Isnt there a group of players that remove the bumper because they think it dampens the feedback of the cue?
What makes a great cue better than a good cue ...?
- Thread starter WilleeCue
- Start date
Isnt there a group of players that remove the bumper because they think it dampens the feedback of the cue?
I believe differently, my take is that there is a correlation between shaft and butt harmonics that affects the feel (hit) of a cue.
Are you refering to a cue that fits YOUR preferences as one of the better cues?
Would other players not think it was not such a great cue because their preferences are different.
Is there one cue that almost everyone would play with and call it a great cue?
SouthWest is one example of a cue considered by many to be a great cue.
That is why some makers copy that style right down to the joint pin and ring work.
But there are also some that dont like the Southwest feel or style and dont consider them to be all that good.
Are they ignorant or just inexperienced?
Steev ...If a cue maker throws away more than half his shaft wood he needs to find a new supplier.
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Hi,
For any given player's preferences, I think it is:
#1: Tip, & Ferrule selection
#2: Shaft Size & Taper Geometry
#3: Density of the Shaft Wood 4 oz. or better
#4: Balance Point
Rick G
For any given player's preferences, I think it is:
#1: Tip, & Ferrule selection
#2: Shaft Size & Taper Geometry
#3: Density of the Shaft Wood 4 oz. or better
#4: Balance Point
Rick G
I never said anything about player preferences making them ignorant or inexperienced. And by ignorant I am not meaning stupid. I mean they aren't well educated or knowledgeable. The word ignorant sounds bad when it's actually nothing negative.
You are correct, some cues are more popular than others because of player style. If the majority of players have a play style that fits a certain cue, then that cue is going to be in higher demand & more popular than other cues. The demand is high because it fits a whole bunch of players' play style. If you, as a cuemaker, only play one pocket or your style of playing other games is mild & soft stroked, then your cues are naturally going to reflect it. The only people who are going to really like your cues are players who play with a similar style. If you have a minority style, then your cues are going to have a minority demand. If you have a majority style, then your cues are likely going to have a majority demand. The other factor to this dynamic is the play level of the builder. If you aren't very good at playing or know a whole lot about the science of the game, then you probably aren't going to be able to offer the majority of players something they think is great. If you just put cues together using good materials, tight construction, producing a solid cue, it's not enough. You have to know why you are doing certain things and from that you can tune your techniques to achieve the hit & playability you want the cue to have. If you don't know, then you are going to think a solid cue should be as good as any other cue and justify it to yourself as the buyers being ignorant instead of you. You'll blame it on hype instead of coming to terms with the fact that there's something you don't know about cuemaking. I hate to say it, but the fact is some builders have what it takes & others do not. The demand & success reflect it. People buying cues aren't idiots. They aren't spending their hard earned money on foundless hype. To say they do is insulting to them and it's severely arrogant to believe that a cuemaker knows more about how a cue should play than a player does.
That's how I see the cue world. I'm not attempting to piss anybody off or insult anyone. I'm just calling it like I see it, as both a builder and a player in no particular order. For me, building cues has made me a better player. And being a better player has made me better at cuemaking. We should all be striving to be the best we can, never settling. And if we aren't evolving as players, it's hard to evolve at building. To study one is to study the other, like peanut butter & jelly. Peanut butter sandwiches are good. hey're a whole lot better with jelly. And likewise.
If you want to know how to achieve a particular feel, you buy several different types of wood & you experiment with several types of construction techniques. Record your findings & start looking for patterns. Same with performance. Try different tips, different ferrules, different construction techniques, different tapers, etc. Record your findings & look for patterns. Learn your woods & what makes a good piece as opposed to a bad one. It's important to play with all of these seemingly endless combinations and pay close attention to the results. It takes time. It's time spent learning & not building customer cues, which apparently isn't popular with a lot of builders. It's things that can't be learned online, only in the shop & on the table. Fact is, there's reasons big names get their names beyond the phenominom of hype. Hype isn't a cause, it's a byproduct, the emmissions. Again, just the way I see things.
Not taken that way at all.
Thanks for your take on the subject as it has given me something to think about.
Just out of curiosity ... how many hours do you spend at the pool hall verses at your lathe each week?
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Awesome post. Love it.:thumbup:
This is why I build cues but don't sell them. Until I am happy with what I can offer, I will not subject anyone else to them.
In my area there the closest pool hall is 20 miles east or west, from here. Pool here, is mostly tavern leagues. I've found that there are a lot of ignorant players, who judge cues mainly by their cost. Name a 1/2 dozen cues, made in China & you'll see a large number of these at any league location. The better players, as a rule, are better educated & you will see better brands in their hands. I've made replacement shafts for cues & when I explain that this shaft should play better than their original, they say that they don't care or can't tell the difference. They just want a shaft, that is in their price range. Right now I am building 6 cues in the $1200 - $1800 range. These players are very knowledgeable about what they want & what they should be paying for it. On the other hand I am currently building a dozen or more cues in the $300- $600 range & only a few of these player have any idea of what hits good or why. They just want one of my cues, because of price & my reputation...JER
I used to play A LOT. It was the only thing I did besides work. I have been playing since I was middle school age. I love it. I still play frequently. I plasy tournies probably once a week, more on good weeks. I play league once a week & I have one day a week where I play with locals or whatever. Most of my time at the lathe anymore comes on weekends or late at night when the family is asleep. But before the family came along, it was a toss between the lathe & the table. I built countless "frankenstein" cues & ran off to the table to test them out. Even at home I have a 9-footer so I still get those ideas & put something together & test it. It's a lot of fun for me. The two go hand & hand. The purpose for me is to create a cue that makes me a better player, gives me a little more edge. Whether that's even possible or not is debatable but I have a lot of fun trying.
say anything negative online and you'll catch some flack here on az.
i like that "the butt is at least half" bit!lol
There is a difference between "negative" comments that are intended to inflame or "push buttons" and "constructive criticism" intended to educate. I welcome the latter. I have had my fill of the former.
If flame wars, taunting, name calling, and belittling someone to boost their own ego are someones bag then they need to join the "army" ... hint hint ... wink wink ...
This is a very big internet and there is a place for everyone.
I am not a cuemaker, but I buy and sell tons of them and know lots of makers.
One of the things that I thought was a great learning experience that a local cuemaker did in my hometown was to take a J&J sneaky pete and slowly make a change at a time to see what effect it made on the cue. This guy, like most of the cuemakers, was a very good pool player. He also let us evaluate each change.
He changed the pin, the tips, ferrelles, shaft, taper of shaft, etc. Once he was done (is a cuemaker ever done?). This J&J cue played super, I mean really great.
Based on this combination, he continued to actually make cues from scratch, but with the "discovered" combination.
Being an engineer, I thought it was a great learning experience, and I guess a super design of experiement.
Just a thought,
Ken
One of the things that I thought was a great learning experience that a local cuemaker did in my hometown was to take a J&J sneaky pete and slowly make a change at a time to see what effect it made on the cue. This guy, like most of the cuemakers, was a very good pool player. He also let us evaluate each change.
He changed the pin, the tips, ferrelles, shaft, taper of shaft, etc. Once he was done (is a cuemaker ever done?). This J&J cue played super, I mean really great.
Based on this combination, he continued to actually make cues from scratch, but with the "discovered" combination.
Being an engineer, I thought it was a great learning experience, and I guess a super design of experiement.
Just a thought,
Ken
There is a difference between "negative" comments that are intended to inflame or "push buttons" and "constructive criticism" intended to educate. I welcome the latter. I have had my fill of the former.
If flame wars, taunting, name calling, and belittling someone to boost their own ego are someones bag then they need to join the "army" ... hint hint ... wink wink ...
This is a very big internet and there is a place for everyone.
i know the difference and you seem to as well. the fact is it doesn't matter how you mean it there's always some "captin sava hoe" jumping in to defend who ever no matter if it was constructive criticism or not
I agree, Very nice thread with nice comments, As for me, there are things that beyond on my control, if their cues are great than mine. Well i respect that, we have different believes or principles in life. So expect there is no end for searching the real and truth answers. more important to me is that i'm constantly learning new things in actual way.
---Al
If flame wars, taunting, name calling, and belittling someone to boost their own ego are someones bag then they need to join the "army" ... hint hint ... wink wink ...
Not everyone gets the same reception as you WilleeCue.
Private-No-Class Dave
I've tried many a cue. Myself having a couple of them in my collection. There are very few that I don't care for, but the vast majority are good playing cues and are well constructed.
From experience, there are cues that at first doesn't play well to my liking. I do mix and match butts with shafts (I keep a detailed record of my cues specs). Change tips and sometimes ferrules. Put weight bolts or take them out. Until I find the right combination and the cue plays to my liking.
The great cues to me, are the ones that I can play with right off the butt without changing my style. They hit really good, balances well, sounds good and pushes the cueball with ease.
PS: Don't ask me to name the cues/cuemaker. =P
From experience, there are cues that at first doesn't play well to my liking. I do mix and match butts with shafts (I keep a detailed record of my cues specs). Change tips and sometimes ferrules. Put weight bolts or take them out. Until I find the right combination and the cue plays to my liking.
The great cues to me, are the ones that I can play with right off the butt without changing my style. They hit really good, balances well, sounds good and pushes the cueball with ease.
PS: Don't ask me to name the cues/cuemaker. =P