WOW BIADO vs. PULPUL Biado forgot to call the 10 ball on the hill and lost

Neil said:
I'm the thick one, and you are the one making excuses for professionals not being held to a professional standard. Just curious what your response is to the other scenario I posted. About touching the cb and not having it affect the shot at hand at all. I'm sure you would call that an obvious foul, yet, it really is no different than this case when you boil it down.

You boil it all down, and what you guys are really saying is this- If you don't like the rule, or if you forget the rule, you are not to be held accountable for the rule. The rule in that case will then be dismissed. Have fun playing that way.:wink:
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The problem is the following:

1. It's not standard rules that 10-ball is (ever, as far as I know) played under;
2. According to Jay the tournament WAS claimed to be played under standard rules, so the whole thing may have been a misinterpretation of the rules rather than a new, clearly identified change;
3. It doesn't seem to have been consistently enforced, and looks like it was only enforced if the opponent called it.

Your example about touching the cue ball is not the same, because that's a standard rule from lax league situations all the way to more formal pro tournaments.

A better analogy would be if you breathed on the cue ball and the ref called it a foul because, he claimed, the WPA rules say that's a foul.
 
Here is the BCA rules regarding call shot for eightball.

1.6 Standard Call Shot
In games in which the shooter is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket must be
indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or
other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant. Only one ball may be called on each shot.
For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made, so if
there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination and similar shots, the shooter
should indicate the ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the shot to be
played, he may ask for a call.
Version 21/12/2007 – The Rules of Play Page 2 of 3


Again, the onus is on the opponent to ask for clarification if it is unclear but it should not be ruled to not count if the ref believed that was the intended shot.

Jaden
 
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King T said:
Who plays a whole tournament and doesn't know the rules? Didn't he watch any of the matches, didn't he see other people calling the pocket?

Didn't he hear about what Shane did the day before, wasn't that in the paper?
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Did you ever not win in a Simon Says game? Did you not know the rules?
 
nine_ball6970 said:
Why would he call the pocket out of habit if that isn't part of the rules he normally plays by? Typical rules for him do not include calling the 10 ball.
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Are you sure that Shane understood the rule as it was being interpreted in that tournament? As has been pointed out before, sometimes people call balls when by the rules they are not required to call them, including in games that are nominally "call shot".

In the end the rule change from the standard rules turned into a total disaster. Will you at least agree to that?
 
King T said:
Who plays a whole tournament and doesn't know the rules? Didn't he watch any of the matches, didn't he see other people calling the pocket?

Didn't he hear about what Shane did the day before, wasn't that in the paper?
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As I've pointed out before, many of the pros have no idea what the actual, printed rules say because they have never read them. Efren was well along in the 2000 US Open when he took a foul (against Dallas West) that showed he was totally ignorant of one rule. I agree that this "must call the 10" rule should have caused enough buzz at the tournament that the players would have heard about it, but it's not certain that any particular player was aware of it. It's not even clear that the refs knew about it, since they didn't seem to be enforcing it uniformly.

As for Shane's kerfuffle being in the paper, see above about players reading.
 
Bob Jewett said:
As I've pointed out before, many of the pros have no idea what the actual, printed rules say because they have never read them. Efren was well along in the 2000 US Open when he took a foul (against Dallas West) that showed he was totally ignorant of one rule. I agree that this "must call the 10" rule should have caused enough buzz at the tournament that the players would have heard about it, but it's not certain that any particular player was aware of it. It's not even clear that the refs knew about it, since they didn't seem to be enforcing it uniformly.

As for Shane's kerfuffle being in the paper, see above about players reading.
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The refs obviously had no idea what they were doing for the most part. In the came in question the ref walks down to the end of the table and picks up the cue ball. The 10 was supposed to be spotted and shot from where the cue ball landed I believe.
 
JoeyInCali said:
The rule is so dumb, even the ref didn't know the rule.
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Quite the opposite! The rule was SIMPLE, just they didn't follow the rule or enforce the rule on every occasion, which makes things arguable.

The SIMPLEST rule is to CALL EVERYTHING or CALL NOTHING!
 
Schumck Factor ?

JoeyA said:
Who wants to bet that the next time they have this tournament, this rule will not be in effect?

JoeyA
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Better yet, how it's effected Manny and his future dealings with those representing his Name and his countrymen. I feel Sad for him, supporting his country men and getting ''cold cocked'' from the players he's trying to help. M.P. would never dump, but this ''if true'' is like *hitting in your own back yard.



Samo....samo.
 
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At the very least they should've re-racked and play the rack over again with the original breaker breaking, since the ref so blatantly failed at his job.
 
HawaiianEye said:
Quite the opposite! The rule was SIMPLE, just they didn't follow the rule or enforce the rule on every occasion, which makes things arguable.

The SIMPLEST rule is to CALL EVERYTHING or CALL NOTHING!
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Yes, but the ref didn't know Pulpul STILL HAD TO SHOOT the re-spotted 10-ball.
 
Poolshootindon said:
You drive down a street for 20 years and always make a right turn on a particular street that has a traffic light. For 20 years you were able to make a right turn on red.

Now there's a sign that says "no right turn on red". You have been doing it for so many years it is just natural. You make a right turn on red and a cop pulls you over and issues you a citation.
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I would tell the cop I called the turn.
 
Neil said:
But, you leave out the little fact that these aren't ordinary shooters, they are supposed to be professionals. Thereby, they should have made sure of the rules, and then made sure they followed them. It's really not a hard thing to do. Rules seem to change every tournament they go to, so they should be used to it by now.
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You are ignoring reality. I watched 5 matches and I saw 4 world class players forget to call the 10 ball. Bustamante, Reyes, Morris and Biado. This indicates it was a hard thing to do.

I'm unaware of 10 ball rules changing every tournament - or one pocket, or 9 ball, or 14.1

The only rules which change from tournament to tournament, pool hall to pool and bar to bar are 8 ball rules.
 
I feel bad for Biado because he didn't even get the satisfaction of forfeiting the match midway through by unscrewing his cue, to express his displeasure with the stupid rule :grin-square:
 
I just took a look at the Hohmann/Gomez finals match for the first Manny Pacquiao Cup 10-Ball event, played 3 months ago.

There was no overt (audible or visible) calling of any obvious shots, including the 10-ball..

The referee was, I think, the same man who was the referee for the Van Boening / Alcano match a couple days ago. So he was experienced, though perhaps not with a requirement of explicitly calling all 10-balls.

I wonder why they changed the rules (assuming they did) for the 2nd MP Cup. Did any problem(s) occur last time that they were trying to avoid this time?
 
I have read about half or more of this thread. I think the record has been broken for squeezing NITS into one place. Go join the APA and make your points to the bangers. Maybe they'll let you borrow their bobble-head pocket marker. When you play them for big bucks.
I never did like Pac-Man.
APA member. Yes I filled out the survey.
 
Lonestar_jim said:
I have read about half or more of this thread. I think the record has been broken for squeezing NITS into one place. Go join the APA and make your points to the bangers. Maybe they'll let you borrow their bobble-head pocket marker. When you play them for big bucks.
I never did like Pac-Man.
APA member. Yes I filled out the survey.
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the only thing worse than this stupid so called 'rule'

is the sad people that defend it
 
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