Why the UPA is Stupid

Danny Harriman said:
That is correct, as a matter of fact the tournament that I could not get paid in was sanctioned by the upa (which makes them somewhat responsable.) Personally I think Frank had it out for me, what is weird is he had some of the board members ask me for this $100.00 yearly fee and I explained my situation to them but they also were hypnotized into Franki's way of thinking. Since then one of the ex board members ( I won't mention any names) has apolagized explaining that he was unaware that I was owed that $. I did explain to him at the time the situation however I think Frank probably warned him that I was not too excited about paying my fee and I he was kind of under Frank's spell, I would imagine Frank left out the part about me being owed $2000.00 from the a upa sanctioned event to this particular ex board member who is also a great player in his own right and a fine gentleman of the game.

I have never forfeited a match in my life on purpose but I could not take anymore of Frank's harrasment and at my last and final upa event Frank got up in my face maybe about an inch from my nose and insisted that I pay his petty one hundred dollar membership fee, it was at this tournament that I had won the year before that I did forfeit my match and have not played a upa event since. It is a shame that the upa is even allowed to advertise here on az, I do understand about yearly fee's but I was struggling to make it from tourmament to "" and then I had to deal with Frank also. Please understand I was not seeking attention for myself or anything like that I just never dreamed that Frank would not take the $100.00 dollar entry fee off the $2000.00 the upa owed me. The upa should not be allowed to hold any tournaments or sell any franchise junk if they cannot pay the players what they are owed (while harrasing them for some stupid fee and Frank said if u don't pay your fee I won't let u play, Frank's inability to be more understanding and take the fee off the $2000.00 I was still owed is more than being a poor businessman.) Frank was stubborn and said that if I wanted to continue to play on the upa I would have to cough up the $100.00 membership fee regaurdless of the $2000.00 that Brady and the upa ie. Shame on u Frank i never did anything to u, I will never understand your position on this one at all.

I think he may be some sort of control freak and I assure you that is not too far off from the truth, I only wish Frank would have worked with me on the 100.00 dollar fee. Ohh well no big deal but it is amazing how much some people enjoy the thrill of being the boss instead of working things out in a ordrely fashion. I am currently still owed $ from the upa, and again I am not seeking any attention from this - and I do not wish to discuss this any more just simply stating my past business dealings with Frank. Thanks for reading and sorry it was so long about neg. stuff but this is the way it went down. I will be happy to discuss this issue with any upa board members as it is their franchise that I am being so critical towards, I don't think Frank wants to discuss this as Blackjack and others have tried to help me on this and have learned more about Frank as a person.

Sincereley, Danny Harriman
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Just wow. Good luck Danny.
 
pooltchr said:
They probably couldn't find anyone else to take the job! I think Frank has been it for quite a few years. Of course, the UPA does offer one big thing to the players. If you pay your dues every year, you are officially a pro. No matter who you are!

Steve
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At this point in the game, that is all it should take!!
 
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JCIN said:
I am a little pissed right now so let me preface this by saying this post is strictly my opinion and has nothing to do with TAR. That said, check this crap out.

I am all pumped up to go to the UPA event here in Vegas to hang out and watch some of my friends play, take photos and I was planning on texting some match updates. I get to the "arena" and ask the lady at the door how much. It is $10 for the 10am-4pm session $15 for the late session. $25 a day seems a little high but oh well. I ask how much for the whole event. She says $60, so I say "Ok, I will do that." Then she asks if I am an ACS member to which I reply honestly "No." She then informs me it will be $75 for the whole thing.

I'm sorry but $75 to watch a 31 man field with only 1 or 2 of the top ten players is just nuts. So I calm my inner nit and just pay $10 for the morning session figuring I will shoot some pics and see how the event goes.

I get into the "arena" and I am carrying my camera gear in a backpack. I set the back pack on a chair out of the way and start to put my kit together. A lady in a referee shirt comes up and says "Are you involved with this event?". I was a little weirded out by the question and wanted to respond "Not if you paid me." But I just asked her what she meant. She replies "Are you a player in the event?" I say "No." She then proceeds to tell me that you have to pay to be able to watch this tournament at which time I raise my right arm and put the little paper wristband right at her eye level.

She says she is sorry she didn't see the wristband and that not only is she the only referee for this professional event this session she has to watch the door too in order to make sure no one gets in without paying. I tell her "No worries." and go about my business.

I get my stuff put together and go sit down in the stands away from everyone else and take some photos of Josh Ulrich and John Morra playing their matches. John finishes his and comes over, sits down and we talk about the event. As we are doing this I am shooting pictures.

Frank Alverez enters the "Arena" and makes a bee line straight toward me. At this point I say to myself "Self, this is gonna get weird." I was right.

Frank: "I am Frank Alverez President of the UPA. Who are you shooting pictures for?"

Me: "Just for myself really."

Frank: "Who are you with? What media?"

Me: "The Action Report"

Frank: "The Action Report? Whats that?"

Me: "You have never heard of The Action Report? Really?"

Frank: "Well yes but I don't know who you are affiliated with"

Me: "Uhhhhh....what do you mean?"

Frank: At this point he mumbled something about BCA or...I am not sure probably because I was a little freaked out at this point with the interrogation.

Me: "There are people who want to know about this event and I was going to tell them about it. That's all."

Frank: "Well you can shoot pictures if you give us copies of them."

Me: "I am not going to do that."

Frank: "Why not?"

Me: "Because I do not do that. If you want me to stop shooting pictures of your event so I can tell people about it at no cost to you then that is just fine with me."

At this point I think it set in on him how terrible he was coming across because he mumbled some more and said "Well....let me get you a media pass...and...."

By this time I had time to think about totally absurd and stupid this whole thing was and I was pissed so I just broke my stuff down, set it beside me and said "Don't worry about it." Then he just walked away.

Keep in mind, we are at an event with 31 players and five of them are players anyone has heard of. I swear I was the only paying spectator because the only people were there with players. I am shooting pictures with a $4000 camera rig minding my own business and I get the third degree from the owner and president and basically shaken down for the ability to take photos.

I always try and see the other guys point of view but in this case I keep coming back to the same thing. If a promoter is this bloody stupid and short sited then screw him. Here we are at a so called professional event with a referee/bouncer and the biggest concern of the president is that god forbid someone may actually give a sh!t about his event. The same guy who sanctioned a tournament that aired the top finishers and then all he could do was shrug his shoulders. It pisses me off.

Never mind that the company I work for has put more money in players pockets over the last few years than his whole pseudo organization. I am probably still a little pissed so I may be being too hard on the guy but no matter which way you cut it is just dumb.
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You do realize the the media pass he was about to give you would have got you in to the rest of the event for free? Sounds like your aggravation cost you a free full event pass.
 
Mark Griffin said:
If the numbers in an earlier post are correct, how come the 'payout police' have not said anything?

31 players x $300 entry = $9,300. With $20,000 added that should equal $29,300.

1st $6000.00
2nd $4600.00
3rd $3500.00
4th $2500.00
5-6 $1600.00
7-8 $1250.00
9-12 $675.00

The payouts listed only total $25,000.

Where is the other $4,300????? UPS site said entry included registration fees.

I know if I had an 'error' like that, I would be beaten up till I was 'black & blue' . . .lol

Mark Griffin
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Wont say much about the politics involved here cos I'm complete ooutsider, but gotta add that if you're having tournaments there where's only 31 players, lacking top pros, and still 20000$ added, something has been done well also.

If 70% of the prize monies is coming from sponsors (or 60%, after the mystic disappearance of the 4,300$), it's still pretty damn good. Something what we europeans are not able to witness here at all.

(Matchroomsport's and International stuff is different of course.)
 
Craig Fales said:
Not for the sport, just the little squits at UPA. Really the whole UPA needs to be shut out with a big boycott. Hasn't trouble followed it around from the start?

EDIT: LOLz at his moniker. http://www.internationalpooltour.com/Players/Bio_Alvarez_Frank.aspx
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The UPA needs is a leader who puts the sport/game ahead of his/her own wants and needs & aspirations. It needs a commissioner much like the NFL did when it became Americas game...someone that "knows'' the game and puts all their actions and efforts into getting it out of its current merry go round situation. Only then will it be possible to crawl out of its current situation. I've always wondered where Frank got the money to travel/play in all the events he been to, must come from player dues. Mind you I know he does work hard, but personally I think there is someone out there who puts the game before himself.
 
Island Drive said:
The UPA needs is a leader who puts the sport/game ahead of his/her own wants and needs & aspirations. It needs a commissioner much like the NFL did when it became Americas game...someone that "knows'' the game and puts all their actions and efforts into getting it out of its current merry go round situation. Only then will it be possible to crawl out of its current situation. I've always wondered where Frank got the money to travel/play in all the events he been to, must come from player dues. Mind you I know he does work hard, but personally I think there is someone out there who puts the game before himself.
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Very well said Bill and very accurate. I think many have started projects with these very values in mind, and then when they realize just how difficult it is they begin to feel the pressure and as time goes, the money becomes more and more prevelant.

I also agree there needs to be a comish as in baseball, NBA, and NFL. It is though going to be tough to find one who isn't money motivated! I furtherly agree it needs to be someone who knows the game,,,,but not a pro player. It needs to be a business first and that will call for some very hard line decisions for very many! it would be a most difficult task for anyone.

Since the early 80"s, I have often wondered what ever happened to Lary Meuth???
 
JCIN said:
I am a little pissed right now so let me preface this by saying this post is strictly my opinion and has nothing to do with TAR. That said, check this crap out.

I am all pumped up to go to the UPA event here in Vegas to hang out and watch some of my friends play, take photos and I was planning on texting some match updates. I get to the "arena" and ask the lady at the door how much. It is $10 for the 10am-4pm session $15 for the late session. $25 a day seems a little high but oh well. I ask how much for the whole event. She says $60, so I say "Ok, I will do that." Then she asks if I am an ACS member to which I reply honestly "No." She then informs me it will be $75 for the whole thing.

I'm sorry but $75 to watch a 31 man field with only 1 or 2 of the top ten players is just nuts. So I calm my inner nit and just pay $10 for the morning session figuring I will shoot some pics and see how the event goes.

I get into the "arena" and I am carrying my camera gear in a backpack. I set the back pack on a chair out of the way and start to put my kit together. A lady in a referee shirt comes up and says "Are you involved with this event?". I was a little weirded out by the question and wanted to respond "Not if you paid me." But I just asked her what she meant. She replies "Are you a player in the event?" I say "No." She then proceeds to tell me that you have to pay to be able to watch this tournament at which time I raise my right arm and put the little paper wristband right at her eye level.

She says she is sorry she didn't see the wristband and that not only is she the only referee for this professional event this session she has to watch the door too in order to make sure no one gets in without paying. I tell her "No worries." and go about my business.

I get my stuff put together and go sit down in the stands away from everyone else and take some photos of Josh Ulrich and John Morra playing their matches. John finishes his and comes over, sits down and we talk about the event. As we are doing this I am shooting pictures.

Frank Alverez enters the "Arena" and makes a bee line straight toward me. At this point I say to myself "Self, this is gonna get weird." I was right.

Frank: "I am Frank Alverez President of the UPA. Who are you shooting pictures for?"

Me: "Just for myself really."

Frank: "Who are you with? What media?"

Me: "The Action Report"

Frank: "The Action Report? Whats that?"

Me: "You have never heard of The Action Report? Really?"

Frank: "Well yes but I don't know who you are affiliated with"

Me: "Uhhhhh....what do you mean?"

Frank: At this point he mumbled something about BCA or...I am not sure probably because I was a little freaked out at this point with the interrogation.

Me: "There are people who want to know about this event and I was going to tell them about it. That's all."

Frank: "Well you can shoot pictures if you give us copies of them."

Me: "I am not going to do that."

Frank: "Why not?"

Me: "Because I do not do that. If you want me to stop shooting pictures of your event so I can tell people about it at no cost to you then that is just fine with me."

At this point I think it set in on him how terrible he was coming across because he mumbled some more and said "Well....let me get you a media pass...and...."

By this time I had time to think about totally absurd and stupid this whole thing was and I was pissed so I just broke my stuff down, set it beside me and said "Don't worry about it." Then he just walked away.

Keep in mind, we are at an event with 31 players and five of them are players anyone has heard of. I swear I was the only paying spectator because the only people were there with players. I am shooting pictures with a $4000 camera rig minding my own business and I get the third degree from the owner and president and basically shaken down for the ability to take photos.

I always try and see the other guys point of view but in this case I keep coming back to the same thing. If a promoter is this bloody stupid and short sited then screw him. Here we are at a so called professional event with a referee/bouncer and the biggest concern of the president is that god forbid someone may actually give a sh!t about his event. The same guy who sanctioned a tournament that aired the top finishers and then all he could do was shrug his shoulders. It pisses me off.

Never mind that the company I work for has put more money in players pockets over the last few years than his whole pseudo organization. I am probably still a little pissed so I may be being too hard on the guy but no matter which way you cut it is just dumb.
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All you needed was a few beers and this could have really gotten good. JK. On a serious note this isn't surprising. Some people just don't have a damn clue.
 
From it's inception, to current modern day, the UPA has ALWAYS been a self serving organization.
Doesn't matter who was running it, it wasn't about the players, it was about who could control players and manipulate rankings so that the boys club didn't have to work as hard.

It doesn't really matter if the UPA changes at all, cause to some people, that is what the UPA will ALWAYS represent. Just another form of organized crime in pool.
 
While following the course of this thread and researching previous threads in regards to Men's Professional Pool,it is evident that the most serious vacuum exists in Leadership within the Organizations. In our desire to see Pool develop into what the society at large considers a "Sport",the politics of greed within the Billiard Industry works at odds with each other to establish their Power and Control. It's like "I've got mine,and I won't share with anyone else." This doesn't allow structure to develop with a system of clear and honest safeguards for those involved from investor,appointee's,and participants alike. It is a complex issue. It requires more space than this reply will allow.
I will say this,any discussion of Professional Pool in the U.S. without Mark Griffin's involvement,would be detrimental in all regards.
 
RBC said:
I nominate

Mark Griffin!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
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We all love what Mark contributes to the pool world, but
nominate him for what?

The UPA is a name a brand and thats it. It is a failing organization. Why would Mark want to have anything to do with them except to put them out of business? He already controls a bigger "brand", the BCA.

Instead of nominating Mark as the head of the UPA, do him a favor and support the BCA.
 
jason said:
We all love what Mark contributes to the pool world, but
nominate him for what?

The UPA is a name a brand and thats it. It is a failing organization. Why would Mark want to have anything to do with them except to put them out of business? He already controls a bigger "brand", the BCA.

Instead of nominating Mark as the head of the UPA, do him a favor and support the BCA.
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I nominate the trainwreck that is the UPA to just dissolve into obscurity.
 
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