Alleged padding of B&R's in the UPL tourney?? WTF?

[Majic]

A few players thought something was going on but just like here no one seemed to be able to actually prove anything which is why I did not bring it up on the stream. If I could have proved anyone was cheating you can bet your ass I would have been talking about it non stop. I couldn't so I saw no need to get everyone stirred up and talking about something no one could prove that would be nothing but negative.

If I could prove anything I would be right here talking about it. I was there for most of the discussions and no one could make the case to DQ someone well enough to do it so I am curious how some here claim to be able to. If you can then do it.

I don't think anyone out here can prove anything and I certainly am not going to make accusations of cheating. The accusations are serious enough to ruin somebody's rep. With that being said, I found it disturbing that a Pro would make those accusations on the stream without backing it up in some way. I hope it all shakes out and that Corey moves forward with additional tournaments in the future. Pool needs more exposure, but in a positive way!!! What TAR is doing for pool can only make it better for all.

 

[stevea]

I was only there on Wednesday so I don't know the facts and can't name names but someone on here threw out two names earlier and I think both of them were in the voting for the Mosconi Cup to represent the USA, if they really did cheat then I for one am glad they did not get voted in (but no one knows for sure so it is what it is).

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Corey Deuel, pool needs you to stand up

JCIN, is the chat dialogue saved? How about the audio? Corey, how @ the scoresheets?

Look at the evidence and the trail. It's a mountain. I never left the comfort of my computer and watched only segments of the stream and this is what I come up with:

1) You have at least 2 pros on audio of the stream that discussed this

2) you have people that posted in chat that stated they either watched the match in question or know people that did and 10 B&R's was out of the question.

3) you have a person in chat that saw the marked up card

4) you have a turned in card that shows 10 B&R's in 15 racks, when the avg match was perhaps 3 B&R's. IIRC, these 2 players were #1 and 2 in B&R's after that match. Coincidence?

5) read post #89 in this thread: Uwate: "...Privately, every player in the event I spoke to detailed to me that there was cheating and it was disgustingly blatant...." Donny Mills: "This is spot on." These 2 people were there and know a thing or two @ pool. For me, they carry a lot of weight. If they don't with you, then I ask you to impune them or their recorded testimony.

6) you have 2 players at the center of the storm. One is a competing promoter with bad blood with Corey, and the other player is tight and reaps the buddy benefits of that promoting company. Another coincidence? Maybe this "endeavor" was hatched and executed with a larger goal than to simply advance in the tournamanet. Hey, I'm just raising the question. Flame me if you want, for saying what others can't or won't, but many are thinking.

7) You had @ 60-70 players there that are all potential witnesses to the alleged theft. Surely some will step forward if they believe someone will step up with them.


Corey Deuel, I'm begging you, pool is begging you, if you are not further pursuing this investigation, please re-open this case!!! There's plenty of trail to investigate. It was your tournament, it was your format that was flawed, it's your tour stop that's getting the black eye, your prime suspect is a competing entity that may be strong arming you and you are most responsible to lead. I can't do your math and assess your risk, but I'd think the upside could be immeasurable for you and all of pool if you stood up.


If it doesn't work out, you could always take up golfing.

Or, we can continue with status quo and sweep the plays from the playbook under the rug and ensure there's enough gas in their tainted tanks to get home this week. Barely. Again.


FELLOW POSTERS, PLEASE JOIN ME IN PLEADING FOR COREY TO DIG IN!!! WE'RE ASKING HIM A BIG ONE AND MAYBE HE NEEDS TO KNOW THE POOL WORLD IS BEHIND HIS CAUSE. CONTACT COREY, PUBLICLY OR PRIVATELY. STAND UP, POST UP, BE COUNTED.

On UPL's web site, I could not find a phone #, email or mailing address. If you know it, please post it.

Hopefully I stand in the majority, but if I'm a lemming or a fool, at least I'm trying to improve the sport.

Thanks,

Matt Thompson
Greensboro, NC

 

[TimKrazyMon]

This thread is proof that if something is worth having, it's worth abusing.

 

[ShootingArts]

6) you have 2 players at the center of the storm. One is a competing promoter with bad blood with Corey, and the other player is tight and reaps the buddy benefits of that promoting company. Another coincidence? Maybe this "endeavor" was hatched and executed with a larger goal than to simply advance in the tournamanet. Hey, I'm just raising the question. Flame me if you want, for saying what others can't or won't, but many are thinking.

Matt Thompson
Greensboro, NC

Matt,

You are just posting what others are thinking. The two players supposedly involved aren't desperate for money nor are they stupid. If the allegations of blatant score sheet fixing are true it looks more like an attack on Corey's new enterprise than an attempt to make a few bucks.

Hu

 

[DeadPoked]

First you have several typo's but even after the typo's are ignored you say that the victims aren't a reasonable person. Interesting take for someone involved in law enforcement. I've seen that viewpoint a time or two but only when the LEO wanted to sweep something under the rug. Vandals cut down a fair sized pecan tree of mine. Despite the fact it was sawn down and the stump and next piece would be a perfect match if put together I was told there was no way to prove it was my pecan tree cut down and laying on someone else's property. Several thousand dollars of value gone and I couldn't do a damned thing because the LEO and his superior wanted to play games. This moron with two years experience was the trainer for the rookies on the force!

This deal at the tournament is a case where it may be a swan. However if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck the odds are pretty damned good that it is a duck! Too many people that were there that can't weigh in publicly because of the effect it could have on future income have weighed in privately. I now say the thing is a duck and should be going in the gumbo. The conflict of a promoter being involved and the fact that all pro players have to scrape for every crumb they can get means this one gets swept under the rug. Welcome to the real world of pool. Nothing matters except who controls the dollars.

Hu

I'm curious, are your reputation points directly proportional to how much of a ***** you can be on this forum? I'm thinking some people think so.

 

[greyghost]

JCIN, is the chat dialogue saved? How about the audio? Corey, how @ the scoresheets?

Look at the evidence and the trail. It's a mountain. I never left the comfort of my computer and watched only segments of the stream and this is what I come up with:

1) You have at least 2 pros on audio of the stream that discussed this

2) you have people that posted in chat that stated they either watched the match in question or know people that did and 10 B&R's was out of the question.

3) you have a person in chat that saw the marked up card

4) you have a turned in card that shows 10 B&R's in 15 racks, when the avg match was perhaps 3 B&R's. IIRC, these 2 players were #1 and 2 in B&R's after that match. Coincidence?

5) read post #89 in this thread: Uwate: "...Privately, every player in the event I spoke to detailed to me that there was cheating and it was disgustingly blatant...." Donny Mills: "This is spot on." These 2 people were there and know a thing or two @ pool. For me, they carry a lot of weight. If they don't with you, then I ask you to impune them or their recorded testimony.

6) you have 2 players at the center of the storm. One is a competing promoter with bad blood with Corey, and the other player is tight and reaps the buddy benefits of that promoting company. Another coincidence? Maybe this "endeavor" was hatched and executed with a larger goal than to simply advance in the tournamanet. Hey, I'm just raising the question. Flame me if you want, for saying what others can't or won't, but many are thinking.

7) You had @ 60-70 players there that are all potential witnesses to the alleged theft. Surely some will step forward if they believe someone will step up with them.


Corey Deuel, I'm begging you, pool is begging you, if you are not further pursuing this investigation, please re-open this case!!! There's plenty of trail to investigate. It was your tournament, it was your format that was flawed, it's your tour stop that's getting the black eye, your prime suspect is a competing entity that may be strong arming you and you are most responsible to lead. I can't do your math and assess your risk, but I'd think the upside could be immeasurable for you and all of pool if you stood up.


If it doesn't work out, you could always take up golfing.

Or, we can continue with status quo and sweep the plays from the playbook under the rug and ensure there's enough gas in their tainted tanks to get home this week. Barely. Again.


FELLOW POSTERS, PLEASE JOIN ME IN PLEADING FOR COREY TO DIG IN!!! WE'RE ASKING HIM A BIG ONE AND MAYBE HE NEEDS TO KNOW THE POOL WORLD IS BEHIND HIS CAUSE. CONTACT COREY, PUBLICLY OR PRIVATELY. STAND UP, POST UP, BE COUNTED.

On UPL's web site, I could not find a phone #, email or mailing address. If you know it, please post it.

Hopefully I stand in the majority, but if I'm a lemming or a fool, at least I'm trying to improve the sport.

Thanks,

Matt Thompson
Greensboro, NC

You sir are no fool nor a lemming....COME ON COREY DON'T BE A FLAKE.....YOU SAY YOUR THE PRINCE OF POOL....DON'T TAKE OFF YOUR CROWN NOW BROTHER...YOU OWE IT TO THE BILLIARDS WORLD AND ITS PEOPLE AS A WHOLE TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS AND RESOLVE IT PROPERLY, ALL OF US HERE WILL STAND BY YOU IN THE EFFORT TO RESOLVE THIS, DO NOT BE INDEFFERIENT AND LET IT GO, IT WOULD BE A HORRIBLE DISSERVICE.

regards,
Grey Ghost

 

[APA Gene]

Matt,

You are just posting what others are thinking. The two players supposedly involved aren't desperate for money nor are they stupid. If the allegations of blatant score sheet fixing are true it looks more like an attack on Corey's new enterprise than an attempt to make a few bucks.

Hu

Or perhaps it was an attempt to generate more publicity? Remember any news is good news in some respects.

 

[The Saw]

View attachment 117140

I'm trying to "handle" the truth. Apparently it's my turn to play the dirty little shades of gray pool game and see where MY comfort level lies within that scale. I'm sure you've long since handled the truth, as has anyone that's spent enough time in this game.

(No disrespect meant in the least SAW, I know you've been in this game for many moons and you've shared a lot of good things here on AZ.)

Damn, that is pretty cryptic right there.... LOL Maybe you should change the name to KrypticKoolKat. :grin:

I know a lot of stuff that if I were to put it out on here most people wouldn't believe. Some of it I would love to put out there, some not. Why not put it out there you ask? Because I love the game and want to see it prosper. Putting it out there would damage the game and it's better that people that know stuff like me, Watchez, and others keep it off the net away from the general pool public. Pool needs fans to grow and the more good players there are, the more potential fans they can create whether they are what I know to be a scumbag or not..... They are harmless to your everday general public pool fan and are only a danger to the action crowd where they can put bite on your bankroll. Now before everyone starts thinking all pool players are scumbags, read this: Most are great people... The scumbags are the minority and is akin to one bad apple spoils the whole damn bunch.

The dump artists are the ones that really should be outed so that they would be banished to a pool life of only playing tournaments. The dump artist dumps because it's easy, guaranteed money and taking the action out of their game and making them rely on tournament winnings would be like sending them to prison/hell. But there actions only damage a minority of people (backers, side betters, etc...) so it's best to just kep the trap shut and spread the word to others in action circles privately. I have been asked to dump or catch a dump several times but my name and my money has always been as good as gold and I want it to stay that way. But as much as it makes me cringe when someone offers it, I also find comfort in knowing the person does bad business....

Does that provide a little clarity?

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

You sir are no fool nor a lemming....COME ON COREY DON'T BE A FLAKE.....YOU SAY YOUR THE PRINCE OF POOL....DON'T TAKE OFF YOUR CROWN NOW BROTHER...YOU OWE IT TO THE BILLIARDS WORLD AND ITS PEOPLE AS A WHOLE TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS AND RESOLVE IT PROPERLY, ALL OF US HERE WILL STAND BY YOU IN THE EFFORT TO RESOLVE THIS, DO NOT BE INDEFFERIENT AND LET IT GO, IT WOULD BE A HORRIBLE DISSERVICE.

regards,
Grey Ghost

Thanks GG.

Anyone have an email address for Corey?

Please show your support for pool and Corey. All signs point to him and pool getting the royal shaft here.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Thanks SAW. Let me ask you, what would you recommend to Corey on this?

I got a lot of respect for you SAW. Thanks for the post. Let me speak from my standpoint.

Me, I aspire to play better, and perhaps someday play with the bigs. Looking at this score-gate, I am possibly going to say F it. As an entrepreneur, I see the biz, and I know crap like this damages the business. Whjat brand wants to associate with this? As a potential investor, I am possibly going to say F it.

I am Joe Consumer, Grade AA numero uno target demographic for pool halls, ancillary sales, tournaments, etc, etc. Crap like this is pushing me away and you know it's been pushing Joe Grade AA's for some time. I'm the point man. The consumers always are.

This incident is representative of the cancer that reaches into far more pockets than avid betters. It affects everyone associated with pool, in some way or another.

Watch the dollars slip through your finger tips because the gray players protect their little piece of tainted cheese and people in position turn the other way.

Damn, that is pretty cryptic right there.... LOL Maybe you should change the name to KrypticKoolKat. :grin:

I know a lot of stuff that if I were to put it out on here most people wouldn't believe. Some of it I would love to put out there, some not. Why not put it out there you ask? Because I love the game and want to see it prosper. Putting it out there would damage the game and it's better that people that know stuff like me, Watchez, and others keep it off the net away from the general pool public. Pool needs fans to grow and the more good players there are, the more potential fans they can create whether they are what I know to be a scumbag or not..... They are harmless to your everday general public pool fan and are only a danger to the action crowd where they can put bite on your bankroll. Now before everyone starts thinking all pool players are scumbags, read this: Most are great people... The scumbags are the minority and is akin to one bad apple spoils the whole damn bunch.

The dump artists are the ones that really should be outed so that they would be banished to a pool life of only playing tournaments. The dump artist dumps because it's easy, guaranteed money and taking the action out of their game and making them rely on tournament winnings would be like sending them to prison/hell. But there actions only damage a minority of people (backers, side betters, etc...) so it's best to just kep the trap shut and spread the word to others in action circles privately. I have been asked to dump or catch a dump several times but my name and my money has always been as good as gold and I want it to stay that way. But as much as it makes me cringe when someone offers it, I also find comfort in knowing the person does bad business....

Does that provide a little clarity?

 

[The Saw]

your prime suspect is a competing entity that may be strong arming you and you are most responsible to lead.

The funny thing to me is that I checked the UPL site for standings before the whole B&R/scoresheet thing broke here on AZ and it stuck me as odd that CW was leading, or was tied for the lead (can't remember which) in B&R's... Not that CW isn't capable of B&R out but he is more of a defensive/methodical player, not a run out machine..... It all made sense later in the day when I checked here. And don't think for minute that CW wouldn't do it just for spite to tarnish Coreys tournament for their past run in's.....

 

[The Saw]

Let me ask you, what would you recommend to Corey on this?

IMO, there really isn't much he can do without hard evidence... Is there enough evidence for the DA to get an endictment? It's all hearsay and circumstantial evidence... Most of us know it happened but it seems that there is no one to definitively prove it. It's the first run for the format and Corey needs to massage the system to prevent it from happening in future ones. An idea I have would be to assign a player that or official to each table to keep score for the players in each match. IMO, the B&R component in the scoring is a really good idea because it promotes exciting play which is what pool needs most.

Don't let stuff like this deter you from the game... You have it in any sport. Baseball, basketball, football, etc.... Points shaving, steriods, low blows, drugs, etc....

 

[ShootingArts]

Can't be true

I'm curious, are your reputation points directly proportional to how much of a ***** you can be on this forum? I'm thinking some people think so.

That can't be true or you would be number one in rep!

Hu

 

[watchez]

Matt,

You are just posting what others are thinking. The two players supposedly involved aren't desperate for money nor are they stupid. If the allegations of blatant score sheet fixing are true it looks more like an attack on Corey's new enterprise than an attempt to make a few bucks.

Hu

This statement shows that you don't have a clue. I know several big bankroll players that wouldn't think twice.
Again - MANY players that are exalted on this site over and over again would make the list.

This is not a comment on the two players mentioned because I was not there nor have I talked to anyone there.

 

[TimKrazyMon]

Desperate for $$$$? Stupid??? Since when do those conditions need to be satisfied to cheat people out of dollars. I believe that most cheats have plenty of money and are quite intelligent, which is why they get away with it.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I just got back from Tampa and was there at the Innisbrook resort. The mood there among the pro players was not good. Privately, every player in the event I spoke to detailed to me that there was cheating and it was disgustingly blatant. The main issue being discussed was the 10 break and runs that were marked on the score sheet, six by one party , 4 by another. Up until that point most matches had just a few break and runs per match so this number stood out as statistically improbable.

Two spectators I spoke too watched good parts of that match. One told me that he saw the front end of the match and there was no break and runs a and instead he saw players missing. He went to eat after about a third of match was done. The other said he saw the back end of the match and saw a few break and runs but he also saw players hanging up the 10 and 9s.
...snip

Uwate, or anyone else: Can you ask these aforementioned spectators or pros to go on the record? Someone posted that the investigation did not yield satisfactory evidence that {sic} would be actionable. And maybe that's the case, but why are many not convinced there's other conflicting forces at work here? Does reality dictate that we need varying levels of evidence?

Level 1: it happened, they're guilty and it's actionable.
Level 2: any objective, reasonable informed person knows it happened, but in the absence of a smoking gun, 3d color surveillance and a signed confession, there's too many consequences for me, my business and my circle to make it actionable.

Uwate also states:

"Nothing is actually proven but in the minds of all the players who were there at the event, there was no question in their minds as to what happened."

Seems the trail was smoking hot enough for the players to come to a "reasonable and prudent" conclusion.

This is probably not going anywhere this time and maybe I'm going overboard and am making enemies. But hopefully there's more awareness and maybe someday, people will be more inclined to step up when someone puts the shaft to pool.

 

[JCIN]

You sir are no fool nor a lemming....COME ON COREY DON'T BE A FLAKE.....YOU SAY YOUR THE PRINCE OF POOL....DON'T TAKE OFF YOUR CROWN NOW BROTHER...YOU OWE IT TO THE BILLIARDS WORLD AND ITS PEOPLE AS A WHOLE TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS AND RESOLVE IT PROPERLY, ALL OF US HERE WILL STAND BY YOU IN THE EFFORT TO RESOLVE THIS, DO NOT BE INDEFFERIENT AND LET IT GO, IT WOULD BE A HORRIBLE DISSERVICE.

regards,
Grey Ghost

What on earth makes you guys think Corey didnt already do all he could do and was not able to prove anything ? I WAS THERE and watched him and John DiToro do the best they could to get to the bottom of it and IMO they absolutely did the right thing in the end.

Why would he come here to justify his actions to people who have no material interest in the outcome? Where are all the players who were directly effected standing up and saying people cheated ? They were the ones who lost money if it is the case. If I truly believed in my heart someone screwed me out of money by cheating in a tournament I would stand up and say something. That is yet to happen in this case.

Anyone who sits in the background mumbling "There was cheating" but won't stand up, state their name and prove it are as much a cancer on the game as someone who does cheat.

One example that people have nowhere near the information needed to make a rational judgement is this: Does anyone know how many B&R's Charlie had in the next round with people watching him ?

What about the pro who watched the first part of the match in question and the very first thing he said to me when I walked in before all this was brought up was "Dude you should have seen Charlie he was breaking like a monster."

Screw it. In the interest of satiating the undying fervor of a few here you go:


There were three written statements from people in the crowd saying what they saw in the match. Two were unsigned and looked like they were written by 6th graders one was signed by "Sgt. Muhammed Ali". None were complete narratives from beginning to end and all mentioned seeing multiple run outs but in no context of when in the match they were.

No one to my knowledge could locate the "witnesses" when the discussions about the match were taking place. I do not know who got the statements from them I only saw the three pieces of paper with the statements on them.

One pro called Charlie and told him about people questioning the numbers and that they were going to look at the tape. The pro told me that Charlie's words were "Good. Just tell them to watch it and they will see." There was no tape as I had decided to miss the first round of the day so I could sleep. I was beat from the set up and first day and decided to sleep seven hours instead of five. Whether Charlie knew the tape wasn't running or not I don't know because I wasn't there but they were playing on the streaming table.

One player in the event said he watched the last two games but didnt see any B&R's and one was marked for the second to last game on the score card. This is the biggest red flag to me but I find it difficult to place a lot of weight on the statement of someone who has something to gain by having two people ahead of him in the standings removed. I do not know this player and so I can't place any weight on his version one way or the other but the situation remains the same he would gain if people in front him were removed.

There were four eraser marks on the score sheet where something had been marked then changed. Which in itself does not mean much to me because everyone was having problems keeping stuff straight from what I was able to see. Including the TD and Corey. Several times they had to go back and redo something because they put a number in the wrong place in the spreadsheet. For the last round the spreadsheet program died and they had to borrow my phone to use as a calculator and do the computations by hand. Things were getting screwed up all over the place by everyone.

Corey WANTED to find something to make an example if he could prove someone was screwing with his event. He could not find direct proof. He asked the players to replay the match because of the screwed up scorecard and they refused. (As I would if I just had a great match legitimately) Players were grumbling and Corey felt he had to do something to appease them even though there was not enough evidence for him to DQ the players. He made what was in my mind a bad decision to have the players vote on what to do by blind ballot. IMO he did this because he wanted an out with players so he could say "You voted on it" instead of taking all the heat for the decision.

Johnny Archer came in and saw what was going on (basically a vote to expel two players by people who did not witness the facts) and put a stop to it and was 100% right IMO. His take was that no way could people who did not see the match and would gain by having two leaders removed vote on the outcome. He was absolutely right. Frankly at this point it had turned into a circus.

John DiToro basically made the final decision with a great deal of logic. The "witness" statements were basically a joke that made no sense when read independently or together and the only thing they had in common was people seeing lots of run outs. The score sheet was screwed up but so were a lot of other things. Nothing added up to enough to kick out two players so they did not.

That is what I witnessed on site. Now if someone can get enough out of that to kick out two players, label them cheaters, ruin their reputation as competitors and impact their livelyhood then I do not want them sitting in judgment of me if I am ever accused of anything.

After it was all over and the next round was almost over I walked by Corey and he said "I guess Charlie is going to win the tournament...he is working on five Break and Runs now in this round." What he didint say but I knew he meant was Charlie was on working five with a lot of eyeballs on him.

I asked Rodney later what his take on the whole deal was. He said (this is best I recall and not a verbatim quote) "It's a shame they picked my match to talk about something being funny. This format I knew it would happen. They just picked me." He wasn't mad or pissed just like he kind of expected things to get screwed up and he was the one who got caught in the crossfire. he was not too pissed at least when I spoke to him because I dont think anyone actually called him a cheater face to face it was more of an innuendo thing. He was relaxed during the whole thing and was in the room when people were talking about it.

That is what I saw. That is what I base my judgment on. If someone can come here and prove to me that I was mistaken I will listen.

I am not saying nothing happened. I am saying no one proved something happened to the standard I require.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Thanks for sharing that JCIN. In the absence of better witness accounts, it does not appear actionable, regardless of strong opinion, heresay, improbability, and coincidences.

Seems Johnny carries a lot of weight!

What on earth makes you guys think Corey didnt already do all he could do and was not able to prove anything ? I WAS THERE and watched him and John DiToro do the best they could to get to the bottom of it and IMO they absolutely did the right thing in the end.

Why would he come here to justify his actions to people who have no material interest in the outcome? Where are all the players who were directly effected standing up and saying people cheated ? They were the ones who lost money if it is the case. If I truly believed in my heart someone screwed me out of money by cheating in a tournament I would stand up and say something. That is yet to happen in this case.

Anyone who sits in the background mumbling "There was cheating" but won't stand up, state their name and prove it are as much a cancer on the game as someone who does cheat.

One example that people have nowhere near the information needed to make a rational judgement is this: Does anyone know how many B&R's Charlie had in the next round with people watching him ?

What about the pro who watched the first part of the match in question and the very first thing he said to me when I walked in before all this was brought up was "Dude you should have seen Charlie he was breaking like a monster."

Screw it. In the interest of satiating the undying fervor of a few here you go:


There were three written statements from people in the crowd saying what they saw in the match. Two were unsigned and looked like they were written by 6th graders one was signed by "Sgt. Muhammed Ali". None were complete narratives from beginning to end and all mentioned seeing multiple run outs but in no context of when in the match they were.

No one to my knowledge could locate the "witnesses" when the discussions about the match were taking place. I do not know who got the statements from them I only saw the three pieces of paper with the statements on them.

One pro called Charlie and told him about people questioning the numbers and that they were going to look at the tape. The pro told me that Charlie's words were "Good. Just tell them to watch it and they will see." There was no tape as I had decided to miss the first round of the day so I could sleep. I was beat from the set up and first day and decided to sleep seven hours instead of five. Whether Charlie knew the tape wasn't running or not I don't know because I wasn't there but they were playing on the streaming table.

One player in the event said he watched the last two games but didnt see any B&R's and one was marked for the second to last game on the score card. This is the biggest red flag to me but I find it difficult to place a lot of weight on the statement of someone who has something to gain by having two people ahead of him in the standings removed. I do not know this player and so I can't place any weight on his version one way or the other but the situation remains the same he would gain if people in front him were removed.

There were four eraser marks on the score sheet where something had been marked then changed. Which in itself does not mean much to me because everyone was having problems keeping stuff straight from what I was able to see. Including the TD and Corey. Several times they had to go back and redo something because they put a number in the wrong place in the spreadsheet. For the last round the spreadsheet program died and they had to borrow my phone to use as a calculator and do the computations by hand. Things were getting screwed up all over the place by everyone.

Corey WANTED to find something to make an example if he could prove someone was screwing with his event. He could not find direct proof. He asked the players to replay the match because of the screwed up scorecard and they refused. (As I would if I just had a great match legitimately) Players were grumbling and Corey felt he had to do something to appease them even though there was not enough evidence for him to DQ the players. He made what was in my mind a bad decision to have the players vote on what to do by blind ballot. IMO he did this because he wanted an out with players so he could say "You voted on it" instead of taking all the heat for the decision.

Johnny Archer came in and saw what was going on (basically a vote to expel two players by people who did not witness the facts) and put a stop to it and was 100% right IMO. His take was that no way could people who did not see the match and would gain by having two leaders removed vote on the outcome. He was absolutely right. Frankly at this point it had turned into a circus.

John DiToro basically made the final decision with a great deal of logic. The "witness" statements were basically a joke that made no sense when read independently or together and the only thing they had in common was people seeing lots of run outs. The score sheet was screwed up but so were a lot of other things. Nothing added up to enough to kick out two players so they did not.

That is what I witnessed on site. Now if someone can get enough out of that to kick out two players, label them cheaters, ruin their reputation as competitors and impact their livelyhood then I do not want them sitting in judgment of me if I am ever accused of anything.

After it was all over and the next round was almost over I walked by Corey and he said "I guess Charlie is going to win the tournament...he is working on five Break and Runs now in this round." What he didint say but I knew he meant was Charlie was on working five with a lot of eyeballs on him.

I asked Rodney later what his take on the whole deal was. He said (this is best I recall and not a verbatim quote) "It's a shame they picked my match to talk about something being funny. This format I knew it would happen. They just picked me." He wasn't mad or pissed just like he kind of expected things to get screwed up and he was the one who got caught in the crossfire. he was not too pissed at least when I spoke to him because I dont think anyone actually called him a cheater face to face it was more of an innuendo thing. He was relaxed during the whole thing and was in the room when people were talking about it.

That is what I saw. That is what I base my judgment on. If someone can come here and prove to me that I was mistaken I will listen.

I am not saying nothing happened. I am saying no one proved something happened to the standard I require.

 

[stevea]

so it sounds like next time they really need real score keepers and/or more cameras. Also I would have really liked to see a scoring thing on the wall behind the players or some where so that after each game the players update it so the crowd can see the scores at all times. The people watching at the event had no idea of any scores at all or what game they were on, so it would have been kinda hard to keep track of what games had B&R's when we didn't know if it was game 4 or game 12.