Pro Pool players courting disaster

[Kid Dynomite]

This has been addressed twice already in this thread. The second season will start 8 weeks after the first one, meaning that we will have income 10 out of 12 months. We also have someone potentially interested in leasing the studio during the down time. As such, each week of downtime does cost money.

Ok, you agree there is down time according to your statement above. 12-10=2 months to be precise! 2 months is roughly 8 weeks! The players need 3 weeks! If the end of season one gets pushed 3 weeks then season 2 would start 5 weeks after season one! Where does that cause a problem?

The 8 weeks available there is a POTENTIAL not guaranteed renter of the studio! No contract! So 36 professionals are held back on if's and maybe's. What does bonus ball say to the guys when at the end of season one those 8 weeks go unrented?????? Ops???

Kd



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[nathandumoulin]

"Secondly, we are, in fact, pool's only world "market" regardless of what anyone says or wants to believe....there is no pool market other than we pool players, just as a new baby food company cannot ignore the millions of existing babies in the world who must eat, we pool players cannot be ignored. To anyone other than us, these extremely talented professional pool players, even in their new multicolored hockey jerseys, are, and will remain, complete unknowns."

J

A world does exist outside of America. Besides, we're not overlooking the AZ crowd, we simply realize that AZ will not cover the million+ overhead.

Ok, you agree there is down time according to your statement above. 12-10=2 months to be precise! 2 months is roughly 8 weeks! The players need 3 weeks! If the end of season one gets pushed 3 weeks then season 2 would start 5 weeks after season one! Where does that cause a problem?

We are not running back to back seasons without a break. We need time off to do our draft, organize, develop new software and hardware, and make technical adjustments. We're even considering qualifiers.

Plus my crew is from all over. They need time to fly home and see their families, which can't be done comfortably during a single weeks time. There's also xmas and new years in there.

It's pretty incredible to me to see that with only a few small slivers of information, people think they can tell other people what's best for their business.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

Plus my crew is from all over. They need time to fly home and see their families, which can't be done comfortably during a single weeks time. There's also xmas and new years in there..

They would have 5 weeks break not a " single weeks time" as stated above!

Kd


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[jimmyg]

A world does exist outside of America. Besides, we're not overlooking the AZ crowd, we simply realize that AZ will not cover the million+ overhead.

For every Az member there are dozens, if not hundreds, of friends and fellow league members. In the cases of room owners, cuemakers, instructors, equipment reps, and others, there may be thousands of players for each.

This is your market, to ignore or minimize that fact is a massive mistake. You will not capture the Indian or Russian market with your headquarters, teams, and players based in LV, IMO.

J

 

[Kid Dynomite]

Plus my crew is from all over. They need time to fly home and see their families, which can't be done comfortably during a single weeks time. There's also xmas and new years in there.
.

Did I read this wrong or did he just say his guys are more important than the players in a rough and around about way? Someone please tell me I miss read this and that was not an accurate thing to deduce from his comment???

Basically crew trumps players???

Kd


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[jasonlaus]

For every Az member there are dozens, if not hundreds, of friends and fellow league members. In the cases of room owners, cuemakers, instructors, equipment reps, and others, there may be thousands of players for each.

This is your market, to ignore or minimize that fact is a massive mistake. You will not capture the Indian or Russian market with your headquarters, teams, and players based in LV, IMO.

J

If this were even remotely true Pool would be on at least once a week. There is almost no support from pool players-they had to get rid of the entry fee at SBE for there to be an audience .
If the Pros were making a living other than a few(svb) they wouldn't be playing BB for $1,000/wk.
you guys sit there and say there's only a (possibility) of BB renting the studio, at least there's a chance- if the space is not available there is NO chance. Using the same logic the BBplayers only have a CHANCE to make any $$$ in a tourney, but they are guaranteed $$$ with BB. Plus the fact it will surely cost $$$ to play tourneys-which isn't working for them and that's why they're playing BB

 

[iusedtoberich]

If this were even remotely true Pool would be on at least once a week. There is almost no support from pool players-they had to get rid of the entry fee at SBE for there to be an audience .
If the Pros were making a living other than a few(svb) they wouldn't be playing BB for $1,000/wk.
you guys sit there and say there's only a (possibility) of BB renting the studio, at least there's a chance- if the space is not available there is NO chance. Using the same logic the BBplayers only have a CHANCE to make any $$$ in a tourney, but they are guaranteed $$$ with BB. Plus the fact it will surely cost $$$ to play tourneys-which isn't working for them and that's why they're playing BB

Agree. There is hardly any support from players, even the ones that gamble every day. If all these available players were paying fans of pro pool, there would be a thriving tour.

We are not even talking the league players here. Just the regular pool room customers. They don't even support the game as paying fans.

 

[CJ Wiley]

At the Pro level especially it's difficult to follow 8 Ball on TV.

Yes, the "Barter Deals" are the secret system for getting pool on TV {at a reasonable cost}.
The key element will be the character development for a pool show to do well on TV "

All good points (I edited it down to these two as they address the television aspect so well).

In my opinion (I can support each of these positions with sound arguement) the best format would be 8 ball (I would settle for 10 ball) with it being a race to 5, alternate break, referee racks, the character development encouraged as you suggest. The initial broadcasts should be live over a 4 day period (this would be a challenge) and then syndicated. I this was not feasible I would settle for taped segments building to a live final.

I understand your position, I just believe 8 Ball is too complicated for the viewer to understand. In all popular sports there is ONE TARGET, that means golf (one hole, one ball) Football (one end zone, one ball) Tennis (one court one ball) Hockey (one Puck one Goal) Base ball (one ball one field) ....however in 8 BALL there is 8 balls and 6 pockets which sets up a vast array of choices and intecrecies that are confusing.

At the Pro level especially it's difficult to follow 8 Ball on TV.....9 Ball has one ball, and one target (you MUST call your pocket in 9 Ball) ....and play "ROLL OUT RULES" when possible, they are by far the best rules.

 

[Scott Lee]

JAM...I stand corrected. That is beyond absurd!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

With all due respect, Scott, Keith did have to give out that spot at a one-pocket tournament last year in Arlington, Virginia.

 

[one stroke]

I understand your position, I just believe 8 Ball is too complicated for the viewer to understand. In all popular sports there is ONE TARGET, that means golf (one hole, one ball) Football (one end zone, one ball) Tennis (one court one ball) Hockey (one Puck one Goal) Base ball (one ball one field) ....however in 8 BALL there is 8 balls and 6 pockets which sets up a vast array of choices and intecrecies that are confusing.

At the Pro level especially it's difficult to follow 8 Ball on TV.....9 Ball has one ball, and one target (you MUST call your pocket in 9 Ball) ....and play "ROLL OUT RULES" when possible, they are by far the best rules.

what is the audience 3 yr olds,, pool is easy to understand ,, the peception veiwers have that it lacks in severe difficulty , it lacks in wow factor the sit on the edge of your seat suspence, even suden death 7 ball did not change that it got its audience in the biggining but at the end of the day interest dropped
Plainly put its boring thats what BB is trying to change ,, to me its lipstick on a pig


1

 

[nathandumoulin]

Did I read this wrong or did he just say his guys are more important than the players in a rough and around about way?

The difference is that my crew works 60 hour weeks (136 hours this week alone EACH). The players play 3 hours. They are not more important than the players, but I have every right to be concerned about my crew "burning out".

Please quit trying to twist my words and pick a fight. It won't work.

This is your market, to ignore or minimize that fact is a massive mistake.

I did not say that it's not our market. I simply stated that it's not the entire market. We are not overlooking it, but simply not throwing all our eggs into one basket.

 

[one stroke]

The difference is that my crew works 60 hour weeks (136 hours this week alone EACH). The players play 3 hours. They are not more important than the players, but I have every right to be concerned about my crew "burning out".

Please quit trying to twist my words and pick a fight. It won't work.



I did not say that it's not our market. I simply stated that it's not the entire market. We are not overlooking it, but simply not throwing all our eggs into one basket.

i just hope its a better production than that Mika video set was



1

 

[CJ Wiley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewhiffer


I understand your position, I just believe 8 Ball is too complicated for the viewer to understand. In all popular sports there is ONE TARGET, that means golf (one hole, one ball) Football (one end zone, one ball) Tennis (one court one ball) Hockey (one Puck one Goal) Base ball (one ball one field) ....however in 8 BALL there is 8 balls and 6 pockets which sets up a vast array of choices and intecrecies that are confusing.

At the Pro level especially it's difficult to follow 8 Ball on TV.....9 Ball has one ball, and one target (you MUST call your pocket in 9 Ball) ....and play "ROLL OUT RULES" when possible, they are by far the best rules.

what is the audience 3 yr olds,, pool is easy to understand ,, the peception veiwers have that it lacks in severe difficulty , it lacks in wow factor the sit on the edge of your seat suspence, even suden death 7 ball did not change that it got its audience in the biggining but at the end of the day interest dropped
Plainly put its boring thats what BB is trying to change ,, to me its lipstick on a pig

apparently so......

 

[JumpinJoe]

Anyone that wants 2/1 im laying it.
10k to 5k, im betting bonus ball as it is now and under the same management and location NEVER starts and finishes a Season 3.
I say 3 because they say they are doing 2 seasons regardless.

Both sides must post. Within the next 30 days.

 

[Johnnyt]

Anyone that wants 2/1 im laying it.
10k to 5k, im betting bonus ball as it is now and under the same management and location NEVER starts and finishes a Season 3.
I say 3 because they say they are doing 2 seasons regardless.

Both sides must post. Within the next 30 days.

Maybe someone from BB that knows thw business plan will jump on this bet. Johnnyt

 

[Diamond69]

Are the players under a gag order?

I don't know all the players on AZ. But I don't see any BB players coming on the thread to defend, deflect, support, or acknowledge any of the concerns. Are they under a specific gag order from BB organizers?
When BB was first announced, I saw players hyping it on their FB pages. But now that it's ready to relaunch after the delay, I haven't seen them hyping it again. Do they have a "wait and see" mentality at this point?
I would think at least one of them would come out and say "Yes, I'm going to these other events", or "Yes, we've seen the business model and believe in it". Or something.

 

[one stroke]

Quote:



what is the audience 3 yr olds,, pool is easy to understand ,, the peception veiwers have that it lacks in severe difficulty , it lacks in wow factor the sit on the edge of your seat suspence, even suden death 7 ball did not change that it got its audience in the biggining but at the end of the day interest dropped
Plainly put its boring thats what BB is trying to change ,, to me its lipstick on a pig

apparently so......

Guess I should have spent more time in the class room instead of the pool room

1

 

[one stroke]

I don't know all the players on AZ. But I don't see any BB players coming on the thread to defend, deflect, support, or acknowledge any of the concerns. Are they under a specific gag order from BB organizers?
When BB was first announced, I saw players hyping it on their FB pages. But now that it's ready to relaunch after the delay, I haven't seen them hyping it again. Do they have a "wait and see" mentality at this point?
I would think at least one of them would come out and say "Yes, I'm going to these other events", or "Yes, we've seen the business model and believe in it". Or something.

If I were one of them mum would be the word most of them cant make the same amount playing turnys


1

 

[Poolshootindon]

Disaster!!!!!!

You actually have raised some good points, John. Food for thought!

I still side with the pro players on this one as far as choice, though I do understand why loyalty to valued promoters who have supported professional pool in the past -- NOT MANY DO ANYMORE! -- is very important to acknowledge. :yes:

Regional tours have changed their eligibility rules in that pros must pay a higher entry fee and/or spot amateur players games in the tournament. Tough to win, for example, when you have to spot somebody 13 to 3 in one-pocket because you're a pro.

Again, as we sit in the comforts of our home, thanks to working our traditional 9-to-5 jobs, many of the professional pool players, if not most, do not have this security in life. They don't have a fat stakehorse with deep pockets paying their expenses and giving them financial security. They are living in the moment, so to speak. BB's proposition, therefore, is attractive to them. I definitely get that. They need to eat, sleep, and be merry too. :grin-square:

Instead of saying the damage is done or taking sides, maybe the BB admin and pro players will recognize the value of working within the realms of the existing pool industry. I don't think they should change course at this juncture, but I do think they need to develop an open mind for future logistics. :wink:

Jam... Grasping at straws is what I am seeing in your comments.

The old saying goes,"You made your bed so lay in it".

During the great depression of 1929 men of high esteem were reduced to selling apples on street corners.

I am sure that they didn't want to but they had to.

Sometimes you just need to adapt to your surroundings.

Pool ain't paying the bills, well maybe a 9 to 5 job will.

Think about it. :smile:

Don

 

[CJ Wiley]

want Bonus Ball to succeed, not for anything else other than human compassion

Jam... Grasping at straws is what I am seeing in your comments.

The old saying goes,"You made your bed so lay in it".

During the great depression of 1929 men of high esteem were reduced to selling apples on street corners.

I am sure that they didn't want to but they had to.

Sometimes you just need to adapt to your surroundings.

Pool ain't paying the bills, well maybe a 9 to 5 job will.

Think about it. :smile:

Don

The reality is this economy is tough for more people than just "pool players"....there's millions of people in the world that would LOVE to have that "9 to 5 job" you speak of...unfortunately, there isn't one for them.

One thing I know about we pool players, we will do what it takes to survive. I just received an email from a soldier over seas, it puts things in perspective for me. While we enjoy this "American quality of life" there are those right now making sure we can continue. I want to personally thank them and please forgive us for our petty "bonus ball knocking"......there are more important things to "knock".

We should all want Bonus Ball to succeed, not for anything else other than human compassion and NOT wanting our fellow humans to suffer. Don't make any mistake Pool Players and Many Others these days are suffering with no apparent hope for survival other than "good will". 'Life is the Teacher'