Why the UPA is Stupid

Hey, it works for Fast Larry.

Mike

Umm, where you've been?:confused: You're not a Pro unless you pay $125 membership fee to UPA - United States Professional Pool Player's Association!

It doesn't matter what your skill level is - just pay their fee and you're a pro! :withstupid:

S.
 
Mike, I sawat the begining of this thread that Frank is a Pro Player and I have alsoseenthat on the UPA website he has pictures of himself for sale along with people like Mad Max and Rodney and Ralf. Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe Frank Alverez is a Arizona rated 8, just like me. Anyone wannabuyapic of me :) I will sign it and everything. However I will only pay you $2.00 to take it :) Just thought it was funny.

That's what I was going to add Mark. Frank's dad is a 9 though, so maybe Frank Alvarez Sr. is a pro?

Rodney has moved to Arizona to help start up the UPA Leagues in Phoenix. I know they have some very successful leagues running, and I think a small portion of each player goes towards these events and the pro's.

The $125 fee is crazy. Can someone ask them how many events that gets them? You can't have a league registration fee for 1 event.
 
That's what I was going to add Mark. Frank's dad is a 9 though, so maybe Frank Alvarez Sr. is a pro?

Rodney has moved to Arizona to help start up the UPA Leagues in Phoenix. I know they have some very successful leagues running, and I think a small portion of each player goes towards these events and the pro's.

The $125 fee is crazy. Can someone ask them how many events that gets them? You can't have a league registration fee for 1 event.
I will say this, Alvarez Sr seems to be a stand up guy. I have nothing but good to say about that man. I really only know him by his reputation though. Rodney another hard working guy that is one of the finest players around and trying to make a plan for the future with the leagues and his very tasty drink Extreme Focus. The rest of what I have said I standby.
How u been Stucky?
 
That's what I was going to add Mark. Frank's dad is a 9 though, so maybe Frank Alvarez Sr. is a pro?

Rodney has moved to Arizona to help start up the UPA Leagues in Phoenix. I know they have some very successful leagues running, and I think a small portion of each player goes towards these events and the pro's.

The $125 fee is crazy. Can someone ask them how many events that gets them? You can't have a league registration fee for 1 event.

This UPA league, didn't they rip off someone's (AZ resident) rating system and passed it off as their "innovating" handicap system? And not give a word of credit to the creator?

They're really shady:mad:

S.
 
Try as I might I just do not see interrogating some random dude who says he is there to report on your event and then trying to score free work from him. Believe it or not I do think that the investment in gear and the time and effort it takes to use it is worth something.

The thing is if he would have said "Who are you shooting for? Look we do not have any photographers here could we work a trade for a media pass in exchange for some pictures?" I would have given the guy some quality stuff for nothing out of his pocket. But the whole attitude and interrogation really ticked me off.

What do you expect from someone who doens't even put any real value on the product they attempt to offer?

It's the same crap Don Mackey pulled in the 90's. Trying to be the overlord on a sinking ship instead of going down in the hold and working to plug the holes and get things working the way they should.

The Professional Way:

Hi, my name is Frank Alavarez, president of the UPA, that's some nice gear you have there, are you affiliated with any media? The Action Report? Cool - love your work - we should talk sometime about a UPA tie in? Can I get you a media pass and a cold drink? If you need anything just look me up and thanks again for coming to report on our tournament. Oh and by the way is there any way we can share some of your photos for our website, we will give you and the Action Report full credit of course? Well gotta run, busy busy busy taking care of all these pro players, you know how they are right (wink wink nudge nudge)........

The Uncool Way:

Who are you? Never heard of you? You can't take pictures unless we own them. Got to run, busy busy busy, the pros need me, not that you would know anything about professional pool players.

I too am quite surprised to see that the UPA is still in "business". I am beginning to think that a UPA patch is worth about as much as an APA Break and Run patch.

Wasn't the Predator 10 Ball event that just concluded at the BCA a UPA event? Oh gee I guess not because Frank and Co. decided it's best to attempt to torpedo Mark Griffin's plans to do a Pro Tour that is league funded by attempting to set up their own amateur league instead.

But funnily enough the founder of the UPA, Charlie Williams can stage an event at the BCAPL.

Curiouser and curiouser..........

This would all make interesting reading if anyone actually cared about pool in America.
 
Wasn't the Predator 10 Ball event that just concluded at the BCA a UPA event? Oh gee I guess not because Frank and Co. decided it's best to attempt to torpedo Mark Griffin's plans to do a Pro Tour that is league funded by attempting to set up their own amateur league instead.

But funnily enough the founder of the UPA, Charlie Williams can stage an event at the BCAPL.

Curiouser and curiouser..........

This would all make interesting reading if anyone actually cared about pool in America.

I wouldn't give too much credit to anyone for getting the deal pulled off with BCAPL/ Mark Griffin.

BCA Pro Event later renamed to Generationpool.com or some sort WAS scheduled to be the PRO event at BCAPL but pulled out with only months prior to BCAPL Nationals. Mark Griffin worked it out with DP to bring in Predator 10 Ball ---ONLY because he's committed to give the best to BCAPL members coming to Nationals! It was not something that was planned out, but what would make do at the moment with such a short notice:angry:

S.
 
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JCIN,

That's just priceless,buddy but, what did you expect from "Frank Avarez"?

I mean, this is the guy who as the President of UPA had sectioned the Desert Classic and when the players didn't get paid, he said it was not his or UPA's responsibility to ensure prize fund was there... If I recall my dull memories, wasn't it one of the reason the UPA was formed and all the players stuck together as a Union? That was top reason all the Pro players joined the UPA and followed it loyally? CW promised if they joined the UPA, showed force and unity, he would ensure money was in escrow for all UPA sectioned event. I guess, few years and a President later UPA forgot what their mission was...

Regardless, Mark Griffin stepped in and helped out the players to get paid, when it was not associated to him in any matter. Mark didn't have a single penny coming to him from working it all out, but he did it for the players and couldn't stand the black eye UPA has given this sport!

When it was all done and said, Frank NEVER thanked Mark Griffin for bailing him out.

Mark then approached Frank Avarez about collaborating UPA. Mark wanted to form a Pro Tour using UPA name because it was already familiar name. Well, would you believe Frank said he wanted $600,00.00 for the sale of name? LOL. He then later said he would take $300,000.00 WOW what a bargain, right ? For a damaged name?

Oh, about Frank mumbling "BCA, Mark Griffin ...", if it wasn't for Mark Griffin, he wouldn't had those Diamond Tables in there to put his UPA event on!!!




S.

I'm glad somebody finally brought this up. Chuck Bobbitt was the lead promoter for the Desert Shoot-Out Classic, but he wasn't the only one responsible for its failure. Didn't it become a joint venture when the UPA granted sanctioning? And wasn't that sanctioning supposed to guarantee that the money was in escrow? But where was the UPA when everyone started leveling their guns at Chuck? It was like, "Uh, we don't even know that guy." That wasn't right.

Roger
 
I am beginning to think that a UPA patch is worth about as much as an APA Break and Run patch.
Well, at least you have to break and run to get the APA patch. I am still working on my first break and run, but can pay $125 and become a professional pool player.
 
The thing that really got me was the part where he said I had to give him copies.

Here's what you do.

Tell him "Sure, I'll send you copies". Then politely ask if you can get a couple snaps of him.

Start a "MS Paint/Photoshop this picture" thread with one of them and send him a disc filled will the results. :eek:
 
When we do our exhibitions and pool schools. I see video cameras and regular cameras all the time. I do make my rounds and tell either school students or spectators "I haveno problem with you taping for your personal use but I don't want to see it on Youtube and if I can give you my email can you send me sometoo that I can maybe use for promo stuff?" If they are with Inside English or BD or Inside Pool I ask if I can getthem a better seat and please email me the article.

Not one person has had a problem and niether have we. Its justgood PR as long as it isn't being profited from. Amazing story, How many people were actually there as a spectator when you were there?

Ooops!

I'll bet I'll be hearing from your lawyer shortly. :D
 
Gotta be honest, I'd not heard of the UPA before this thread & after reading it I'm not surprised I hadn't! Damn, just a few manners would've made all the difference.

Tomorrow night is our league's end of season trophy presentation & tournament. Just out of curiosity I'm gonna ask the guys there if they've heard of either the UPA or TAR. I already know how it'll turn out but I'll do it anyway.

JCIN, fair play to you. You handled that well. It really was their loss. Reminds me of a run-in some friends & I had with a promoter years ago in England, guy named Barry Hearn. Another time when manners would've helped.
 
I wouldn't give too much credit to anyone for getting the deal pulled off with BCAPL/ Mark Griffin.

BCA Pro Event later renamed to Generationpool.com or some sort WAS scheduled to be the PRO event at BCAPL but pulled out with 15 days prior to BCAPL Nationals. Mark Griffin worked it out with DP to bring in Predator 10 Ball ---ONLY because he's committed to give the best to BCAPL members coming to Nationals! It was not something that was planned out, but what would make do at the moment with such a short notice:angry:

S.

Here is hoping that next year during the BCAPL, Mark does it all himself and does it the right way.
 
Sunnyday, I wasn't meaning to imply that anyone in particular deserves "credit" for the Predator 10 Ball. I was merely noting the IRONY that it wasn't a UPA event although the founder of the UPA promoted it.

Personally I think that Mark should completely abandon all sorts of cooperation with other promoters and associations.

I think that IF he breaks those ties and dynamites those bridges that he can build something FAR FAR better.

In a few years those other acronyms won't even be a memory.
 
Pro pool.........

I have some pics but they will never see the light of day and no updates from me. I can be a stubborn bastard when I get mad so I will just do something else with my time. Not like I don't have hundreds of hours of video to edit.

Hopefully someone will post information for those following their favorite players or friends. It just won't be me.

Is anyone really surprised? I'm not. It's just another case of a PRO POOL organization, going down the wrong path. If you're going to run an organization, especially one that has trouble drawing enough spectators to pay the girl selling tickets at the door, be nice to ALL of them. First step, when he walked up to you he should maybe ask, "may I ask if you're with some type of magazine, or news agency?" After your reply, maybe come back with, "take all the pictures you'd like, but please make sure you have the flash turned off." No matter who you're with, they should welcome every single person, and make them feel like they want to come back to support the events.

In 1985, I went to Starchers Billiards in Akron, Ohio. Joe Kerr was the promoter and director of the tourney. I had been to several of the events he ran in Dayton and other places as a spectator. This was the first event I had played though. When I signed in, he made it a point to shake my hand and welcome me.
The whole point is, maybe Frank should help work the door. Welcome the players, and the spectators. And try to make them feel like they want to come back again. And $25 a day, for that small of a field, is rediculous.
 
The whole point is, maybe Frank should help work the door. Welcome the players, and the spectators. And try to make them feel like they want to come back again. And $25 a day, for that small of a field, is rediculous.

That is a great idea, but he would need the people skills to be able to be able to pull that off. Don't hold your breath.

I have a big problem with what happened to Justin, and I'll explain why.

Nobody has done more for the game of pool in the past several years than Chad and Justin. They have spent money (out of pocket) and have traveled the globe to promote the game of pool. They have a passion for what they do. They have a passion for bringing what they do to the fans. They are accessible to the public, and they address issues publicly and take responsibility when things don't go smoothly. They understand that their public relations go hand in hand with their credibility.

On the other hand, we have Frank Alvarez, President of the UPA. In the past 3 years, I have watched him lead the industry in one area: Poor Public Relations.

I am reminded of a phone conversation that I had with Frank amidst the cloud of dust that was formed by the collapse of the IPT. The UPA crawled out of the ashes of the post-IPT era with Frank at the helm. Frank had asked me to help draw interest and support for the UPA within the internet forums. I took half-assed approach to doing so because he seemed a bit hesitant to allocate any authority to anybody else in any area of the UPA's operations. I saw that as a red flag.

When you have that problem within an organization, brace yourself for a sudden impact. That sudden impact occurred in Phoenix last year. I had more than one conversation with Mark (bfdlad) about how bad that was going to turn out. Next week I get to finally buy him a beer to celebrate the fact that we called that one months in advance.

Public relations is just as important as filling the flow chart. It cannot be a side issue. When you see people that can assist you in growing your tour - or people that have outstanding public appeal such as TAR, it pays to know how to network when those opportunities arise to help grow the sport. What Frank did in that situation creates more separation. Whether that is by design or by accident or by his own stupidity remains a mystery.

I don't know if Frank is trying to give off the impression that UPA is worth more than it is, or what the game plan is here - but this was a really bad move on Frank's part.

I know Frank reads the forums. He views the internet as (and this is a direct quote) "something that we cannot control". Frank, if you read this I will take you back to a conversation you and I had 4 years ago. I told you that the internet is a tool that can be used to promote the game of pool. The more you integrate yourself with the internet community, the more people will know about you and the way you do things and why. Look at how Mike Howerton promotes the game of pool through Azbilliards.com and take notes. I suggested that you should make friends and establish contacts and relationships in an attempt to create a solid foundation and trust with the public and the industry.

I also told you that if you pushed the public away, there may come a day when they will never come back.

I think that day may have come.

It's sad because you have a lot of energy and some really great ideas, but your delivery really sucks. Sorry, but those were the nicest words I could find.
:shrug:
 
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Funny little story.....

The room where I used to play here in PA, and work in for a short time years ago, was the breeding ground for the UPA. I kinda got friendly with the new owners from Chicago I think? Steve (last name?) and Cindy Lee (Cindy is a real nice person BTW), but didn't know them well.

On many occasions I "overheard" them speaking about a new tour with Charlie and Mika when they visited the room, but I got the feeling Mika was not a biz partner.

They were planning a new Pro tour, but I thought it was just in the North east at the time. Any time I asked about it I got the cold shoulder. Silly me had a thought about helping out. At that time I worked in 2 different rooms, and had my finger on the pulse of the pool scene up here. Maybe it was a good thing I didn't get involved. :)

I never have thought about it until reading this thread, but at the time they all seemed like nice enough people. At the end of their ownership of the room things got nasty, but by that time I was playing elsewhere (my basement :D )

No ground breaking info here, but it just made me chuckle to remember back then and to see where things are today.

G.
 
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