What center cueball has done for "The Blade"Stevie Moore

[SouthernDraw]

To be fair, I don't think PJ approaches these claims with an closed mind. In fact I think he actually admits these things work. (you may have to decipher his admission from time to time) But he points out the errors in the explanation behind the claims.

This post wasn't meant to say that he was closed minded. It is reason to bring people together so that they see that there is a person to each poster. And possibly by bringing people together, they begin seeing each other as human beings rather than usernames and avatars (both of which are usually fictional). This would result in conversations being more civil, between friends with a mutual interest in the benefit of pool.

This is a problem with every forum.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

[pj] really hates those of us that have learned the Gospel of Stan "THE MAN" Shuffet...

CTE/Pro1 is another system with illogical claims about how it works and a fanbase of True Believers who fight tooth and nail against any logical heresy. The same few guys are falling over themselves to get to CJ's "secrets" and complaining here about having "their" threads interrupted with facts. Some of the personalities go back 15 years or more where we had the same disagreements about Hal Houle's "3 angles" fractional system on RSB.

pj
chgo

 

[JoeyInCali]

CTE/Pro1 is another system with illogical claims about how it works and a fanbase of True Believers who fight tooth and nail against any logical heresy. The same few guys are falling over themselves to get to CJ's "secrets" and complaining here about having "their" threads interrupted with facts. Some of the personalities go back 15 years or more where we had the same disagreements about Hal Houle's "3 angles" fractional system on RSB.

pj
chgo

Efren learned it too back then.

 

[JC]

CTE/Pro1 is another system with illogical claims about how it works and a fanbase of True Believers who fight tooth and nail against any logical heresy. The same few guys are falling over themselves to get to CJ's "secrets" and complaining here about having "their" threads interrupted with facts. Some of the personalities go back 15 years or more where we had the same disagreements about Hal Houle's "3 angles" fractional system on RSB.

pj
chgo

Patrick you are reminding me of the guy who drove past the last gas station knowing they couldn't make it to the next one. Pedal to the metal until the fumes go dry. Adiós buddy:smile:

Buy the snake oil from the pros if you can afford it. If you love the game it's the least you can do. After all few of them will ever earn as much as those of us casual amateur players with a conventional career and they understand that. They're just trying to get by doing what they love. Cut them some slack.

JC

 

[SouthernDraw]

I understand the techniques. The misstatements I correct are simple factual matters that don't address whether the techniques work, but how they do.

It's remarkable that those who claim to be the most eager to learn these techniques aren't interested in taking a close look at the claims made for them. It's almost like they don't want their faith contradicted.

pj
chgo

I have taken lessons and learned the "Holy Grail" technique. After learning it and seeing that it does work, I still don't use the system and I agree with what you are saying. You have an excellent point. But that wasn't the spirit of the post.

I would just like to see the postings become more civil and not be personal attacks. It would make our experience on this site much more enjoyable and productive. We would find many lurkers finally posting instead of being too shy for fear of being intimidated by posters. I used to go to a forum from my alma mater and it became so rude that I just stopped going to it. We were all wanting the same thing but college-educated folks couldn't be civil. I am sure that there are many people that feel the same way as I do. Possibly even you.

 

[Mikjary]

I read the pro posts on here and take the info to the table. I struggle to understand the concepts just like almost everybody else. Forming an opinion before exhaustive research and implementation on the table stunts the discussion.

The armchair geek that discredits a professional opinion because of, "I do this and that happens", has built a wall of personal pride that can't be overcome. Their posting rep is at stake, so they peck away at each and every turn.

Instead of using their analytical processes to clarify and further the discussion, they alienate all reading by putting up roadblocks and questioning the pro's sanity and intellect. They're pool players. Not Rhodes Scholars and probably don't hold a secondary degree. But in our world, they have the smarts and see things from another perspective of which we can only hope to one day get a taste.

IOW, stop being such a ***** and contribute to the discussion without making snide comments about intelligence and being a groupie because we try to improve our pitiful games. It's important to us and we take offense when we're ridiculed for putting out an honest effort. Which you seem to employ more in front of the computer screen instead of at the room.

To your credit, you're probably on of the most knowledgeable posters in pooldom. The problem is, like others, you let it go to your head. You create animosity instead of stimulating others with your needling. You're not a bully, but people feel like they've been assaulted when they discuss points with you. I'm not the only one who feels this way, guaranteed.

Best,
Mike

 

[UGOTDA7]

If you just want to be given a fish that may be true. If you want to learn to fish, it certainly isn't.

pj
chgo

What are your fishing credentials?

Thanks.

 

[stan shuffett]

CTE/Pro1 is another system with illogical claims about how it works and a fanbase of True Believers who fight tooth and nail against any logical heresy. The same few guys are falling over themselves to get to CJ's "secrets" and complaining here about having "their" threads interrupted with facts. Some of the personalities go back 15 years or more where we had the same disagreements about Hal Houle's "3 angles" fractional system on RSB.

pj
chgo

Pj,

I am sick and tired of you saying what I do is illogical or whatever without direct evidence. You have never even offered 1 single shot that does not work or presented one specific gap for CTE PRO ONE. I have offered you opportunities to debate me on this at a table giving you 2/1 on the money and you decline. But yet you continue to attack what I do.

AZ members that think I am offering snake oil or illogical claims are invited to my teaching facility this spring to see what I do first- hand and report back to this forum.

I am tired of your crap, PJ and I do not care much about posting concerning CTE because of you.

You are DEAD wrong about CTE.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Jaden]

I had to laugh at this....

Do we have any expert that would give PJ a free lesson as an experiment if he was willing to approach it with an open mind. He would find it useful or not useful. It seems that if he tried it and it didn't work, he could report why he didn't like it or visa versa. But most importantly it could bring the sides together so that everyone starts to view each other as people and not as usernames or avatars. There has to be a more logical way of breeding a culture of civility than just banning people. But that all starts with us... the users and keeping the moderator out of it.

You actually postulated that PJ and an open mind were potentially synonimous....ROTFLMAO.....

Those two things (PJ and an open mind) are about as dichotomous as you can get.

Jaden

 

[Okie]

What center cue ball has done for me

I've been playing pool for approximately 29 years. For the first 23 years of my life I had never had any instruction. No books, no videos, and no one on one instructor to show me the flaws in my stroke or even what I should be looking at to aim. Little did I know I had been playing all this time with a flawed stroke. It was all feel and trial and error. What a long an lonely road. Not a bad one tho. I've had lots of fun learning this wonderful game. But oh if I knew then what I know now. Lol! High insight. What I did have was determination. N I got this from my mama. Thank ya mama! I love you always!

Lucky me I ran up on Stan and Landon Shuffett in 2006 for the first time in Los Angeles CA. At that tournament I approached him about learning how to teach. As soon as I stopped talkin he confidently said. Not only will i teach you how to teach, I will guarantee to improve your game by a minimum of 10%. At that time, I was considered top 20 in the country as far as I was concerned and 10% didn't really strike me as being much of an improvement. Oh how ignorant I was. Lol! I thought whatever. Just show me some stuff so I can have some information to maybe explain some things to people that were interested in getting instruction from me. I was working as a bartender at Mr Cues 2 in Atlanta,Ga and I was getting a few folks interested in instruction but I was clueless. I gave a few lessons and could clearly see I had no idea what the hell I was talking about other than make that ball and go two rails with outside english for position on this ball. I was a doer not a teacher. All that changed in the first 10 minutes of my week long session with Stan. It's was one of the most happiest times in my life to learn information on things that I had been doing for 20 something years with no real training. Was a blessing.

I had heard of Stan and Landon back in 2000 while I was in Kentucky hustlin pool. For some reason tho I decided not to go and try to gamble with Stan. Fate has it. Was one of the best decisions of my life. Sometime around April 2007 I was invited by Stan to stay at his home and learn how to teach. Little did i know the impact of this meeting. He shared with me the knowledge that I needed in becoming the best player I could possibly be. Don't get me wrong I had the pattern play the safeties the percentages of the right shot. But I lacked routine, basic cueing knowledge and definitely did not know how to aim. Well he gave me this knowledge and I knew there was work to be done in my own game. After seeing and learning these principals I knew I was on my way to becoming a much better player and possibly number 1 ranked player in the US which has been a dream of mine since i had started playing. A much better player I am from learning CTE/Pro One guaranteed. Learning to stroke straight was another piece to the puzzle. Well, I finally got it. It's been a process but what else did I have to do!

With this being said you go and play pool with your spin and you'll be left behind to CTE/Pro One and center cueball! Good Luck with whatever you choose.

"The Blade" Stevie Moore

HOMETOWN

Spartanburg SC

TITLES

Over 100 Southeast Regional Titles
1995 World Bar Table Champion
7 Time Seminole 10 Ball Pro Tour Champion
2007 Derby City Bank Champion
2008 Steve Mizerak Champion
2009 US Bar Table 8 Ball Champion
2009&2010 NYC Champion
2010 Turning Stone XVl Runner Up
2011 New England Hall of Fame Champion
2012 US Bar Table 10 Ball Runner Up
2012 Derby City 9 Ball Runner Up
2012 Derby City Fat Boy 10 Ball Challenge Runner Up
2012 Players Championship Runner Up

Thank you Mr. Moore! Please...PLEASE ignore those who would derail a thread like this (both sides of the fight). There are many of us out here reading and learning from those willing to share. But as players of a more humble standing we tend to stay quiet so it is kinda hard to tell we are benefiting from your involvement.

I promise you I have gained a lot of insight into the game from the experts here!

The game is the teacher! It is Art! It is Science!



Thank you!

Ken

 

[ENGLISH!]

I read the pro posts on here and take the info to the table. I struggle to understand the concepts just like almost everybody else. Forming an opinion before exhaustive research and implementation on the table stunts the discussion.

The armchair geek that discredits a professional opinion because of, "I do this and that happens", has built a wall of personal pride that can't be overcome. Their posting rep is at stake, so they peck away at each and every turn.

Instead of using their analytical processes to clarify and further the discussion, they alienate all reading by putting up roadblocks and questioning the pro's sanity and intellect. They're pool players. Not Rhodes Scholars and probably don't hold a secondary degree. But in our world, they have the smarts and see things from another perspective of which we can only hope to one day get a taste.

IOW, stop being such a ***** and contribute to the discussion without making snide comments about intelligence and being a groupie because we try to improve our pitiful games. It's important to us and we take offense when we're ridiculed for putting out an honest effort. Which you seem to employ more in front of the computer screen instead of at the room.

To your credit, you're probably on of the most knowledgeable posters in pooldom. The problem is, like others, you let it go to your head. You create animosity instead of stimulating others with your needling. You're not a bully, but people feel like they've been assaulted when they discuss points with you. I'm not the only one who feels this way, guaranteed. View attachment 257508

Best,
Mike

Good Post Mike.

 

[Prodigy1]

Just ordered the dvd. I'll post reviews once i get it.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

So there are pro players "sharing misinformation" but they perform at a high level, are very involved in the sport, give lessons, get thanked repeatedly by lots of posters daily, and don't have a problem staying away from the ban hammer.

Then there are a couple of guys who "identify the lies" spread by these pro players, don't perform at a very high level that anyone knows of, don't play or attend major tournaments, don't have any well know students to show off, get into agruments on here daily, and have repeatedly been banned.

Hhmmm, looks pretty clear to me who is winning and losing.

Mahna - I always like your posts. This post happens to be the singularity of a huge range of topics and types of posters here on azb.

In fact, you have it summarized so brilliantly, it should be made into a sticky.

 

[duckie]

With this being said you go and play pool with your spin and you'll be left behind to CTE/Pro One and center cueball! Good Luck with whatever you choose.

Its this kinda of statement that is the heart of the problem. This implies that if you don't do as recommended in the statement, you will not improve. And of course, there is no proof to back up your statement.

Are you saying that you never use any kind of spin ever? This includes draw and follow.

You really didn't write anything about what center ball has done for you, but rather that you learn how to teach, which has nothing to do with center ball.

For me, center ball is used in two ways. One is type of hit on the ball, IE, the cue tip hits in the center of the ball on the equator of the ball.

The other is understanding the angle of attack of the cue as it related to the actual center of the ball. The center of the ball being the center of the sphere.

To me, center ball has nothing to do with any aiming system but the stroke.

Center ball can be used with any system, why then when coupled with your wares, is any better than when center ball is coupled with ghost ball?

Or are you really saying that your wares doesn't work with anything other then center ball? If so, that's a big limitation right there.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

If you just want to be given a fish that may be true. If you want to learn to fish, it certainly isn't.

pj
chgo

That's incorrect. In fact, the truth is quite the opposite. Playing superb pool is about reducing variables and swing thoughts down to a "video game" level. Not about introducing variables (the side-effects of the "why") into real-life game play.

If you were fishing for yourself and the yellow lure caught fish and the red one didn't, you'd never waste time studying why the red lure dogged it, you'd just keep snapping jaws back with the yellow one. Maybe the yellow one is a plastic bird -- not even something a fish eats--- who knows, who cares, it just works-- and eating is what matters. The red one can be a Rebel crayfish and it's supposed to work with all logic, but can't catch shit.

You can't get out of the way of the minutia and always strive to maximize the micro vs the macro.

Mahna made a good point. You've never posted any videos showing your playing prowess; yet you feel "qualified" to "grade" CJ's posts. To be fair, it's not just you--- Duckie is another one who follows around CJ just to knock his posts--- he's a self-proclaimed APA 4 or 5 player.

I mean, if either of you guys could post up a decent run or string some racks on video, maybe your critiques would hold more juice.

I think AZB has been tremendously patient with guys like you, honestly. For YEARS you and your crew fought hard to chase away the pros to the point where NONE remained and those who thought about posting, were told not to by their peers.

Now that we have a few pros posting again, you guys are trying HARD to get rid of them -- par for the course for you guys. If this were my forum, I WOULD give pros special attention. I WOULD give pros the help they needed to feel comfortable. I WOULD ban those who attacked them for sharing "their" information and "their" view of the game.

It's the PROS who bring value to a forum like this--- not the self-proclaimed expert academics with no playing history to speak of.

I hope Mike/Jerry/Wilson protect the very few pros we have here. The other pros who have since left us did so because they weren't the "writing mechanics" that their detractors clearly were and quickly found themselves "out-posted and out-witted" every time they dared say anything.

In fact, every tour pro should be made a moderator here. If they think someone is knocking them or being a blatant jerk -- they can BAN them themselves. That's NOT to say players can't disagree with them. If they do, they should be careful to do so in a polite and respectful way, NEVER implying or injecting insults (like PJ, Duckie, Lou Figueroa, and the crew).

Bartram should be the action room / main mod, CJ/Stevie can mod the aiming section, Fran can mod the ask the instructor forum, etc. Make this a forum were pros feel protected and let them have the JUICE required to feel like this place is their HOME.

Force guys like Duck, PJ, Lou and others to be respectful or hit the road.

 

[Charlie Edwards]

With this being said you go and play pool with your spin and you'll be left behind to CTE/Pro One and center cueball!

Thanks for starting this thread. This forum needs more high level players, like yourself. I understand from your post that you now use much more center cueball than before.

One question, please estimate what percentage of shots you use side spin.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Its this kinda of statement that is the heart of the problem. This implies that if you don't do as recommended in the statement, you will not improve. And of course, there is no proof to back up your statement.

Are you saying that you never use any kind of spin ever? This includes draw and follow.

You really didn't write anything about what center ball has done for you, but rather that you learn how to teach, which has nothing to do with center ball.

For me, center ball is used in two ways. One is type of hit on the ball, IE, the cue tip hits in the center of the ball on the equator of the ball.

The other is understanding the angle of attack of the cue as it related to the actual center of the ball. The center of the ball being the center of the sphere.

To me, center ball has nothing to do with any aiming system but the stroke.

Center ball can be used with any system, why then when coupled with your wares, is any better than when center ball is coupled with ghost ball?

Or are you really saying that your wares doesn't work with anything other then center ball? If so, that's a big limitation right there.

Duck---

If you choose a contact patch that's right in line with center pocket--- please explain how you can veer off the vertical axis and still use the contact patch?

If your answer involves adjusting the location of the contact patch, please explain exactly how to do that. Please also explain how that changes based on shaft, equipment, etc.

If you aim somewhere else and swerve into the contact patch, how do you calculate that?

Your contact patch has the exact same limitation you're citing with Blade's Pro1. It's not even a limitation, as ALL of these systems/methods work with english. English, however, just isn't part of the baseline calculation. So, you "figure" english from a baseline center ball shot solution.

Eric has something to say to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfqKxtVEMlI

 

[Prodigy1]

Just got an email from Stan. Great guy, and great customer service. Sounds like he really poured his heart and knowledge for the game into this. Anyone that's trying to get better should most definitely give this a try.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Just because someone can make a shot doesn't mean they actually know "how" they made it on a technical or scientific level.

That's my whole point. Knowing the physics behind pool inside and out does not equate to being a great player.

If someone tells me to try something, I will. If it works, knowing how it works will not make me play any better.

 

[The Saw]

Pj,

I am sick and tired of you saying what I do is illogical or whatever without direct evidence. You have never even offered 1 single shot that does not work or presented one specific gap for CTE PRO ONE. I have offered you opportunities to debate me on this at a table giving you 2/1 on the money and you decline. But yet you continue to attack what I do.

AZ members that think I am offering snake oil or illogical claims are invited to my teaching facility this spring to see what I do first- hand and report back to this forum.

I am tired of your crap, PJ and I do not care much about posting concerning CTE because of you.

You are DEAD wrong about CTE.

Stan Shuffett

Tap, tap, tap......