Who's cues hit like (*&%?

i've used a richard black before and wasnt very impressed. it was bad or anything but i didnt see any reason to use the black over any other cue that i could get; production, custom or house cue lol.

had a longoni that i wasnt too pleased with. it could be because i prefer really stiff cues and the longoni wasnt made to be stiff like that so i didnt really like it.

also, i shot with an expensive gina and while it was decent, i dont think there's anything related to playability that warrants the high price tag on it.
 
1pRoscoe said:
Exactly my point! Hit is subjective, however those that know what a cue should hit like pretty much can peg the same errors...
Click to expand...

you hit a point i've been preaching for it seems like forever that hit is subjective....BUT imo....only to those who don't know what a good hitting cue is supposed to "feel" like. there are great hitting cues from many makers including every type, style, length, weight ect, ect..... the main issue is too many who critique them really don't know what to "look" for.


skins ------------thinks there is such a thing as the perfect hitting cue
 
I think that a lot of hype about a cue maker comes from players that are first time buyers of a custom cue. They buy a custom made cue from a fairly new maker for under $500. They feel that since they have spent a lot of money on a cue it has to be great. Remember that they have just moved up from shooting with a house cue. Naturally to them that cue is and will remain the best playing cue because they are compairing it to a POS. The next point is they want to hype it up to save their "Investment".
 
1pRoscoe said:
You do recall I got my EM from you, right? :p
Click to expand...

Wellllll, now that you mention it.....

But look up the listing - I never made reference to the hit. Only to the construction and execution, which is impressive.

And then there's the whole HIT IS SUBJECTIVE thing. Whomever owns it now may LOVE it!

Enough back peddling?

-von
 
Measuring the hit

I owned a McWorter that "pinged" in a way that was annoying but still did a great job moving the ball. Sold it for a Black that was really sweet with an ivory flat faced joint.

Q: To your knowledge, has anyone ever instrumented cues with strain guages and quantitatively measured the characteristics of a "good hitting" cue? We could test a sampling of the best according to conventional wisdom and maybe learn something about common characteristics. Should be straight forward and only require a rewrap at the end of testing. Could also look at measured effects of different tips while we're at it.

Sorry, it's the engineer in me.

Steve
 
Bamacues said:
Most times, I think that the bad hit of a quality cuemaker's cue is due to what happened to it AFTER it left the cuemaker's shop.

Case in point, I carried a $4k Scruggs cue to SBE in 2004 to sell for a friend. It was a gorgeous cue, tons of ivory, solid ivory joint, and a hit that had a real bad vibration and was almost impossible to move the cue ball with any success/predictability. I found this out when I decided that I would play a match with it...it was a bad mistake.

I did not sell the cue, and when I gave it back to my friend, I told him what I had noticed about the cue. He snickered and said he knew about it. Apparently, he had damaged the joint at some point and had it repaired by someone other than Scruggs who did not do such a good job. While it still LOOKED fine, it wasn't.
Joe
Click to expand...

ive had this same prob with ivory jointed cues.
i dont wana sound like "that guy" but i can pretty much play with anything.

except ivory joint

feels dead to me. ive only had one ivory jointed cue a -R- that u could play with and it had a predator shaft which totally defeated that purpose
 
i'm a decent player. i have been buying/trading/selling cues for years and years now. i have been able to play with EVERY maker on this earth. took a long time, but the ride has been a blast. i've tried every tip, breakcue, shaft, ferrule, yadayada. here is what i believe i have come up with.

hit is not that subjective.


quick story.......

this year i went to the DCC. i sold 4 gus szamboti's to a friend and delivered them to him there. he also brought 4 of his barry szamboti's with him for me to check out. we took them all one of the nights down to the tables to fool around with them. we both shoot with 314's, so we just kept swapping our one playing shaft with all the different szamboti's. he pulls the last barry out and tells me, for whatever reason, he can't make a ball with this cue. (this guy is a great open player by the way). now all the barry's and gus' that we tried hit about the same. i try the cue he has been having a problem with. guess what, this cue acts TOTALLY diferent. (all the cues had a piloted steel joint). i couldn't control the english as well, and there was more deflection for some reason. the cue had no rattles, nothing was loose. using the barry shaft, it did the same things. tapers seemed the same between the 8 cues. weird. (iv'e seen this type of thing before in other top makers also.) we had a few other people try it, and they all said the same thing.


(i have a million other stories like this, but i picked this on as my example)



i feel from my experience, as a player, and as a cue seller, that when you have an awesome, special, hitting cue, the better players can tell.
and when you have a cue that hits funny for whatever reason, the better players can tell also.
i could not have said these things 5 years ago, because i'm a better player now, and have tried tons and tons of more cues.
i believe when a cue hits good, it hits good.
people like different tapers, softer/harder hits, steel/flatfaced-big pin, i understand that.
but when you try a cue thats a little too stiff for your liking, but hits solid, you can't say thats a bad hitting cue. it's just not for you.
when i try to sell cues, i don't use the lines like "it hits a ton". i try to describe the hit. softer/harder, stiff/whippy, whatever, and let the consumer decide.

(here's where i get in trouble)

i think the lower handicapped players don't really know the difference between these cues.
not because they are dumb, or beginners, but that they have not had the experience.


would love to know what you guys think.


chris G<--------gonna make some people mad;)
 
1pRoscoe said:
So we always hear the hype about "hit like a mack truck", "hit a ton", and "hit is INCREDIBLE!", but I'm curious..... Who makes a cue that just hits like crap? Why do you not like them?

Not looking for opinions on cuemakers you don't care for, but cues that just consistently don't seem to be right....

Like others have said, I've yet to see an add in the for sale section that said, "it doesn't really hit all that great, but I'm selling it anyways...."

My vote - Ernie Martinez. I bought one due to the hype and was sorely dissappointed... Didn't like the taper, the joint, the balance - nothing.
Click to expand...


I hit some balls with a Brick cue made from Dymondwood. Although it hit like a Brick as advertised, I would have preferred it hit like a pool cue.

Chris
 
manwon said:
The first cue I built was certainly a turd, with respect to the cues hit, over all design, and it's finish, it fact the cue was such a turd that it even farted!!!!!!:eek: Now while my cues may still be turds to some people, I can certainly say they no longer fart!!!!!!!!!!:D and some people even like them, now ain't that some shit!!!!!!!:p

Have a good night!!!!
Click to expand...


Could it be that a cue that hits like (*&%? is largely due to the (*&%? that is hitting with the cue??

Craig, your current cues are no longer turds. ;)
 
The absolutely worst hitting cue I ever had was an Auerback cue I bought on E-Bay. I really thought it was a great looking cue and wanted to use it as a player, but the cue had a dud hit. I can only describe it as imagine if you soaked your shaft in a bucket of water for two months until it was saturated, then played with it.

I tried to tweak it. I had the tip changed several times. Had the ferrule changed. Had the taper changed. Had the weight bolt changed, then I realized, there was just something wrong with it.

I traded the cue even for another worth less money, and never heard from the other guy again.

Chris
 
was it the shaft that sucked or was it a combination of the shaft and the butt. did u try that cue with another shaft to see if it makes it any better?
 
Whatever????

bogey54311 said:
i'm a decent player. i have been buying/trading/selling cues for years and years now. i have been able to play with EVERY maker on this earth. took a long time, but the ride has been a blast. i've tried every tip, breakcue, shaft, ferrule, yadayada. here is what i believe i have come up with.

hit is not that subjective.


quick story.......

this year i went to the DCC. i sold 4 gus szamboti's to a friend and delivered them to him there. he also brought 4 of his barry szamboti's with him for me to check out. we took them all one of the nights down to the tables to fool around with them. we both shoot with 314's, so we just kept swapping our one playing shaft with all the different szamboti's. he pulls the last barry out and tells me, for whatever reason, he can't make a ball with this cue. (this guy is a great open player by the way). now all the barry's and gus' that we tried hit about the same. i try the cue he has been having a problem with. guess what, this cue acts TOTALLY diferent. (all the cues had a piloted steel joint). i couldn't control the english as well, and there was more deflection for some reason. the cue had no rattles, nothing was loose. using the barry shaft, it did the same things. tapers seemed the same between the 8 cues. weird. (iv'e seen this type of thing before in other top makers also.) we had a few other people try it, and they all said the same thing.


(i have a million other stories like this, but i picked this on as my example)



i feel from my experience, as a player, and as a cue seller, that when you have an awesome, special, hitting cue, the better players can tell.
and when you have a cue that hits funny for whatever reason, the better players can tell also.
i could not have said these things 5 years ago, because i'm a better player now, and have tried tons and tons of more cues.
i believe when a cue hits good, it hits good.
people like different tapers, softer/harder hits, steel/flatfaced-big pin, i understand that.
but when you try a cue thats a little too stiff for your liking, but hits solid, you can't say thats a bad hitting cue. it's just not for you.
when i try to sell cues, i don't use the lines like "it hits a ton". i try to describe the hit. softer/harder, stiff/whippy, whatever, and let the consumer decide.

(here's where i get in trouble)

i think the lower handicapped players don't really know the difference between these cues.
not because they are dumb, or beginners, but that they have not had the experience.


would love to know what you guys think.


chris G<--------gonna make some people mad;)
Click to expand...

Good story Chris....but what kind of moron has 8 Szamboti's and still uses a 314 shaft...the guy must not be "right" if you ask me:D :D

I think all that cue really needs is a limb saver....then I bet it would "hit like a jam up ton of freight trains"

You were talking about the hoppe correct? Man that was fun...:p
 
Philippines

I have a cue made by a guy in the Philippines and it plays jam up.The crazy thing is it has a steel joint and Ive hated those for years.I think unless the shaft is just crap the most important thing is the balance and for me I like it forward balanced.JMHO
 
Cr@p cues usually don't have a long following

From what I have noticed that regardless of what it is that makes the cue a cr@p cue, historical sales of that cue eventually show it was not an overly desirable cue.

I start out with Prather. I had one. I would swap between it and my Leonard Bludworth and notice I couldn't shoot for beans with the Prather even though it looked great. Seen many Prather cues lately?

Leonard Vs Donald Round 3. I had 2 Leonards and one fancy Donald. I understand why Leonard didn't want his son making cues using the Blud dot logo. Leanord -excellent, My Donald - really sucked in finish quality and playability. Where is Donald today???? Still at SE? Who knows.

And what about all those supposedly "Custom" cues with their wierd proprietary joints that end up in retail billiards stores across the country. JCC just waiting for poor novices to buy one thinking it is custom to find out that no one but them has the dies for that stupid joint. I bought 2 of them one for my son and one for me. They both died agonizing deaths in the hot trunk of my son's car afte a year or so. Shows how much we cherished them. Schuler's were not truly custom either, but they played decent and never got the trunk treatment.

And then there are those that couldn't draw a straight line without a CNC. Some like Colorado Cues found that fancy CNC work and exhorbitant pricing will break the bank in a hurry. When I showed Dan Breggan my level 7 Michael Morgan that played lights out, he said it would cost me at least $2500 if he were to make one like mine. First off, the Michael Morgan wasn't a CNC job. Secondly, I hate CNC laden cues made by a computer instead of a craftsman. Wonder what Dan is doing today.

Last but not least and I am sure I will get a whole lot of flack. Why is it that one well known cuemaker makes almost all of his cues as ebony and ivory and some with very fancy silver wire work for about $4500, yet I never see them sell on eBay. They are such slow movers. All my life I wanted a "McD" and finally got one a few years back that had made the circles in Denver. It looked great but , after owning 2 Motteys, 3 Cogs, and a slew of other great playing cues, I realized why this McD had been the city HO. It played like cr@p. Would I now consider shelling out $4K for a beautiful looking McD after my experince with my first and only McD? Not likely. Bottom line, if they make one bad cue, I tend to deduct that most of their cues will be similarly bad, thereby they lost one future customer. Sorry, Bill.
 
my two worst cues were a
very old tim scruggs from 1978
a 1992 barry szamboti 59''

i couldnt pocket a ball with either of these 2 cues

however the best playing cue i ever owned was also a scruggs... go figure
 
dave sutton said:
my two worst cues were a
very old tim scruggs from 1978
a 1992 barry szamboti 59''

i couldnt pocket a ball with either of these 2 cues

however the best playing cue i ever owned was also a scruggs... go figure
Click to expand...

my exact experience.. a mcdaniel i tried a year ago really sucked, almost as bad as my first philippine cue-audrick(broomstick), but my playing cue now is a mcdaniel, has one of the best hits i feel..
 
bogey54311 said:
i'm a decent player. i have been buying/trading/selling cues for years and years now. i have been able to play with EVERY maker on this earth. took a long time, but the ride has been a blast. i've tried every tip, breakcue, shaft, ferrule, yadayada. here is what i believe i have come up with.

hit is not that subjective.


quick story.......

this year i went to the DCC. i sold 4 gus szamboti's to a friend and delivered them to him there. he also brought 4 of his barry szamboti's with him for me to check out. we took them all one of the nights down to the tables to fool around with them. we both shoot with 314's, so we just kept swapping our one playing shaft with all the different szamboti's. he pulls the last barry out and tells me, for whatever reason, he can't make a ball with this cue. (this guy is a great open player by the way). now all the barry's and gus' that we tried hit about the same. i try the cue he has been having a problem with. guess what, this cue acts TOTALLY diferent. (all the cues had a piloted steel joint). i couldn't control the english as well, and there was more deflection for some reason. the cue had no rattles, nothing was loose. using the barry shaft, it did the same things. tapers seemed the same between the 8 cues. weird. (iv'e seen this type of thing before in other top makers also.) we had a few other people try it, and they all said the same thing.


(i have a million other stories like this, but i picked this on as my example)



i feel from my experience, as a player, and as a cue seller, that when you have an awesome, special, hitting cue, the better players can tell.
and when you have a cue that hits funny for whatever reason, the better players can tell also.
i could not have said these things 5 years ago, because i'm a better player now, and have tried tons and tons of more cues.
i believe when a cue hits good, it hits good.
people like different tapers, softer/harder hits, steel/flatfaced-big pin, i understand that.
but when you try a cue thats a little too stiff for your liking, but hits solid, you can't say thats a bad hitting cue. it's just not for you.
when i try to sell cues, i don't use the lines like "it hits a ton". i try to describe the hit. softer/harder, stiff/whippy, whatever, and let the consumer decide.

(here's where i get in trouble)

i think the lower handicapped players don't really know the difference between these cues.
not because they are dumb, or beginners, but that they have not had the experience.


would love to know what you guys think.


chris G<--------gonna make some people mad;)
Click to expand...

I am a high c player maybe at best low b player so i consider myself to be a "lower" player....... Now i beleive the same to be true also Chris, although being a lower player i have played and owned most cues available today also ..........
No troubles here sir........;)
 
This IS a touchy subject, but after working in a few pool rooms I got to hit with every cue that came through the door........or they didn't get a table! :D

I never owned a clunker Black Boar...had 6 of them.

Owned 1 Scruggs 20 years ago...uh, didn't like it at all. This was a cue I hand picked at his shop while the build was happening. Then I took it home, tightened the joint pin and weight bold :rolleyes: ...and added brass crush washers over the joint pin to mate the shaft and bottom of the joint well.....walla, a great hitting cue IMO that is sitting in my brother in laws closet in Florida. I needed the money, and he won't sell it back to me!!

I've had 3 wood/wood joint cues now and DO NOT like that kind of hit.

Owned 4 Meucci's...got all of them to play well with a little work.

I enjoy taking a clunker home to my shop and try to revive it. MANY time the joint pin or weight bolt are loose. I found this on a few brand new cues :confused: ...maybe the moisture level changed enough? anyway, between shaft tapering, tips, and tightening things up most cues were playable....a few were not.

Gerry
 
Omg!

our_auctionguy said:
From what I have noticed that regardless of what it is that makes the cue a cr@p cue, historical sales of that cue eventually show it was not an overly desirable cue.

I start out with Prather. I had one. I would swap between it and my Leonard Bludworth and notice I couldn't shoot for beans with the Prather even though it looked great. Seen many Prather cues lately?

Leonard Vs Donald Round 3. I had 2 Leonards and one fancy Donald. I understand why Leonard didn't want his son making cues using the Blud dot logo. Leanord -excellent, My Donald - really sucked in finish quality and playability. Where is Donald today???? Still at SE? Who knows.

And what about all those supposedly "Custom" cues with their wierd proprietary joints that end up in retail billiards stores across the country. JCC just waiting for poor novices to buy one thinking it is custom to find out that no one but them has the dies for that stupid joint. I bought 2 of them one for my son and one for me. They both died agonizing deaths in the hot trunk of my son's car afte a year or so. Shows how much we cherished them. Schuler's were not truly custom either, but they played decent and never got the trunk treatment.

And then there are those that couldn't draw a straight line without a CNC. Some like Colorado Cues found that fancy CNC work and exhorbitant pricing will break the bank in a hurry. When I showed Dan Breggan my level 7 Michael Morgan that played lights out, he said it would cost me at least $2500 if he were to make one like mine. First off, the Michael Morgan wasn't a CNC job. Secondly, I hate CNC laden cues made by a computer instead of a craftsman. Wonder what Dan is doing today.

Last but not least and I am sure I will get a whole lot of flack. Why is it that one well known cuemaker makes almost all of his cues as ebony and ivory and some with very fancy silver wire work for about $4500, yet I never see them sell on eBay. They are such slow movers. All my life I wanted a "McD" and finally got one a few years back that had made the circles in Denver. It looked great but , after owning 2 Motteys, 3 Cogs, and a slew of other great playing cues, I realized why this McD had been the city HO. It played like cr@p. Would I now consider shelling out $4K for a beautiful looking McD after my experince with my first and only McD? Not likely. Bottom line, if they make one bad cue, I tend to deduct that most of their cues will be similarly bad, thereby they lost one future customer. Sorry, Bill.
Click to expand...

You paid 4500 bucks for a McDermott?:D
 
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