Why Pool Halls Are Failing...

Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

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Recently, and currently, there have been a number of notices here about pool halls closing.

Can anyone share what they feel it is that is causing this?

When you see a pool hall that has been in biz for 50 years going down, you tend to think that it's not to do with bad management, though, perhaps there may have been a lack of effort to change with the changing times.

Billiards Ink looked like a gorgeous place; what happened there? Didn't they just recently reopen under new ownership (former NFL player?)?

Is it just the crappy economy?

Has poker taken away too much from the potential pool demographic? :confused:

Any thoughts?

Best,
Brian kc
 
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I think it's a combination of things with each hall's closure being a different combination.

A changing economy is definitely part of it.

Smoking bans are part of it.

Society evolving is part of it.

"Political correctness": Part of it.

The list is long...
 
internet
online poker
video games
social network sites
smoking bans
no youth programs to cultivate young players
no movies about pool to stimulate interest
etc.
etc.
etc.
 
I still play leagues/tournaments at poolhalls, but since acquiring my own home table, I'm spending less time AND money at the poolhall. I still spend a fair share of money there, just not near as much as I use to.

Maniac
 
The biggest failing is improper management. They target the wrong client and design to sell the wrong product. To make the business work you need a client base of average people who enjoy going out and playing pool not the 'pool player'. You need to provide good food and atmosphere in a clean environment where guys can bring their dates and be comfortable and spend some money. It's all about the money. The local #1 room here is doing better now than ever and fits this description. There are 20 pool tables and regularly have a waiting list but pool time is only about 10 per cent or so of the income. Food and drink is the rest.
Smoking bans are the one main problem the management can't do much about as that has killed a number of pool rooms and bars. Here we have a reasonable ban allowing smoking if you are 21 and older only. And this room is smoker friendly with smoke eaters and air exchange systems.
 
In my experience:
1.) Rent - rent is through the roof, but it isn't just greedy landlords. The landlords must make a profit.
Because of rent, the price of table time goes up.

After an owner (I was never a room owner, but worked at a pool hall for about 3 years and still am very good friends with the owner) has had absolutely enough and gets sick of deciding which utility to sacrifice, he gives up.

The players understandably don't like the owner's lack of enthusiasm and higher table time, and either leave, or stay and complain. This makes the owner more miserable. Which makes the players more miserable.

It's just a vicious cycle where everyone loses. The owner says F!@# it, and moves on with life.

2.) People don't like to play pool in enough quantity to overcome the problem in 1.). Regulars are an absolute must, but regulars alone won't even let you break even.
 
Fatboy expanded on it in another thread recently and I think he made a lot of good points. Basically the culture has changed. There are just many more things to do that compete with pool for our leisure time. When I was young there was very little reason to stay in the house. There were only 6 or 7 channels on the TV, no video games, no internet, kid's activities such as little league didn't take up nearly as much time as it does now for both the kids and the parents, etc.

It's not like there was nothing else to do back then. We went to a dance (basically live rock & roll bands) every Friday and Saturday night, but the pool hall was in the rotation of activities. A typical Saturday was spending the day in the pool hall, watch Get Smart at 7PM, hit the dance, go to the pool hall, get a late night bite to eat, go home.

The pool hall has just been edged out and is no longer in the mix. We tend to think that only pool has suffered but other things have fallen off the rotation too. My son is 19 so I'm pretty familiar with the fact that they don't have weekly live music ("dances" as we called them back then) every where like they used to either. Those are pretty much gone too.

And that's as far as the kids go. Adult life has changed as well. My parents went out to dinner one night a week. Another night they were in their bowling league. My mom had her card game she went to religiously every other Monday night. My dad had his weekly Tuesday night volleyball game with his friends and Sunday morning double-header softball game in the summer. Most parents now spend a lot more time with their kids (even though they don't think they do). That's not a bad thing.
 
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The base blood for poolrooms was manufacturing and mill workers. the big cities and large communities had the large and medium rooms.the smaller towns as you traveled from cities to the country had small rooms with a grill and cold beer.Dad worked in a mill and had three sons.one of the boys hanged around the local room.the city boys had shiny shoes and clean shirts.while the country boys came out of the field.people would gather after work or during work to play a few games and talk about the future.if you made a twenty dollar score it added to what you got from you job.tomorrow always looked better than yesterday. well the mills and the factories are gone.the little towns are dead.that twenty dollar bill is worth two dollars and tomorrow looks like Armageddon.everybody is kicking into survival gear and there is nothing in a poolroom that is considered a necessity.

bill
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Recently, and currently, there have been a number of notices here about pool halls closing.

Can anyone share what they feel it is that is causing this?

When you see a pool hall that has been in biz for 50 years going down, you tend to think that it's not to do with bad management, though, perhaps there may have been a lack of effort to change with the changing times.

Billiards Ink looked like a gorgeous place; what happened there? Didn't they just recently reopen under new ownership (former NFL player?)?

Is it just the crappy economy?

Has poker taken away too much from the potential pool demographic? :confused:

Any thoughts?

Best,
Brian kc
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Charlies Billiards in Denver just shutdown too, they were only open for a year, formerly the CCC. It sucks. Denver needs a good private room, just for real players. like a membership kind of deal.
 
pwd72s said:
"Political correctness": Part of it.
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I'm curious on this, if by political correctness you mean the smoking ban that may be correct. But I know for me personally, being a non smoker, I'm more likely to go into a pool hall now than when they were full of smoke. Although I do understand I'm in the minority probably in that community and would deal with it. I'm just curious as to what you meant by political correctness.
 
In NJ it can be contributed to a lot of factors. But the biggest is the economy. With no one having much disposable income it's very tough to pull a living out of the pool hall. It's also rent, pool halls take up space and that means you pay a lot. Property tax contributes very highly in that discussion. If the landlords didn't have ridiculous property taxes, then they could pass the savings on, but in NJ, that isn't happening.

High taxes = higher table time costs

Bad economy = No disposable income

The two of these together mean no pool hall.

Smoking bans are a convienent source of blame but if you are in a state that enforces state wide bans it's the same for everyone. So it takes that out of the equation. In NJ butts are 8 a pack or higher and if you have that 2 a day habit you're broke.

Management is always questionable. Most tend not to look for business but want business to look for them, it doesn't work that way.

I ran a few calculations / spreadsheets when I was looking. It wasn't pretty.

JV
 
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spktur said:
The local #1 room here is doing better now than ever and fits this description. There are 20 pool tables and regularly have a waiting list but pool time is only about 10 per cent or so of the income. Food and drink is the rest.
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if only 10% of there income is pool then i gotta ask why the owner doesnt do a special that could really help get younger people interested in the sport. buy a pitcher of beer and get a hour of table time for free. or something along those lines.

this applies to all bars, in my area pool time cost $12/hr, quite expensive if you plan to have a couple of drinks. so if me and my buddies go out buy a pitcher of beer at $16, is it unacceptable that the bar could offer even a halfhour of table time for free. keeps everyone interested in playing pool, and to your facts about the 10% it will increase the profit for the local establishment.
 
Not sure if it's still this way...but Jillian's in Seattle ran a Lunch Special from 11 am-3 pm that if you bought lunch, your table time was free. Seemed like a good deal for 4 hours of play.

Lisa
 
Please people don't take this the wrong way (I"m not trying to be a jerk)....and I understand that effort is an absolute must but:

You can't give table time away right now. Specials are important, no doubt, but I've seen about two rooms try to literally hand the public the keys to the place...to no avail.

I'm not saying specials don't bring people in. From what I have seen, and this is certainly not dispositive:
1.) Specials are more likely to get people to stay, rather than bring people in.
2.) A relationship is what turns a customer into a regular
3.) By the time you think it is time to start working out a plan that
a.) modifies table time, or b.) involves "working a deal" in any regard.

then the writing is on the wall.


The economy is toast. People have no money. Pool is low on the list of "disposable income" - if that even exists anymore. It is very sad, but its a storm we are gonna have to ride out.

It seems like the rooms that make it are the "last one standing" so to speak - the players need to go somewhere.
And by rooms, I don't mean bars. I mean a pool room - if that even exists anymore either.
 
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rocesm12 said:
if only 10% of there income is pool then i gotta ask why the owner doesnt do a special that could really help get younger people interested in the sport. buy a pitcher of beer and get a hour of table time for free. or something along those lines.

this applies to all bars, in my area pool time cost $12/hr, quite expensive if you plan to have a couple of drinks. so if me and my buddies go out buy a pitcher of beer at $16, is it unacceptable that the bar could offer even a halfhour of table time for free. keeps everyone interested in playing pool, and to your facts about the 10% it will increase the profit for the local establishment.
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Because the pool is simply a draw to help get people to come to the business. Like I said earlier, he generally has a waiting list for a table most nights. By having good food and drink business he is able to make 9 times as much income from food and drink. With 20 tables the place is full now. This is one of the more successful pool rooms in the country and that is my point. More room owners could make it if they would put forth the effort in the food and drink business instead of trying to live off table rent.
 
Well

In the small town of Paducah, I think the pool halls are doing well and more are being built!

Why?

What most dont want to admit is that the owners have to constantly "WORK" it. Dickie runs leagues, tournaments, encourages new players, caters to the the regulars, gets the tables recovered TWICE a year, you name it.

Like most things, most want to blame this and that, but those who are successful are those you constantly look to see and adjust as necessary to ensure that they are successful.

I have never heard any owner saying this is a goldmine, but I do know that the poolroom owners here appreciate HONEST help, and listen to their customers.

For those who are not successful, maybe they should evaluate THEMSELVES to see why they arent successful.

Ken
 
I think alot of it up here in Canada is that most pool halls fail to realize that people want a more relaxing casual atmosphere and more complete experience of eating, drinking, watching some sports/TV, and playing some pool, all rolled into one.

Truth is the "This is Ames, we don't have a TV, don't have a bar, don't have nothing really other then pool" attitude does not work with todays crowd of younger people that grew up with video games, reality TV, MMA, and all the other massive media doses that killed their attention spans for singular things.

You need to have a nice booth for each table where people can sit and chat, put drinks, ect... people cannot be stuck up against a rail sitting on an uncomfortable stool trying not to spill their drink and dodge waitresses. You need the big screen TV. If you are the pool room owner that thinks that jukebox that makes $2 each 6 songs and that must be plugged or else your whole place is in silence is "making" you money you are wrong, the silent pool hall is losing you business to that pub that plays tunes and is now selling those people $12 rounds each 20 minutes while they sit, chat, and plug a bar box.

The reason why the true "pool hall" makes no money? Because people who come to your place to play pool are going to spend way less money then a person who is comming to your place with some friends or a date as a night out. You need the latter to make the money.

Most of the pool halls I know of that are doing well are not catering to pool players, they are catering to people who enjoy playing pool. There is a big difference.
 
JusticeNJ said:
In my experience:
1.) Rent - rent is through the roof, but it isn't just greedy landlords. The landlords must make a profit.
Because of rent, the price of table time goes up.
Click to expand...

This is huge. I have priced many buildings that are for sale or rent and they are outrageous. I guess people would rather let a place set empty for years than drop the price on it. The only places tat are still going strong are those that do not rely on pool as their main income. Sport's bar's and place's with alcohol obviously do better and it's a shame to see place's close up that have been open for many year's.
 
Rooms are failing for one simple reason - pool's not as popular as it used to be. If fewer people play pool there will be fewer pool rooms. The bad economy or smoking bans have only accelerated a trend that was already there. I think Fatboy gave some good reasons why pool's popularity has declined, and there doesn't seem to be any turnaround in sight. Sad.
 
failing pool halls

Perception=reputation. I've been around this game for over 50 years and until the publics view of pool changes then businesses will fail. I'm part of the problem and some of other oldtimers are right in there with me because we had a mentality of making a buck from chumps when and however we could. You gamble in Vegas its OK. Got glitzey hotels with all the trappings and its cool to go and drop a few hundred bucks with odds that all but guarentees that you will come home a loser, but thats OK, its Vegas. Tell your girl friend or wife that you lost a few bucks at the poolhall and she wants to know what you were doing there in the first place. Our rep stinks and until that changes Joe Blow stays home and no new blood comes along. I like the old way but thats not the business model for sucess.
 
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