag on their time. Thats all i'm saying. I respect $$$ and $400 is $400 no matter how i'm holding.


best

eric
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Your writing has gotten quite a bit better in the short time that I've been here and aware that you were conciously working on it. That's cool, the self-improvement drive you are on. And to do it publicly takes brass, as well. Nice.

Take care, and keep posting. It doesn't matter what you comment on, I always make it a point to read what you have to say.

(It is quite funny, everytime you mention that you're working on your writing skills, I make a MUCH better effort at how I write my posts. :p Thanks!)
 
I think the main problem here is Mike's inablity to make his fees and full details of what his end will entail up front. You cannot do business by starting with one point then realising there is more time and cost involved then originally figured, then change the agreement during and after the process. This is very sneaky, untrustworthy, and simply the wrong way to go about it. BUT, in the end the customer is always right, people come back to the businesses that go out of their way to make them happy. Sometimes you gotta lose a little money to make more in the long run by creating lasting customer relationships.

Now as for the remarks on suicide, cashing in on the benefit tourney, along with the way he has handled this situation I myself have personally lost all respect. Not that anyone providing a service isn't entitled to make a profit, but just the details of handling the situations in general. I support all the streamers bringing live pool to us as in my thoughts of pool being a small community streaming is the future. I have helped BigTruck, Lenny, and a few others with the chat setup on Ustream and have asked for nothing in return as my little bit of work to help provide a better product to the community is my pleasure to do so. And I will continue to support the streamers and lend a hand to any of them.

I will however not support anything TV Mike has any involvement with. You seriously need to get a job and possibly even some professional help Mike. I wish nothing bad on anyone, but you have some serious issues the really need to be dealt with before you continue to deal with the public in any business manner.

I sincerely hope you can see what people are saying in this thread and make yourself a better person for your future. Good luck to you.
 
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