Why order a Custom cue over a production cue...

The King

The King

Here's Jimbo....
Silver Member
You see it all the time here on the forums people posting saying they have gotten ripped off by cue makers... Or their cues have taken years and years to build and they have not seen the cue yet... Eason Cues and Eddie Wheat Cues come to mind as rip off artists... I have heard stories of well known cue makers ripping people off also ... No big names to avoid controversy this thread is not about people being ripped off but about production over custom....

Many Custon Cues seem to be over priced , Sometimes you send in your deposit or pay up front and it just takes forever to get the cue... Family member died or the cue maker just keeps putting you off because you were foolish enough to pay a large sum up front and they see no need to get your cue done, they got most of your money... Yeah they say they don't need a deposit on here till you call and then in private it is a different story.... Or perhaps the woods you picked turn out to look far better then the builder thought and he thinks he can sell this outstanding looking wood for a much higher price then he quoted you ... So he sells your cue to someone else for a bigger profit... I mean this forum is constantly full of posts similar to this concerning cue builders... Not to mention the cue builders who think they are God and come at you with the attitude of I'm the greatest why are you even talking to me ...lol... Hang up I'll call you when your cue is done I don't really care what you want in a cue ... I'm building this cue just be happy with what you get and praise me for taking the time to build it for you... Cue builders just seem to take forever I have waited for years to get a cue ....You don't even get to try the cues out they are shipped to you and you hope you get a custom cue that has a good hit to it with good quality products in it...

Of course the positives are you get to pick the wood ... The wieght , maybe have a say in the design of the cue ... Sometimes you meet some great people in these cue builders and become friends. It can be a very good experience it can also be a nightmare from hell... I have really asked myself of late is it worth the risk... As this post shows...

On the other hand the Production cue ... Joss and Schon put out some very nice looking cues .. I have played with some and they hit very good as well...
You can walk into a store and they ussually have a very goood selection so you can find something you like ... You can try the cue out see how it hits and how it feels. Most of the time a Joss or Schon is priced cheaper then a good quality Custom from a well known cue maker. Of course they don't hold their value as well as a custom at least not on this forum... I have stopped alot of late and wondered about all of these things... And thought I would put it down in this forum to see what others think...

I have a friend who plays very good pool... So good that Archer came down here to play him years ago... He always says it is not the arrow but the person who is holding the arrow... He will play off the wall and beat you to death on a table ... He often tells me that nice pool cues are nice to look at and give you a consistant tool to use... But other then that it is all mental that is if you can shoot, you can shoot with a broom stick as well as with a million dollar cue... Just some thoughts running through my head what is your opinion of Custom -vs- Production....
 
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Why do golfers buy highend equipment, even tho' they may never come close to pro status? It's about working hard, and treating yourself once in a while to something nice...in this case, it's pool cues.

Some people want something very specific in their cues, and others just want something that pleases them aesthetically. The former requires a maker to craft for you, the latter can come from a maker or purchased as a production cue.

I have played with many different cues with different joint configurations and shaft tapers. I have kinda figured out what I like in a player. I have been fortunate enough to work with some makers who were willing to let me request certain specs on a cue, because I thought they would make for a fine player. And as it turns out, they did make fine players, for me. That's truly a custom cue...and custom cue maker.

Would I do it again?...absolutely! But my list of makers I will work with is quite small. A trust has been established, and I know that they will not let me down. I have not had to provide deposits, and the cues have been completed in a reasonable time. Lines of communication stayed open, and I remained involved in the process...but not overly so as to annoy.

I have no issue with production cues...but they are generally 'what you see is what you get'. I have run into one that play very very well, even though it was not my typical joint preference. I have had people line up to buy that old beat-up cue because it's a name the recognize. I personally think that quite often a production cue is easier to sell overall on the secondary, simply because more people outside of AZB are familiar with names like McDermott, Viking, Predator, Schon.

Yes, it is the Indian, and not the Arrow...but if the Arrow instills confidence, the Indian is likely going to shoot better. The game is 98% mental, afterall.

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
Why do golfers buy highend equipment, even tho' they may never come close to pro status? It's about working hard, and treating yourself once in a while to something nice...in this case, it's pool cues.

Some people want something very specific in their cues, and others just want something that pleases them aesthetically. The former requires a maker to craft for you, the latter can come from a maker or purchased as a production cue.

I have played with many different cues with different joint configurations and shaft tapers. I have kinda figured out what I like in a player. I have been fortunate enough to work with some makers who were willing to let me request certain specs on a cue, because I thought they would make for a fine player. And as it turns out, they did make fine players, for me. That's truly a custom cue...and custom cue maker.

Would I do it again?...absolutely! But my list of makers I will work with is quite small. A trust has been established, and I know that they will not let me down. I have not had to provide deposits, and the cues have been completed in a reasonable time. Lines of communication stayed open, and I remained involved in the process...but not overly so as to annoy.

I have no issue with production cues...but they are generally 'what you see is what you get'. I have run into one that play very very well, even though it was not my typical joint preference. I have had people line up to buy that old beat-up cue because it's a name the recognize. I personally think that quite often a production cue is easier to sell overall on the secondary, simply because more people outside of AZB are familiar with names like McDermott, Viking, Predator, Schon.Yes, it is the Indian, and not the Arrow...but if the Arrow instills confidence, the Indian is likely going to shoot better. The game is 98% mental, afterall.

Lisa
Click to expand...

I play on an in house pool leauge with the same 25 people every week. It is Meucci city(some vikings)lots of old nice ones. They ask me what my cue is and I say Pechauer and I get a blank look. So I explain who makes the cue and so forth. So I think in this crowd that a Meucci or Viking would be easier to sell then a well known to us custom cue.
Of the 5 people on my team we have 1 Pechauer-3 Meuccis-1 Lucasi SP
 
People have different reasons for buying custom cues. If the reason is because it will be custom for the customer - then I suggest the buyer be sure they know what they want in advance.

Furthermore, and a sort of word of warning - most cuemakers, the majority in fact, for calling themselves "custom" don't really do anything custom at all. They tend to be quite resistant to changes and some are even belligerent. Many try and simply convince you to accept their features, rather than truly build to your specifications and preferences. This is for a variety of reasons. Many simply think their way is the best way. Others are offended by the idea of doing what they perceive is wrong. Some just don't really want to do anything custom as that's more work since their set up is set to produce cues of their own spec and uniform design (tapers for example). Which in essence, makes them sort of a production cue maker of a small scale. Another reason might be that the cuemaker has a following, a certain market value and an expectation for a certain hit/feel - and putting out radically different examples of their work into the marketplace compromises their value, reputation and brand. That is because the truly custom is likely to be sold at some point, and it won't be told or known that it was a customer requested cue with heavy customization.

Cuemakers out there that truly listen to the customer and do precisely what the customer wants, without being P.I.T.A's are the small minority of cuemakers. These are the true custom cuemakers.

Typically, most cuemakers are willing to make changes as far as aesthetics and artistic design is concerned. And tend to be more unyielding when it comes to how the cue plays, tapers, balance and feel etcetera. There are a few exceptions. Some won't even bend on looks either. Or the design has to fall within the spectrum of what they are known for. Again, a brand preservation concern. Understandable.

But these interests often are in conflict. Players want a cue that feels right to them.

All that said, try and search out for cuemakers that really do what you want them to do. Beware of some who at first will show themselves to be very willing and accepting of your ideas only to suck you in and then basically just make what they want for you, rather than what you want.

One last thing, a good number of cuemakers are so busy and have such demand for their cues - that they won't have the time or patience to deal with you and your custom needs. For they can sell their "stock" specification "custom" cues for years and years with buyers lined up who do not ask, nor care one iota for customizations and who pay up front and pay top dollar. That's the goal of most cuemakers. To get to a point of recognition where they can build what they want, and sell what they want and always have buyers. They in practicality, just become a super-high end production cue.
 
Cues are subjective to the player IMO

I have played with and own a couple of costum built cues and several production cues. For me some hit better than others. My first Custom was made to my specs by Gary Medlin ( GEM Cues). Great playing cue and great guy to work with. My second a Robert Weir that I bought used from a friend of mine. One of the best feeling cues I ever played with. I also own 3 meucci's 2 of which are nearly 25 years old one about 6 years old . of the three 1 plays great , the other is so so for me and the third not worth a damn. My current Player is a 10 year old Joss A series 07 and its the best player I have for where my game is now. I have a schon sp1404 waiting on me at home ( I work Overseas ) and a KJ Custom that I odered while on this rotation that I cant wait to play with with mabey i will be suprised and retire the Joss. Mabey I wont Like them at all and end up selling them dont know for sure yet. Production or Custom, High End or Low End, Its all about what feels right to you and plays well for your particular game. What I think is a great player may feel horrible to you or vice versa. The worst Skull dragging I ever took was a 2000 dollar lesson in humility playing 9 ball in Houston with a fellow shooting off the wall who sent me and my High end Custom GEM Cue home broke with my tail between my legs .

Good Shooting
 
measureman said:
I play on an in house pool leauge with the same 25 people every week. It is Meucci city(some vikings)lots of old nice ones. They ask me what my cue is and I say Pechauer and I get a blank look. So I explain who makes the cue and so forth. So I think in this crowd that a Meucci or Viking would be easier to sell then a well known to us custom cue.
Of the 5 people on my team we have 1 Pechauer-3 Meuccis-1 Lucasi SP
Click to expand...
what!!! no marlboro cues as my old league had ????? :grin:
my 1st cue> viking
my 2nd cue> a "CUSTOM" pechauer
my 3rd thru 10th? 12th? > GUESS :wink:
 
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....Because you can, that's why. I didn't need a Corvette with killer looks and can go 200mph.......but I wanted one. That is all that matters, not what you need, but what you want.
 
Why order a Custom cue over a production cue...


Play with a Chuck Starkey cue and you won't ask again.
 
Custom cues allow me to get what I want and make a profit since they go up in value.

Why do people buy rolex when they can get the time of day off their cell phone?
Why buy a Picaso when a polaroid looks more like the object

Why go to a nice steak house instead of Mc Donalds

But the answer is so obvious I suspect the purpose of the thread is to upset someone on AZ and that's usually not too hard to do.

In 1973 I bought a new Balabushka and a new Cadillac,the cue cost $125 and its worth about $15,000 today.That Cadillac cost me $7,000 then, and its not worth much.

Custom cue went up,production anything didn't
 
The King said:
You see it all the time here on the forums people posting saying they have gotten ripped off by cue makers... Or their cues have taken years and years to build and they have not seen the cue yet... Eason Cues and Eddie Wheat Cues come to mind as rip off artists... I have heard stories of well known cue makers ripping people off also ... No big names to avoid controversy this thread is not about people being ripped off but about production over custom....

Many Custon Cues seem to be over priced , Sometimes you send in your deposit or pay up front and it just takes forever to get the cue... Family member died or the cue maker just keeps putting you off because you were foolish enough to pay a large sum up front and they see no need to get your cue done, they got most of your money... Yeah they say they don't need a deposit on here till you call and then in private it is a different story.... Or perhaps the woods you picked turn out to look far better then the builder thought and he thinks he can sell this outstanding looking wood for a much higher price then he quoted you ... So he sells your cue to someone else for a bigger profit... I mean this forum is constantly full of posts similar to this concerning cue builders... Not to mention the cue builders who think they are God and come at you with the attitude of I'm the greatest why are you even talking to me ...lol... Hang up I'll call you when your cue is done I don't really care what you want in a cue ... I'm building this cue just be happy with what you get and praise me for taking the time to build it for you... Cue builders just seem to take forever I have waited for years to get a cue ....You don't even get to try the cues out they are shipped to you and you hope you get a custom cue that has a good hit to it with good quality products in it...

Of course the positives are you get to pick the wood ... The wieght , maybe have a say in the design of the cue ... Sometimes you meet some great people in these cue builders and become friends. It can be a very good experience it can also be a nightmare from hell... I have really asked myself of late is it worth the risk... As this post shows...

On the other hand the Production cue ... Joss and Schon put out some very nice looking cues .. I have played with some and they hit very good as well...
You can walk into a store and they ussually have a very goood selection so you can find something you like ... You can try the cue out see how it hits and how it feels. Most of the time a Joss or Schon is priced cheaper then a good quality Custom from a well known cue maker. Of course they don't hold their value as well as a custom at least not on this forum... I have stopped alot of late and wondered about all of these things... And thought I would put it down in this forum to see what others think...

I have a friend who plays very good pool... So good that Archer came down here to play him years ago... He always says it is not the arrow but the person who is holding the arrow... He will play off the wall and beat you to death on a table ... He often tells me that nice pool cues are nice to look at and give you a consistant tool to use... But other then that it is all mental that is if you can shoot, you can shoot with a broom stick as well as with a million dollar cue... Just some thoughts running through my head what is your opinion of Custom -vs- Production....
Click to expand...

Customs are more about pride of ownership and other intangibles having to do with appreciating the art of cue making. Sometimes it's as simple as wanting a specific design not otherwise available, or just wanting to own the coolest cue or the hottest name cue maker at the time. The desire to own a custom cues can be kind of self-indulgent, an unnecessary luxury we are willing to spend money on, or they can be something simple that a player really liked and wanted to have.

Most custom cue owners are very proud of their cues and had good experiences with the cue maker.

When I first got back into pool six or seven years ago, I was a little shocked to see how many regular players out here have high dollar custom cues. The custom cue scene really blossomed in the last 20 years.

My experience is that most production cues are competent pool cues and play as good as most customs. The issue is more about pride of ownership, appreciation of fine craftsmanship, and I would even stretch it to say personal fulfillment.

Chris
 
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deanoc said:
Custom cues allow me to get what I want and make a profit since they go up in value.

Why do people buy rolex when they can get the time of day off their cell phone?
Why buy a Picaso when a polaroid looks more like the object

Why go to a nice steak house instead of Mc Donalds

But the answer is so obvious I suspect the purpose of the thread is to upset someone on AZ and that's usually not too hard to do.

In 1973 I bought a new Balabushka and a new Cadillac,the cue cost $125 and its worth about $15,000 today.That Cadillac cost me $7,000 then, and its not worth much.

Custom cue went up,production anything didn't
Click to expand...

did you take as good of care of the caddy as you did the bala?
 
I like a cue that weighs about 15 oz, has a thin butt, no wrap, no ferrule, 12mm tip. Find me a production cue like that and I'll be interested.

That's what custom cues are 'bout. Gettin what you want.

Not to mention he artistry of the construction, the asthetics, the "soul".

It's like jazz. The man is portrayed in the work.
 
In my experience all my custom cue makers have been local! They service my cues on a monthly basis and I have built up a relationship with that builder. A production outfit is not as personal for many reasons.

My local custom cue builders have numerous experimental cue combinations to try out and often ask for visitors/customer input! In many ways the builder will work with you and rework your cue over and over again! I have witnessed 60 inchers converted to 58 inches, weight added and weight removed. Shaft tapers modified, ferrulles swapped out & tips changed!

I strongly believe in this method of buying custom and working with your "LOCAL" cue builder. I am totally against buying from strangers!!!!

To often pool players are too busy drinking the kool aid about this builder and that builder being the best and fail to remember that the custom cue maker needs CUSTOMER INPUT to make it work for the customers style of play and stroke. That means reworking and modifying the cue! I have never seen or heard of this happening with production cues. With production cues all sales are final and you buy "as is". When you get that production cue and realize the butt is a little too fat for your hands, you are forced to go beggin the custom shop to turn it down and refinish your production cue!

Kid Dynomite
 
I buy customs because I get what I want. Unlike you I've never had any big issues with cuemakers. Problems seem to follow you around when ordering custom cues. If that was the case with me I'd probably just shoot with a schon or a joss and call it good.
 
The King said:
Just some thoughts running through my head what is your opinion of Custom -vs- Production....
Click to expand...

Your avatar is truly disturbing, I just threw up in my mouth a little :grin:

I have a cheap little custom.....it's probably 1 of 5 or so made by that maker and none of them are exactly alike.....that's what about I love about my cheapie custom cue.....it's nothing special, but it was hand made by a couple of guys, the points are sharp, and nobody else has one exactly like it.....

That's it......I have respect for quality production cues, but somebody a few houses can have one exactly like it.....my little custom is my own....
 
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The King said:
You see it all the time here on the forums people posting saying they have gotten ripped off by cue makers... Or their cues have taken years and years to build and they have not seen the cue yet... Eason Cues and Eddie Wheat Cues come to mind as rip off artists... I have heard stories of well known cue makers ripping people off also ... No big names to avoid controversy this thread is not about people being ripped off but about production over custom....

Many Custon Cues seem to be over priced , Sometimes you send in your deposit or pay up front and it just takes forever to get the cue... Family member died or the cue maker just keeps putting you off because you were foolish enough to pay a large sum up front and they see no need to get your cue done, they got most of your money... Yeah they say they don't need a deposit on here till you call and then in private it is a different story.... Or perhaps the woods you picked turn out to look far better then the builder thought and he thinks he can sell this outstanding looking wood for a much higher price then he quoted you ... So he sells your cue to someone else for a bigger profit... I mean this forum is constantly full of posts similar to this concerning cue builders... Not to mention the cue builders who think they are God and come at you with the attitude of I'm the greatest why are you even talking to me ...lol... Hang up I'll call you when your cue is done I don't really care what you want in a cue ... I'm building this cue just be happy with what you get and praise me for taking the time to build it for you... Cue builders just seem to take forever I have waited for years to get a cue ....You don't even get to try the cues out they are shipped to you and you hope you get a custom cue that has a good hit to it with good quality products in it...

Of course the positives are you get to pick the wood ... The wieght , maybe have a say in the design of the cue ... Sometimes you meet some great people in these cue builders and become friends. It can be a very good experience it can also be a nightmare from hell... I have really asked myself of late is it worth the risk... As this post shows...

On the other hand the Production cue ... Joss and Schon put out some very nice looking cues .. I have played with some and they hit very good as well...
You can walk into a store and they ussually have a very goood selection so you can find something you like ... You can try the cue out see how it hits and how it feels. Most of the time a Joss or Schon is priced cheaper then a good quality Custom from a well known cue maker. Of course they don't hold their value as well as a custom at least not on this forum... I have stopped alot of late and wondered about all of these things... And thought I would put it down in this forum to see what others think...

I have a friend who plays very good pool... So good that Archer came down here to play him years ago... He always says it is not the arrow but the person who is holding the arrow... He will play off the wall and beat you to death on a table ... He often tells me that nice pool cues are nice to look at and give you a consistant tool to use... But other then that it is all mental that is if you can shoot, you can shoot with a broom stick as well as with a million dollar cue... Just some thoughts running through my head what is your opinion of Custom -vs- Production....
Click to expand...


lol, well, in some ways it's kind of like the old, "If you have to ask..."

Truthfully, as someone who just ordered his second Ginacue today, I can tell you that ordering and getting and playing with a bespoken cue is one of the great pleasures in life. You don't need it, but you want it, can buy it, and if you're working with a maker of repute, you're going to get exactly what you expect.

The thing about a custom cue is not so much that it's handmade -- which is huge -- and it's not even that's it's made to your specifications, though indeed it is. It's that if you're at the point of being confident in ordering a custom cue from a cue maker who knows his business, then it follows that you know precisely what you want (and can afford) in a pool cue. You have arrived. I can't put any more simply. Let's face it, "custom" cue makers nowadays are a dime a dozen. Over the course of my pool playing life, I have had the pleasure of working with a number of big names (and some not so big, but nonetheless excellent cue makers). But when you are talking about a true custom cue from one of the masters, it is something special.

Think of it as ordering a custom pair of boots or shoes. Does anybody need them? No. But if you know who you're dealing with you know that when they finally arrive they will be beautiful and fit perfectly and will give you years of pleasure and comfort. It's like that with a custom cue -- by the time you're ready to invest, you should already know what you want.

I know I want a cue that looks and plays like a Ginacue because I've played Ginacues and with Szambotis and Blacks and Scruggs and Southwests, and a lot of other guy's cues. And when the new Gina shows up I know it will look exactly the way I want it to look; it will feel exactly the way I expect it to feel; and it will play just as perfectly as my other Gina.

It is all I want in a pool cue: pedigree, looks, precision, and playability.

And, it is to be my 25th anniversary present from my wife, Gail. If so inclined, you can read more about the 10th anniversary Gina here, about six posts in:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=196241&highlight=gina+figueroa

And about the refinishing job 14 years later here:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=176799&highlight=gina+figueroa

Nobody needs a custom cue. But oh my God, it is great to open up the mailing tube, take it out, and know it's all yours.

Lou Figueroa
thanks, Baby
 
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The King said:
You see it all the time here on the forums people posting saying they have gotten ripped off by cue makers... Or their cues have taken years and years to build and they have not seen the cue yet... Eason Cues and Eddie Wheat Cues come to mind as rip off artists... I have heard stories of well known cue makers ripping people off also ... No big names to avoid controversy this thread is not about people being ripped off but about production over custom....

Many Custon Cues seem to be over priced , Sometimes you send in your deposit or pay up front and it just takes forever to get the cue... Family member died or the cue maker just keeps putting you off because you were foolish enough to pay a large sum up front and they see no need to get your cue done, they got most of your money... Yeah they say they don't need a deposit on here till you call and then in private it is a different story.... Or perhaps the woods you picked turn out to look far better then the builder thought and he thinks he can sell this outstanding looking wood for a much higher price then he quoted you ... So he sells your cue to someone else for a bigger profit... I mean this forum is constantly full of posts similar to this concerning cue builders... Not to mention the cue builders who think they are God and come at you with the attitude of I'm the greatest why are you even talking to me ...lol... Hang up I'll call you when your cue is done I don't really care what you want in a cue ... I'm building this cue just be happy with what you get and praise me for taking the time to build it for you... Cue builders just seem to take forever I have waited for years to get a cue ....You don't even get to try the cues out they are shipped to you and you hope you get a custom cue that has a good hit to it with good quality products in it...

Of course the positives are you get to pick the wood ... The wieght , maybe have a say in the design of the cue ... Sometimes you meet some great people in these cue builders and become friends. It can be a very good experience it can also be a nightmare from hell... I have really asked myself of late is it worth the risk... As this post shows...

On the other hand the Production cue ... Joss and Schon put out some very nice looking cues .. I have played with some and they hit very good as well...
You can walk into a store and they ussually have a very goood selection so you can find something you like ... You can try the cue out see how it hits and how it feels. Most of the time a Joss or Schon is priced cheaper then a good quality Custom from a well known cue maker. Of course they don't hold their value as well as a custom at least not on this forum... I have stopped alot of late and wondered about all of these things... And thought I would put it down in this forum to see what others think...

I have a friend who plays very good pool... So good that Archer came down here to play him years ago... He always says it is not the arrow but the person who is holding the arrow... He will play off the wall and beat you to death on a table ... He often tells me that nice pool cues are nice to look at and give you a consistant tool to use... But other then that it is all mental that is if you can shoot, you can shoot with a broom stick as well as with a million dollar cue... Just some thoughts running through my head what is your opinion of Custom -vs- Production....
Click to expand...


I think a production cue is just what you need, I would not change a thing.

JIMO
 
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