Mosconi's 526
- Thread starter DTL
- Start date
To me, the most important factor is that it be a competitive or exhibition run, not something recorded of a guy practicing in a basement. I think the straight pool challenges right now are the best chance to break the record in a way that people could get behind. In any event, if it happens it will almost for sure it will be done on a 9' table.
Sure they will! Probable knocks:
- They'll knock the cloth, saying today's worsted cloth is a lot easier to shoot on than yesteryear's nap cloth (i.e. the gratuitous "ya need a stroke on that old cloth" thing);
- They'll knock the balls used, saying today's phenolic resin balls are a lot more reliable than yesteryear's ivory or polyester balls;
- They'll knock the cues and tips
- ...insert more here...
And it's a bunch of horse pucky, too! To me, Thomas Engert's 491 on a German Dynamic table (a 9-footer naturally, since Dynamic doesn't make anything smaller) with Artemis rubber is right up there alongside Mosconi's 526.
-Sean
Hi,
From what I have heard is that after 526 Willy broke down his stick and stopped shooting.
There were rumors that he had a minor heart attack and did not feel good.
The reason he stopped shooting was very simple, he had no shot other than a fly shot. Willy was smart enough to understand quitting in the middle of a high run was the stuff legends are made of.
I can't prove anything I just said other than something I was told by an old timer.
Rick
From what I have heard is that after 526 Willy broke down his stick and stopped shooting.
There were rumors that he had a minor heart attack and did not feel good.
The reason he stopped shooting was very simple, he had no shot other than a fly shot. Willy was smart enough to understand quitting in the middle of a high run was the stuff legends are made of.
I can't prove anything I just said other than something I was told by an old timer.
Rick
It's not as relevant in straight pool as it's not a game where a power stroke is widely used, but large pockets can be tough to shoot into on shots requiring a hard speed (especially with draw) if the angles of the facings are cut a certain way. My home table has pockets that are close to 5" point-to-point, but the way they are cut, I jaw-out many balls that I feel may have went in on pockets with the points slightly closer together.
Most of the time not so, but large pockets don't ALWAYS mean easy pockets.
526 is still 526. A great feat regardless of table specs!!!
Maniac
My home table is the same way. 5" across the points, but they are angled out to that opening. The back of my pockets are only 4 1/4" across. This angle rattles out a lot of hard-hit balls that I was sure were going in as they approached the pocket.
I played on a Diamond table for the first time a few weeks ago. I was surprised how easily many hard shots along the rail dropped in compared to my table. They hit the back face of the pocket and angled right in. For all other shots, though, it was a harder to pockets balls than on my table for sure.
For me, the only runs that are truly meaningful are the ones that occur during competitive play. It's easy for a great player to let the camera roll at home and try every shot that he leaves himself. Safety play doesn't enter into things when you are playing yourself for the YouTube audience. Yes, even a 100 ball run is a pretty impressive feat at any time, but the odds are better when you don't have to worry about leaving your opponent an open table to shoot over when you miss.
If the run comes in an exhibition or competition, no matter what the conditions, I believe people would accept it. If the run is a practice run, I don't think people will accept it.
... and if, heaven forbid, a jump cue is used at any time during the run, nobody will accept it.
Looser pockets, slower cloth, dirtier balls, deader rails, high deflection shafts, and so on and so on. You simply can't reproduce the conditions of yesteryear.
526 is still 526. A great feat regardless of table specs!!!
If todays top players played on a 8' with 5" pockets they might run a 1000 John Shmidt & others have ran over 400 on 9' and 295 on a diamond Cant take away from Willie but all records were made to be broken IMHO
If todays top players played on a 8' with 5" pockets they might run a 1000 John Shmidt & others have ran over 400 on 9' and 295 on a diamond Cant take away from Willie but all records were made to be broken IMHO
To paraphrase sfleinen, yes the feat will be knocked because that is what pool players do best...
14.1 is a game of short shots where about 80% of the balls are pocketed in the two bottom corner pockets.
The smaller the the table the harder it is to run balls, cue ball control has to be dead nuts perfect.
Do you think a player of Mosconi's ability would miss a shot if it was 6" longer on a 9' table?
The smaller the the table the harder it is to run balls, cue ball control has to be dead nuts perfect.
Do you think a player of Mosconi's ability would miss a shot if it was 6" longer on a 9' table?
To paraphrase sfleinen, yes the feat will be knocked because that is what pool players do best...
Remove "pool players" and add just about anybody to varying degrees.
I believe it's called "human nature".
Nah, he missed.
There are lots of rumors. There is a contemporary written account the he missed a tough shot (six in the side, IIRC). There is also a rumor that twice during the match an object ball bounced straight out of the pocket but the run continued. There are lots of rumors.
nuthin to it!
How many four by eight home tables are there out there with pockets that suck up balls like a Hoover? Had one myself when I was a teenager. With modern shafts and balls, all the knowledge and aiming systems out there now people should be running over five hundred and twenty-six balls left and right. Oh yeah, most don't play 14.1. Seems they would be reporting huge packages on these tables then. That isn't happening either!
The truth is that Willie Mosconi was one of the best pool players to ever swing a stick. I doubt that anyone has ever played at the level he did over the length of time he did with the consistency he had. He had ability, a great work ethic, and opportunity. He also managed to avoid the vices that were the downfall of many a great player. All these things together are an extremely rare combination.
Hu
How many four by eight home tables are there out there with pockets that suck up balls like a Hoover? Had one myself when I was a teenager. With modern shafts and balls, all the knowledge and aiming systems out there now people should be running over five hundred and twenty-six balls left and right. Oh yeah, most don't play 14.1. Seems they would be reporting huge packages on these tables then. That isn't happening either!
The truth is that Willie Mosconi was one of the best pool players to ever swing a stick. I doubt that anyone has ever played at the level he did over the length of time he did with the consistency he had. He had ability, a great work ethic, and opportunity. He also managed to avoid the vices that were the downfall of many a great player. All these things together are an extremely rare combination.
Hu
Indeed....The Table Was Not a 5'x10' or a 4.5'x9'
According to Wiki.......526 high run.....Mosconi set the world record by running 526 consecutive balls without a miss during a straight pool exhibition in Springfield, Ohio on March 19–20, 1954. To this day the record has not been toppled and many speculate it may never be bested.[10][11] A handwritten and notarized affidavit[12] with the signatures of more than 35 eyewitnesses exists as proof of this feat.
The record was set on a 4 × 8 foot Brunswick table with 5 1/4 inch corner pockets at the East High Billiard Club. Today's standard for tables may be considered more difficult to play on than this exhibition table in the sense that longer shots are required (today's standard tables are 9 x 4 1/2 ft) with 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 inch pockets, but today's tables may be considered easier to play on in the sense that there is more room for the balls to spread, creating unfettered shots. Mosconi competed successfully on 4 1/2 × 9 and 5 x 10 ft tables. The 526-ball record just happened to be on a 4 × 8 ft table, a size seldom used in professional play, but used for the billiard club exhibition that day. In fact, the room owner expected the exhibition to take place on the room's 9 foot table. That table was not a Brunswick, so Willie was required to play on one of the Brunswick 8 foot tables.
Okay.......after having read the above.......there's been so many different versions of what actually happened and maybe it's time to set the record staright once and for all time. The banter and debate about how great an accomplishment this was or that that feat should be in any way diminished by having been played on a 4'x8' "Brunswick" table is just silliness......OMG.......I didn't know how jealous and petty some folks could be.........it's just so easy to become a critic or cynic.
LET'S AT LEAST GET THE FACTS RIGHT ON WHAT REALLY HAPPENED
The following is a direct excerpt from "Willie's Game, an Autobiography" by Willie Mosconi & Stanley Cohen, copyright 1963, Macmillan Publishing Company, Page 167, 2nd paragraph.
"On March 19, in Springfield , Ohio, I ran 526 balls, a record that still stands. I was playing a two-hundred point match against an amateur by the name of Earl Bruney in the East High Billiard Club. He made three balls off the break, then I ran two-hundred and just kept going. The run took two hours and ten minutes which menas that over tha span I averaged four balls a minute. I finally missed a difficult cut shot, but by that time I was weary; it was almost a relief to have it come to an end. There were about three hundred people in the audience and one of them was an attorney who prepared an affadavit of my claim to a new record. A few days later the BCA gave it its stamp of approval."
So that's what really happened....Willie had to play only on Brunswick pool tables just like the other 20 professional pool players that were also under contract to Brunswick....ljust ike Ralph Greenleaf was and also the other top 19 players in the world. Brunswock maintained a touring group of pros....the top 21 pocket billiards players in the world.
Willie Mosconi is a "Diety" when it comes to pool.......The Best of The Best........"NUF SED!"
Matt B.
According to Wiki.......526 high run.....Mosconi set the world record by running 526 consecutive balls without a miss during a straight pool exhibition in Springfield, Ohio on March 19–20, 1954. To this day the record has not been toppled and many speculate it may never be bested.[10][11] A handwritten and notarized affidavit[12] with the signatures of more than 35 eyewitnesses exists as proof of this feat.
The record was set on a 4 × 8 foot Brunswick table with 5 1/4 inch corner pockets at the East High Billiard Club. Today's standard for tables may be considered more difficult to play on than this exhibition table in the sense that longer shots are required (today's standard tables are 9 x 4 1/2 ft) with 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 inch pockets, but today's tables may be considered easier to play on in the sense that there is more room for the balls to spread, creating unfettered shots. Mosconi competed successfully on 4 1/2 × 9 and 5 x 10 ft tables. The 526-ball record just happened to be on a 4 × 8 ft table, a size seldom used in professional play, but used for the billiard club exhibition that day. In fact, the room owner expected the exhibition to take place on the room's 9 foot table. That table was not a Brunswick, so Willie was required to play on one of the Brunswick 8 foot tables.
Okay.......after having read the above.......there's been so many different versions of what actually happened and maybe it's time to set the record staright once and for all time. The banter and debate about how great an accomplishment this was or that that feat should be in any way diminished by having been played on a 4'x8' "Brunswick" table is just silliness......OMG.......I didn't know how jealous and petty some folks could be.........it's just so easy to become a critic or cynic.
LET'S AT LEAST GET THE FACTS RIGHT ON WHAT REALLY HAPPENED
The following is a direct excerpt from "Willie's Game, an Autobiography" by Willie Mosconi & Stanley Cohen, copyright 1963, Macmillan Publishing Company, Page 167, 2nd paragraph.
"On March 19, in Springfield , Ohio, I ran 526 balls, a record that still stands. I was playing a two-hundred point match against an amateur by the name of Earl Bruney in the East High Billiard Club. He made three balls off the break, then I ran two-hundred and just kept going. The run took two hours and ten minutes which menas that over tha span I averaged four balls a minute. I finally missed a difficult cut shot, but by that time I was weary; it was almost a relief to have it come to an end. There were about three hundred people in the audience and one of them was an attorney who prepared an affadavit of my claim to a new record. A few days later the BCA gave it its stamp of approval."
So that's what really happened....Willie had to play only on Brunswick pool tables just like the other 20 professional pool players that were also under contract to Brunswick....ljust ike Ralph Greenleaf was and also the other top 19 players in the world. Brunswock maintained a touring group of pros....the top 21 pocket billiards players in the world.
Willie Mosconi is a "Diety" when it comes to pool.......The Best of The Best........"NUF SED!"
Matt B.
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Mosconi was razzed by some for not being at home to play in an 'unofficial' world title match going on in philly that week.
But the match wasnt BCA sanctioned, and he was under contract with Brunswick, so he didn't really have a choice but to do something else. Hence the exhibition match, aka "the slaughter of Bruney" - and the record. (Bruney scored a whopping 3 points)
Mr. Thomas' name is 4th from the bottom on the left side
But the match wasnt BCA sanctioned, and he was under contract with Brunswick, so he didn't really have a choice but to do something else. Hence the exhibition match, aka "the slaughter of Bruney" - and the record. (Bruney scored a whopping 3 points)
Mr. Thomas' name is 4th from the bottom on the left side
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You raise many good points. However, wiki has its problems.
First, the infamous "pockets". They absolutely were not 5 1/4 inch.
This mis-reporting seems to stem from a typo in "Willie's Game" where
Mosconi is bemoaning the switch in 1950 for the World Championship
tables from 5 x 10 with 4 1/2 inch pockets to 4 1/2 x 9.
I had a conversation with a gentleman who was 15 at the time of
"The Run". Sadly he wasn't at the event itself, but he played in that
room, on the same table for many years. According to him, the table
had typical pockets for the era. Based on the description, I would guess
it was a Brunswick '20th Century' model, or one similar. That would
mean much tighter than the tables of the 1960s
that people seem to associate with the "easy" pockets.
This fellow was a pretty sporty shortstop, his opinion was the pockets were in no way easy.
The 4 x 8 delima:
There was a 9 footer in the room - in the tradition of the "head table".
But it was a Schmidt.
One other point, Willie ran 300 plus a hadfull on a 5 x 10 with 4 1/2
inch pockets. Who thinks one of the current crop is going to equal that?
Dale
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