Why would you open a room today...

[BigDogatLarge]

I live in an area that has many pool players and two rooms that cater to them. There is a third room that doesn't have the leagues anymore. I know a fourth room would "make it" here. The other rooms don't have to tours stopping by and don't run many independant tournaments. I have my ideas about a new room and how to manage it. What I want to know is, why or why not, would you open a new room in todays market. Thoughts and ideas, please.

Thank you,

Dwight

 

[Fuji-whopper]

It would be catered to tournaments and leagues, with sitting room and bleachers for those types of events. The pool rooms that exist now aren't geared for them and it's hell trying to find sitting room for scorekeepers and team members in leagues or separated chairs for bigger tournaments.

Food is also something that is limited to microwave crap most of the time so you lose a lot of money due to people eating elsewhere. These are things that to me are most prevelant with the events I attend these days and see on a daily basis at our room in Jacksonville. The room owners do the best they can but dedicating space to people just watching cuts into profits by not having tables that bring in revenue so it's hard to justify it.

Having a pool room with a changeable configuration would be optimal, but how do you do that?

 

[Purdman]

I live in an area that has many pool players and two rooms that cater to them. There is a third room that doesn't have the leagues anymore. I know a fourth room would "make it" here. The other rooms don't have to tours stopping by and don't run many independant tournaments. I have my ideas about a new room and how to manage it. What I want to know is, why or why not, would you open a new room in todays market. Thoughts and ideas, please.

Thank you,

Dwight

I Don't think it is a bad idea. I would wait and see how the economy goes.

jmho, Purdman

 

[BigDogatLarge]

It would be catered to tournaments and leagues, with sitting room and bleachers for those types of events. The pool rooms that exist now aren't geared for them and it's hell trying to find sitting room for scorekeepers and team members in leagues or separated chairs for bigger tournaments.

Food is also something that is limited to microwave crap most of the time so you lose a lot of money due to people eating elsewhere. These are things that to me are most prevelant with the events I attend these days and see on a daily basis at our room in Jacksonville. The room owners do the best they can but dedicating space to people just watching cuts into profits by not having tables that bring in revenue so it's hard to justify it.

Having a pool room with a changeable configuration would be optimal, but how do you do that?

I agree with you about seating and accommodations for league players. Maybe a two story room with the first floor for everyday play and the upper floor with a stadium type seating around 8 nine foot tables for finals in the tournaments. When the room isn't being used for a tourney, let the better players up there to play in peace and quiet. I was also thinking about yearly fees as in a country club format. Pay your dues monthly and have 24/7 access via a swipe card in the door. Whomever you bring as a guest is your responsibilty. I am also a chef and have the food part down. You have good ideas and I am sure you will be on the planning commitee. lol Thanks Neil

Dwight

 

[BigDogatLarge]

I Don't think it is a bad idea. I would wait and see how the economy goes.

jmho, Purdman

The economy seems to be the climate these days. In your opinion, how many investors would you have for funding?

Dwight

 

[desi2960]

i thought about it

no pool rooms in my area, only bars. in the last 4 years there have been 8 bars close for lack of business. i live in mid missouri and have looked into cost of opening a pool room and how long it would take to recover my investment. i.ve decided no. last week on cnn morning news they said for you to live in 2008 at the same standard you lived in 2007 it cost $5860.00 more. if you did not get at least a $112.69 a week raise. you are living at a lower standard than last year. chuck

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Head Purdman's advice.

 

[CrownCityCorey]

It would be catered to tournaments and leagues, with sitting room and bleachers for those types of events. The pool rooms that exist now aren't geared for them and it's hell trying to find sitting room for scorekeepers and team members in leagues or separated chairs for bigger tournaments.

Food is also something that is limited to microwave crap most of the time so you lose a lot of money due to people eating elsewhere. These are things that to me are most prevelant with the events I attend these days and see on a daily basis at our room in Jacksonville. The room owners do the best they can but dedicating space to people just watching cuts into profits by not having tables that bring in revenue so it's hard to justify it.

Having a pool room with a changeable configuration would be optimal, but how do you do that?

I'd rather have a Jazz/Supper Club (ala DeNiro in The Score), with a private back room (2-4 Diamonds 9' or better yet all Brunswick Arcade 9') specifically for my regulars, friends, serious players, and action. :thumbup:

Let the food & bar pay for the nicely kept poolroom.

 

[rhncue]

Head Purdman's advice.

I know that in this area, (Cincinnati) the only people who would attempt to open a new room would have to be mad at their money.

In the last 3 or 4 years there have been 13 rooms that have closed. 2 have reopened under new owners but they are both in trouble again. The pool scene is very gloomy in Southwestern Ohio.

Dick

 

[Nostroke]

Some things ive thought about

Design the room with some sort of partitions so that you can open just half the joint during the day and not pay to AC the whole joint.

Screw the TV's at every table- No one ever watches those things. If there is something really big, they can come up to watch in the front for a minute or two. 20 tables= 2 TV's.

Use Carpet Tile instead of the usual wall to wall. Replacing worn out areas is a snap-No more duct tape.

Make sure there is extra room around 10% of the tables for Players.

You do not need GC's or Diamonds or Simonis for most tables. No sense wasting money so the Bangers can spill beer on your beautiful table. A few new GC or Diamonds up front and second hand or Gandys in the back for the Bangers. If leagues are big in your area, make sure you have some 7 footers- a good idea no matter what as a matter of fact.

Makes sure the Speakers around the front tables can be turned off.

 

[TXsouthpaw]

I'd rather have a Jazz/Supper Club (ala DeNiro in The Score), with a private back room (2-4 Diamonds 9' or better yet all Brunswick Arcade 9') specifically for my regulars, friends, serious players, and action. :thumbup:

Let the food & bar pay for the nicely kept poolroom.

I was thinkin the same thing the other day. A resteraunt or club with pool in the back room. 2 barboxes and 2 nines. Sorts like the back room of the meat market in the sopranos. a place to play and eat and relax and be left alone.

 

[mosconiac]

I'd love to be able to say "go for it" but it's a bad move right now. Wait a few years for the pool cycle to come back around. It has peaks and valleys. '65-75 were a boom. '85-95 were a boom. When's the next boom? When's the next big pool movie?

 

[TheCaveman]

In my opinion, after running a pool room, I'll tell you this. There is no money in Table Time. The whole strategy is to get people to stay in your joint. That means, you have to have good drinks, good food and entertainment. Lots of TV for the sports crowd and maybe eye candy to keep the single guys spending dough. Not trying to demoralize women, but that is why places like Hooters and such thrive. Beautiful women slingin drinks. Make sure to sell tobacco products and provide a place for the smokers to smoke if, in your neck of the woods, there is an indoor smoking ban.

Tournaments get people in and league does the same, but the cash cow is alcohol. So to be successful in that business, you have to center around that. That sort of gets in the way of the "serious" player, but ehh, if you do it right you'll have no problem.

Economy is tough right now so lending and financial backing may be rough. Just remember, table time does not pay the bills. It's not like the old days where pool halls could thrive on table time. I know I'm repeating myself, but there is a reason why.


If you can do all that successfully, keep your tables in good condition and have "serious" player tournaments once a month (a local/state tour or something) and maybe have one or two weekly tournaments. Get Dart Boards and get a dart league. It will supplement your income. Dart players love to drink. When I ran my joint, I made more money off two teams playing darts and drinking, then every table in the house.

Make sure have a restaurant with good food and a place for people to enjoy it. There was a nice joint in Albuquerque, NM called Doc and Eddies. Right next to a strip club. Anyway, they had decent tables, good food and an awesome staff. That was 10 years ago when I was there, but I never forgot that place.

Hope some of these tips help. All and all, I always looked at owning another room only if I needed a tax write off if that tells you anything. However, I'd own a nice nightclub/bar in a heart beat that had some tables if the main business strategy was to sell drinks and provide entertainment with pool being a side shoot.

*deposits 2cents

 

[manwon]

I live in an area that has many pool players and two rooms that cater to them. There is a third room that doesn't have the leagues anymore. I know a fourth room would "make it" here. The other rooms don't have to tours stopping by and don't run many independant tournaments. I have my ideas about a new room and how to manage it. What I want to know is, why or why not, would you open a new room in todays market. Thoughts and ideas, please.

Thank you,

Dwight

Dwight, the only way to succeed in this business is to offer something no one else has to offer. I opened my room in September 2004, in Lakewood, Washington a suburb of Tacoma. The first thing I did when starting my research, was to check out the local competition. I went to every pool hall in the entire state, and took notes, to see what in my opinion I could use, and what was the same over and over again. My knowledge of running a business was very limited, and I had much to learn, but common sense told me that being multi-functional was the key to success. If anyone has noticed over the last two years, 90% of the rooms closing have a very similar business plan. All most all of these rooms focused their energy toward renting tables, selling a little food, and selling Alcohol. In my opinion while these are all important parts or running a pool they are only parts that must be integrated in a larger picture.

Today, I think you must completely crossover into all things Billiards related, below is a list of things I have integrated into my business, along with the above.

1) Excellent Equipment that is well maintained, in a comfortable playing environment that is CLEAN and well temperature controlled ( AC / Heat )

2) Reasonable Rates for your equipment and Membership programs that include Seniors and students. These programs should be offered during your slow times ( Open to 6:00 pm and 7 days a week). Locally I charge $60 per month during the above time frame, and $45 for Seniors and students.

3) Pool Leagues are a great asset to any pool room and if you include the next two steps they will be all the more valuable to your business.

4) Retail sales of Billiards equipment is necessary for any pool room. I keep close to 200 cues in cases around the room for sale on a daily basis. In addition to cues, I stock a full compliment of cue cases and all billiards accessories. This will also keep you busy during slow times when you are not maxing out on table rental. In addition, I offer APA, and BCA players with a current ID Card a 5% discount on all item in addition to the normal 20% which I take off all equipment when I price it. I also offer a trade-in program for any cue I sell, which keeps people coming back when they want to upgrade as their ability increases. The only requirement I have is that the new cue must be at least $100 more than the cue being traded-in. Trade-in value is based on the condition of the cue being traded-in, if the cue is in like new condition, the person can get 85% of what was paid for the cue in trade-in value.

5) Cue Repair, this is a very big money maker for any pool room if the work is quality, and the turn around time is reasonable. In my pool room we do all forms of cue repair from Tips to complete refinish work. Normally jobs like weight adjustment, tip replacement, Bumper replacement, Cue wrap replacement, and Joint / Butt refacing are done while the customer waits. This is especially a valuable asset to the league players, because they can get all of the above accomplished while they are playing league which saves them time. In addition, all the other forms of cue repair will also keep you busy during those slow times. I also build limited custom cues for my local customers which also makes for some nice additional income for my business.

By integrating all of the above into your pool room you will have a winning combination. Now you will not make a lot of Friends with the Billiards retailers or other local cue repairmen, you can never forget Business is business and you have to do what will make it work for your business.

I hope this information helps, all I can say it have worked very very well for me!!!!!

 

[highrun55]

Never again

I would not in open a pool room in todays economic state. Its to hard to pay the bills anymore.

If a good ole pool hall could make it I would. But those type of rooms are fading fast, you have to be an entertainment center to make it. I probably could/will be the next room to close if it don`t get better soon. And im as serious as a heart attack I kid you not.


highrun

 

[Johnnyt]

I live in an area that has many pool players and two rooms that cater to them. There is a third room that doesn't have the leagues anymore. I know a fourth room would "make it" here. The other rooms don't have to tours stopping by and don't run many independant tournaments. I have my ideas about a new room and how to manage it. What I want to know is, why or why not, would you open a new room in todays market. Thoughts and ideas, please.

Thank you,

Dwight

How many table room are you thinking about? Just 9 footers or a mix with 7 footers? Beer, wine, hard stuff?

If you are looking to just make a living I'd say try an 8-12 table room with beer, wine and booze. I would have 2/3 of the tables 7 footers. This type of room can be run by one person most of the time. You won't get rich, but if your in a good location and you know how to treat people and run a business, I believe you would do OK.

Most today want to hire all kinds of help before they have the business coming in. The problem with most rooms I've seen open over the years was they were opened by pool players that wanted to just sit back and collect the money. It don't work that way. Good luck to you which ever way you go. Johnnyt

 

[Fatboy]

there are alot of better places to invest your $$$ than a pool room, it might sound like fun to buy your hang out and thats about what it would be. But if your serious about making $$$ why open a business thats in a sector of businesses that are dropping like flys.

If I had alot of time and wanted to buy a place to hang out I would buy the building, used GC tables for $1000 each(yes thats possible) and do the build out myself, you have alot more control when you own the building and have a exit stragity close the pool room and rent it out. This would minimize the risk, the return would be bad, I dont see people flocking to poolrooms anywhere. There are just to many different things to do these days for recreation and with the state of the economy pool can be expensive, charging $4/hr isnt gonna pay the bills, the bar biz can be good in some markets but then the pool room has to be a secondary part of the biz.

you have to hate $$$ to open a pool room in most markets. sad.:frown:

 

[jay helfert]

As usual, when it comes to business Fatboy makes a lot of sense. Of course, he's used to making BIG money, much more than you can make in any poolroom, no matter how successful.

I've opened four and done fairly well in all of them. Two I owned out right and two with partner(s). The key to opening a room is making sure it's the right situation. A few keys are:

1. LOW RENT and a good lease. Like five years with an option for five more.
2. ALL necessary licenses, including pool, video games, food sales, alcohol, and equipment sales.
3. Good demographics in your area. A middle class neighborhood is fine. And not an area full of vacancies and foreclosures.
4. A good landlord (or ownership) who will make some tenant improvements in exchange for a long lease. Like carpeting, interior painting, bathroom upgrades, kitchen set-up etc. You also want 2-3 months free rent to have time to get opened.

When you have all the above you're ready for phase two. Buying all the equipment you need at favorable prices. Like Eric said, it's a buyer's market right now for everything including pool tables and kitchen appliances.

Once you open, then the first few months (4-6 months minimum) you must PROMOTE, PROMOTE, PROMOTE! Let everyone within a 3-5 mile radius know you are here. Discount flyers on cars and doorknobs is surprisingly effective and cheap. 20% off coupons will bring them in the first time.

Hire some attractive girls to work your counter and bar. Sorry ladies, but that's what works. I like short shifts, like six hours. They won't get burned out either. Check your local labor laws. There may be ways to get out of paying Workman's Compensation, like using part time workers for instance. In California 24 hours or less a week is a part time job. That's four 6 hour shifts. And pay them well! If they do a good job reward them, and if not (like stealing) get rid of them. You may have to hire 20 people to find four or five good ones. When you find them, keep them!

Have a good security system in place, so you can monitor the entire poolroom from your office, including behind the bar/counter area. More businesses fail because of internal theft than any other reason.

Add all the money makers you can, such as an ATM machine, juke box, candy machines (but not gum) and of course billiard supplies.

A small to medium sized room can provide a nice income for one family. In the neighborhood of $75-150,000 is very possible. For two families, it becomes a little rough, just not enough income.

Remember this, when you own a pool room, you have bought your self a FULL time job. 60-80 hours a week is normal. You are going to be open 365 days a year. Holidays will be big days for you. Yes, even Christmas and New Years are good days in the pool room business.

If you don't keep a close eye on your business it will surely fail. Leaving managers in charge while you travel and enjoy yourself is a recipe for disaster. You must be a visible owner! And the last thing, and the most important is treat your customers like they are your friends. Without them coming thru your doors you have nothing but an empty space.

I also like to give my regulars a monthly pass for say $60. They can play pool all day up until the time it gets busy at night, like 7 or 8 PM. If you have people in your poolroom during the day, it looks more inviting for strangers.

There's a lot more, but that's good for starters. Would I open another one? YES, if the situation was right. :wink:

 

[BigDogatLarge]

Thanks to you all...

You have all helped me to think about some of the things that I wouldn't have until I learned them the hard way and today that translates to money down the drain. I think I am in a good area and have around 90 APA teams playing out of two rooms five nights a week. There is talk of starting a BCA league as well. As for the tournament trail, I want to be involved in that as well. Tony Crosby, Mike Janis, Shannon Daulton, Tommy Kennedy, and others that I can't remember right now, have great tours and I would welcome each and every one of them to come and hold their respective events. I think it would be great to have the pros play a couple times a year and the top amatuers play as well. It is about pool for me, I am single and love the game. I also am a chef and know food and the people around here know me and if I were to open a room with my food and the level of customer service that I insist on, I think I would do well. Beer and wine is fine for pool players. Maybe later I could offer mixed drinks, but not so much. I just think if you treat people like they are the most important person, they will appreciate it and come back. I feel like it would take about a year to get established and I am not worried about getting rich, just offering the best damn pool room I can.

Again, Thank you all for the imput and keep it coming.

Dwight

 

[Scaramouche]

How do posters look at a food operation in a pool room?

From what I've seen, food operations, to be significantly profitable, require volume, that is, high traffic. Pool players tend to hang around for hours and not in large numbers. Staffing a small kitchen is a pain - low wages won't hold good staff - no backup or replacement amongst other employees. Prices can't be inflated because of competition in an area with sufficient population to support the pool room, and food quality can't be significantly worse.

Is the food operation profitable, or is it a break even proposition, a necessary expense?

Seems to me that the ideal situation would be a location beside thriving restaurant that would provide the food service.