What do you think holds most players back ?

Matt90 said:
Time ? Discipline ? Work /Career ? Family ? or do they get to a comfort level and get ok with staying there ? Just curious what has held others back from getting to where they want to be as a player.I know with me I had to make my career a priority and am building up a new business,I just don't have the time I would like to play and give my all to my work .It's a choice I made and I am ok with it .
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I don't think most players would have a chance at the pro level if they devoted 100% of their time to the game for 20 years. Even if they had the nerves of steel necessary to play near perfect competitive pool, their talent would plateau at a level somewhat lower than professional.

For the select few who do have the talent and the nerves, there is no incentive to work hard enough at it to play pro pool. For those who attempt it, the talent is like a curse - their lives might just fly by without the financial equivalent of a profession.
 
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Definitely doubt in their shot, worry that if they miss the opponent will run it, or they will mess up terribly. That's how I got my pool name "Punisher" every time I got a ball in hand, I'd run it. So, they called it a punishment of mistake.
 
For certain, with enough dedication and practice, most players could improve quite a lot. Would that be enough to make it as a pro? Absolutely not.

I look at it this way. Are you among worlds top 1000 performers at your daily job? Chances are you are certainly not, and maybe the number is much greater, some additional zeroes spring to mind if we're being honest. But you still get paid.

Most daily jobs don't require of you to be better at it than virtually all of the worlds population. Professional sports do in fact require just that and then some more. Pool is no exception. That's why it is very very unlikely for anyone to actually become a pro, even for very gifted individuals who practice a lot. There's extremely small amount of room at the top of the pyramid.
 
predator said:
Most daily jobs don't require of you to be better at it than virtually all of the worlds population. Professional sports do in fact require just that and then some more. Pool is no exception. That's why it is very very unlikely for anyone to actually become a pro, even for very gifted individuals who practice a lot. There's extremely small amount of room at the top of the pyramid.
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This is true. It is why we have the term "shortstop" speed.

"Many are called, but few are chosen".

Maniac (hasn't been called nor chosen :sorry:)
 
predator said:
For certain, with enough dedication and practice, most players could improve quite a lot. Would that be enough to make it as a pro? Absolutely not.

I look at it this way. Are you among worlds top 1000 performers at your daily job? Chances are you are certainly not, and maybe the number is much greater, some additional zeroes spring to mind if we're being honest. But you still get paid.

Most daily jobs don't require of you to be better at it than virtually all of the worlds population. Professional sports do in fact require just that and then some more. Pool is no exception. That's why it is very very unlikely for anyone to actually become a pro, even for very gifted individuals who practice a lot. There's extremely small amount of room at the top of the pyramid.
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Predator, not sure why you are saying this, and new pro players are increasing everyday. Did you watch the last Japan 10 ball tourney, at least 20 or 30 players i never heard of before, and managed to capture or beat existing pros.
With the right high advance knowledge of pool, any A level will reach pro level with high level of practice. Look at Branden Shuff, he is beating all pro players now, he was not a pro three or four years ago, he was strong player.
If you said the reason is players that want to be pro players but work full time cannot reach pro level i can swallow that.
 
naji said:
Predator, not sure why you are saying this, and new pro players are increasing everyday. Did you watch the last Japan 10 ball tourney, at least 20 or 30 players i never heard of before, and managed to capture or beat existing pros.
With the right high advance knowledge of pool, any A level will reach pro level with high level of practice. Look at Branden Shuff, he is beating all pro players now, he was not a pro three or four years ago, he was strong player.
If you said the reason is players that want to be pro players but work full time cannot reach pro level i can swallow that.
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naji, I said that reaching a pro level of play, good enough to make a living, is very unlikely for most players, but not entirely impossible. There are always exceptions. As for Japan 10ball...just because you don't know a name doesn't mean a guy necessarily plays amateur level pool. I admit that I know only about 10 names or so from let's say Taiwan and China...but they must have hundreds of players who play super high level.

And I really have no idea what "A" player or "strong" player means. That kind of labeling is highly subjective. Are they class or two below top professionals, or local pool room heroes?
 
Some people's pit of ego and insecurity is not bottomless and eventually becomes full.
 
predator said:
naji, I said that reaching a pro level of play, good enough to make a living, is very unlikely for most players, but not entirely impossible. There are always exceptions. As for Japan 10ball...just because you don't know a name doesn't mean a guy necessarily plays amateur level pool. I admit that I know only about 10 names or so from let's say Taiwan and China...but they must have hundreds of players who play super high level.

And I really have no idea what "A" player or "strong" player means. That kind of labeling is highly subjective. Are they class or two below top professionals, or local pool room heroes?
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What you saying in this post make sense and i agree, but what you said in earlier post i quote: "That's why it is very very unlikely for anyone to actually become a pro, even for very gifted individuals who practice a lot. There's extremely small amount of room at the top of the pyramid"
what did you mean by above statement in red?

What i know is A++++ is pro, A+++, A++, A+, and A all these can pot 99.99% of balls, i think the higher the rank the better position play , kicking, banking with pro is master in all. Obviously luck is a factor in pool, so an A could beat a pro in a short race.
 
naji said:
What you saying in this post make sense and i agree, but what you said in earlier post i quote: "That's why it is very very unlikely for anyone to actually become a pro, even for very gifted individuals who practice a lot. There's extremely small amount of room at the top of the pyramid"
what did you mean by above statement in red?
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It is simple really. There are literally millions of players playing this game around the world seriously, perhaps thousands very gifted who practice so much you have to scrape them off the table. But you don't have thousands recognizable pro names nor you don't have thousands good enough for Mosconi Cup...etc...the list goes on.

It's like that in any sport. Only very few selected individuals can be at the very top. You have many many more mediocre players that great ones. And then you have hundreds of times more bad players than mediocre ones. See the pyramid shape now?
Of course, even if you already play excellent pool, jumping levels is still possible even if much more difficult, and one should never ever give up trying. Because you never know, you just might be one of those freaks who excel against all odds...besides, improving your game is fun at any level.

I know pool is somewhat special because a high level amateur player can on his best day beat Archer in a tournament. But so what? That is possible only because one hour or even two hours of 9/10ball match isn't long and there's plenty of luck involved.
 
take EVERYTHING you know about pool and try to condense it down to 2 or 3 thoughs

ChrisBanks said:
As a river diverts in many directions, the strength of the current in each direction diminishes.

And so it is with the river of your mind. Diverge it in many areas, and none of them will be as strong.
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That's a very fitting quote.

From my experience most players that "never get any better" suffer from trying to make the game more complicated by dividing the "River of the Game" in many directions.

One thing I recommend is to take EVERYTHING you know about pool and try to condense it down to 2 or 3 thoughts that "sum it all up," so you can free yourself up mentally to reach a higher level. If you have trouble doing this then seek out ways to simplify your pre shot routine and approach to the Game in general.

Not being able to improve and develop as a player is usually a result of "mental bondage," brought on be believing the game is tougher than it acually is. The Game at the championship level is much more simple than at the amateur level. There's far LESS negative choices.

The key that unlocks those chains are usually in doing "something" that you know will help, but your mind resists doing. The action of taking control of your game, life and ego is a deciding factor in success or lack of.

CJ Wiley www.cjwileybilliards.com
 
predator said:
It is simple really. There are literally millions of players playing this game around the world seriously, perhaps thousands very gifted who practice so much you have to scrape them off the table. But you don't have thousands recognizable pro names nor you don't have thousands good enough for Mosconi Cup...etc...the list goes on.

It's like that in any sport. Only very few selected individuals can be at the very top. You have many many more mediocre players that great ones. And then you have hundreds of times more bad players than mediocre ones. See the pyramid shape now?
Of course, even if you already play excellent pool, jumping levels is still possible even if much more difficult, and one should never ever give up trying. Because you never know, you just might be one of those freaks who excel against all odds...besides, improving your game is fun at any level.

I know pool is somewhat special because a high level amateur player can on his best day beat Archer in a tournament. But so what? That is possible only because one hour or even two hours of 9/10ball match isn't long and there's plenty of luck involved.
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Pool unlike other sports, it has lots of advance knowledge steps intertwined with each other that makes it hard to pin point exactly what cause you to miss a shot, i call them secrets of the game, Unless you have time at your own leisure at home to discover it all, you will never be consistent.
But please let's agree not to use the word gifted again, because i associate gifted with gifts from God such as beautiful voice gift, beauty; very tall body say for basketball, and maybe high IQ, of which you need none in pool game to be a pro, all you need is time, lots of it, of which i agree not many people have and that is the only reason why they will not be at pro level, provided they have good health in general.
 
ChrisBanks said:
As a river diverts in many directions, the strength of the current in each direction diminishes.

And so it is with the river of your mind. Diverge it in many areas, and none of them will be as strong.
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This is very true ... and its even worse when you get older and the river starts to dry up!
 
CJ Wiley said:
That's a very fitting quote.

From my experience most players that "never get any better" suffer from trying to make the game more complicated by dividing the "River of the Game" in many directions.

One thing I recommend is to take EVERYTHING you know about pool and try to condense it down to 2 or 3 thoughts that "sum it all up," so you can free yourself up mentally to reach a higher level. If you have trouble doing this then seek out ways to simplify your pre shot routine and approach to the Game in general.

Not being able to improve and develop as a player is usually a result of "mental bondage," brought on be believing the game is tougher than it acually is. The Game at the championship level is much more simple than at the amateur level. There's far LESS negative choices.

The key that unlocks those chains are usually in doing "something" that you know will help, but your mind resists doing. The action of taking control of your game, life and ego is a deciding factor in success or lack of.

CJ Wiley www.cjwileybilliards.com
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Hello Mr. CJ,
I like your post. It says it all.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
CJ Wiley said:
That's a very fitting quote.

From my experience most players that "never get any better" suffer from trying to make the game more complicated by dividing the "River of the Game" in many directions.

One thing I recommend is to take EVERYTHING you know about pool and try to condense it down to 2 or 3 thoughts that "sum it all up," so you can free yourself up mentally to reach a higher level. If you have trouble doing this then seek out ways to simplify your pre shot routine and approach to the Game in general.

Not being able to improve and develop as a player is usually a result of "mental bondage," brought on be believing the game is tougher than it acually is. The Game at the championship level is much more simple than at the amateur level. There's far LESS negative choices.

The key that unlocks those chains are usually in doing "something" that you know will help, but your mind resists doing. The action of taking control of your game, life and ego is a deciding factor in success or lack of.

CJ Wiley www.cjwileybilliards.com
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Hi CJ i think you should distinguish between advanced level players, and say B, C, or D players. Those starting players will have to spend time to work on the basics and many steps of pool to get to the 2 or 3 thoughts process.
 
naji said:
Hi CJ i think you should distinguish between advanced level players, and say B, C, or D players. Those starting players will have to spend time to work on the basics and many steps of pool to get to the 2 or 3 thoughts process.
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Mr. Naji,

I'm curious. Do you or did you ever play others sports & if so which one(s)?

Best Regards,
 
ENGLISH! said:
Mr. Naji,

I'm curious. Do you or did you ever play others sports & if so which one(s)?

Best Regards,
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I am close to a pro level in Foosball (baby foot), also i played good table tennis but never continued with it. May i ask why are you asking?
 
naji said:
Hi CJ i think you should distinguish between advanced level players, and say B, C, or D players. Those starting players will have to spend time to work on the basics and many steps of pool to get to the 2 or 3 thoughts process.
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I think you are missing the most important part of Mr. Wiley's post.

Simplicity is the key.

There is genius in simplicity!

Ken
 
I think there are two main things that hold players back.

First, accepting the idea that there is a ceiling to how well you can play. I accepted this idea early on and while it wasn't something I was always conscious of, it was a thought that was always somewhere in the back of my mind. So when I would run into shots that would give me trouble on the practice table I wouldn't attack them with the same determination that I do now. Instead, I would just sort of think to myself, well I guess I'm just not capable of making that shot consistently. I now believe with all my heart that had I picked up this game at an earlier age I could have been as good as anybody.

Secondly, figuring out the right things to be practicing on is so very important. For me personally, I've found that since I only have a limited amount of time to practice I focus all most all of my time working on my cueing and the one thing that I try to avoid as much as possible is wasting my time shooting easy shots. One thing that I constantly find myself shaking my head at is people that do drills that do not challenge their shot making ability AT ALL.

For instance, the wagon wheel drill was mentioned in either this thread or another current thread here on AZ. Pocketing the ball in this drill is so easy; to me it's a complete waste of time. I know lots of people disagree with me on this, but I always make sure that I am testing my potting ability on all drills. One interesting thing that I like to do is play the 9 ball ghost, but before each shot I'll move the cue ball further away from the object ball (keeping the same angle).

Switching my focus from cue ball control over to ball pocketing and just solid cueing over the course of the past couple of years has improved my game (or at least my ability) so much that I almost can't believe it. Now you may not agree with my findings on drills, and shot making, and cue ball control and all that, but you will probably agree that unlocking the secret to proper practice is a crucial part of getting better at this game. We all have to figure this out for ourselves and really it's probably the most rewarding part of the game. Well, at least for me it has been.
 
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