C.J. Wiley VS Keith McCready - What's The Line?

[sonny_burnett]

I've been on the side long enough.

CJ & Keith both were freaking monster money legends day.

I have the utmost respect for both players.

JAM busts her rear to contribute here and gets her buttons pushed much like JB.

Ignore it JAM. Don't stoop to their level.

It is a damn shame that pro players avoid this place because of trolls.

JAM, can Keith use the voice feature on a smart phone instead of the keyboard?

I would love to have his input to go along with CJ.

Bottom line is both players have nothing to prove. If they play we are all the better for it. No one is forcing anyone to watch. Good luck to all parties involved.

 

[JAM]

Jen, its not like you to give up !..Why would anyone care if you help Keith with his verbage, and polish his offerings a little bit..I would expect the same thing from my better half..She typed 140 wpm's, compared to my 12 :embarrassed2

I like Keith's answer to playing CJ.."If the AZB forum wants to see it..let them put up the $$$"...Classic Keith ! Hang in there kid, and don't let anyone try to insult you off the forum !

SJD

Dick, I come to AzBilliards Discussion Forum to relax, between jobs I'm working on, and have fun -- well, I used to. Lately, it's been a nightmare that keeps getting worse and worse. :sorry:

I can think of other places where I can hang out and get a pool high than come here and have to deal with the crap that's been spewed on this thread. It's outrageous.

For one thing, this game isn't even in Keith's vision for the future. It was suggested by a member here. Believe me, there are no shortage of opportunities for Keith to get back in the pit.

I was contemplating going to the Derby this year, wondering how I could work out the logistics with with my job and my dog, et cetera, but, you know what, Dick, I fear for my well-being.

I know Keith wants to play pool, but it will be in an environment where we both can have fun and enjoy pool, the way we both used to when traveling the tournament trail.

Who knows, Dick, maybe we'll see you in Arizona someday. I have some friends there that I've been wanting to visit.

 

[CJ Wiley]

The first time I played in Marietta (a N.suburb of Atlanta) I lost $1700

I played Paul Turner at Riverdale Billiards back in the mid 80s, he and Eugene Browning were the best in Atlanta at the time. They had the disadvantage of not knowing who I was (I looked like a naive' 17 years old) ......but I knew who they were.

The previous 3 months I'd been on the road with "Omaha John," and we'd won a handsome sum gambling in South Carolina - I took a month off and played tennis, "developing" a girl to go on the road, maybe through North Carolina (having a girl with you on the road was advantageous in more ways than one).

The first time I played in Marietta (a N.suburb of Atlanta) I lost $1700. - this may seem like a lot these days to lose as a "lemon," back then it was vital to let them see you lose......and the amount had to seem significant. I told everyone that "I'd be back," that I was just having an off night and could play better......much, much better. (of course they never believe the truth)

Long story short, I ended up in action every day for the next three weeks, sometimes getting the 7/8/9 from players (at first anyway). Back then "Jackie Mann," "Mean Dean," and "Kendini" made the gambling in Atlanta lucritive and entertaining.....and sometimes dangerous in bars like "The Saint," and Jackie Mann's bar in S. Atlanta..

'The Game is the Teacher'

I believe we all hold on to the past which is why we would all love to see this match. I wish we had the pool scene of the late 80's to mid 90's when you couldn't walk into a pool room without hearing what you wanna do? I grew up playing in south Atlanta (Tight pockets, Cedar Room, Riverdale Billiards etc..) so if you wanted to play you had to pay lol. Paul Turner played out of my home room in Riverdale so that will give you an idea of what type people I got to be around everyday. I know CJ knew Paul and I am sure Keith did as well.
I wish you and Keith all the best and can't wait to see him in action again. Maybe I will see ya'll at the Derby.
Seasons greetings to ya'll as well!

 

[Wedge]

Jennie

Dick, I come to AzBilliards Discussion Forum to relax, between jobs I'm working on, and have fun -- well, I used to. Lately, it's been a nightmare that keeps getting worse and worse. :sorry:

I can think of other places where I can hang out and get a pool high than come here and have to deal with the crap that's been spewed on this thread. It's outrageous.

For one thing, this game isn't even in Keith's vision for the future. It was suggested by a member here. Believe me, there are no shortage of opportunities for Keith to get back in the pit.

I was contemplating going to the Derby this year, wondering how I could work out the logistics with with my job and my dog, et cetera, but, you know what, Dick, I fear for my well-being.

I know Keith wants to play pool, but it will be in an environment where we both can have fun and enjoy pool, the way we both used to when traveling the tournament trail.

Who knows, Dick, maybe we'll see you in Arizona someday. I have some friends there that I've been wanting to visit.

If Keith wants to play pool and you both want to enjoy yourselves start going/playing in the Action Tour Events in MD and VA. The tournaments are very well run and there is a lot of regional pro's competing...Shuff, Corr, Wilkie, Krah, Madden, Mastermaker, Davis, Madden and others. Always a lot of respect between the players as well as the fans and a true sense of comradeship. You and Keith would certainly be welcome and respected.

Frank

 

[Old Nine Baller]

Well, let's look at it from a neutral viewpoint.

#1, they are each as capable as the other playing "old school two-foul 9 ball". No advantage to either one there.

#2, they are not both capable of "hitting the balls rather smartly, given enough notice and practice". One of them is 50 years old and the other is 57 1/2.

#3, What "cheese" are you talking about? Nobody in their right mind would bet a quarter on this imaginary match-up.

#4, an imaginary line for this non-match, in a race to 25 is that Keith does not get to 20.

ONB

oh man, are you gonna get it now, you, you, you anonymous, multi-identity, Keith bashing troll, you.

Lou Figueroa

Lou, I'm disappointed in you. You forgot to include any smiley faces.

I'm not interested in the other goings on in this thread, I offered what I think was the first honest opinion in response to the OP, that's all.:thumbup:

ONB

 

[CJ Wiley]

Two Foul Rules on the other hand are very, very complex

You're right, we have nothing to prove, however, we do have something to offer.

Keep in mind Keith and I vividly remember how it was when there was gambling all over the country, and we remember what rules they played. The "one foul" rules are so basic it would be difficult to write more than a page about it's strategies. These rules were designed to speed up matches and even the "playing field" to get more participants in tournaments.

This stategy really did work, however, it ruined the Pro Game in the process (one foul was never designed for professional play, it was introduced by a promoter).....keeping the integrity of a game is vital to it's existence. You won't see what happened to pool in golf, tennis, basketball, football - they have very serious rules and equipment committees that would die before diluting the integrity of their game/sport.

When you factor in the "jump/break cue," the "magic rack," and the "measel ball," you have nothing more than a carnival game......and yes, the cream will rise to the top in this game, however, they do it by mastering the rack/break/jump/kick/duck aspects which are the least appealing to a viewing audience. It's apparent at most tournaments these days.....there's no "fans" because the game is agonizing to watch, even at the highest levels.

Two Foul Rules on the other hand are very, very complex, I could write an entire book on the subject. Someone mentioned Keith and I making a video about the 2 Foul game and showcase how it's really played (few really know) - at some point this would be fun - at some point I'd like to introduce players to a modified version of "2 Foul," ideal for TV, especially for players like us that enjoy matching wits and skills on the "green felt".

For the game of pool to ever have a chance the rules need to conform to increase the entertainment value......watching "one foul" is like watching "flag football" - it's simply a much diluted version of the original game.

'The Game is the Teacher'

I've been on the side long enough.

CJ & Keith both were freaking monster money legends day.

I have the utmost respect for both players.

JAM busts her rear to contribute here and gets her buttons pushed much like JB.

Ignore it JAM. Don't stoop to their level.

It is a damn shame that pro players avoid this place because of trolls.

JAM, can Keith use the voice feature on a smart phone instead of the keyboard?

I would love to have his input to go along with CJ.

Bottom line is both players have nothing to prove. If they play we are all the better for it. No one is forcing anyone to watch. Good luck to all parties involved.

 

[SJDinPHX]

...I know Keith wants to play pool, but it will be in an environment where we both can have fun and enjoy pool, the way we both used to when traveling the tournament trail. <--By all means, at your ages, fun should be your main priority...BTW, there is no more "tournament trail" ! :boring2: :boring2: :boring2:...Who knows, Dick, maybe we'll see you in Arizona someday. I have some friends there that I've been wanting to visit.

If you guys do come Jen, be sure and come in the 'wintertime', as I did 40 years ago !..You may never leave ! .. No earthquakes, tornados, or hurricanes (unlike Florida) or freezing rain, snow and ice !.. We have three months of uncomfortable heat (during which we just stay inside, in the AC, and play pool )...and nine months of pure 70-80 degree paradise !..Plus, if you miss winter weather, it is only about an hours drive to the mountains, in northern AZ, where you can freeze your tush off,
if that's really your thing !

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou, I'm disappointed in you. You forgot to include any smiley faces.

I'm not interested in the other goings on in this thread, I offered what I think was the first honest opinion in response to the OP, that's all.:thumbup:

ONB

I'm trying to cut back

Lou Figueroa
oops

 

[Keith McCready]

First of all, I've been reading this sh*t for 3 or 4 days now. It all started from me joining the cast of American Road Player. How all this got thrown out of proportion, I don't know. Just trying to throw a little realization, trying to help the cast, and maybe have some fun with it. That's all it is.

As far as me playing CJ, me and CJ have had respect for each other's game for many years. I would never duck or be afraid of any proposition if I made the game -- if I made the game -- not the Internet. If the Internet is so interested in me and CJ playing, why don't they pool their money together and raise about 15,000. I'll need a little time. I'll play him a set of 10-ball, I'll play him a set of one-pocket, and I'll play him a set of banks for the 15,000. Whoever wins two out of three sets wins the money. No hard feelings, either way. CJ will still be my friend. And I will play my heart out.

Me coming out of retirement and having to play CJ off the bat is a little absurd. Believe me, I can find a lot easier games coming out of retirement than CJ, if you don't mind, Internet. For whatever it's worth, I will have to take many reps, many little reps, to try to get some timing back in my stroke. My eyes going from the cueball to the object ball is going to take a little of time. It's a little rusty, and that means a lot when you're trying to get back in stroke. I need hit balls, be able to feel them and dissect them.

I don't think it would take me a real long time to get in stroke because I do have a clear head now. I don't drink, and I don't smoke, thanks to my wonderful gir. She's made that possible. She fought for me to do it, and I did it. I've been 9 years clean of drinking, and I've been almost one year of not smoking.

And just for your curiosity, that 20 line going to 25 laid down on me, that sounds like a pretty good little starter kit. I will keep that in mind. I know CJ probably doesn't play as good as he used to either. It could be interesting in case I got to hitting the balls a little bit. You better ask him about playing me, he goes to 25 and I go to 20, before you start making these accusations. Don't let me win the first two games and him be down 7 to nothing. I might be able to go over my thumb from there.

For anybody that doesn't think that this is me speaking, think again. When my picture is up there, I speak, she writes. It's as simple as flipping a coin for the break. You need to find something else to do with your life if this is all you got to offer.

I hope this puts an end to this ridiculous thread, but I do hope that the American Road Player does happen becuase they will get a little dose of me. This is just the beginning of what could happen if the American Road Player arrived in your town.

Earthquake out.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

Two Foul Rules on the other hand are very, very complex, I could write an entire book on the subject. Someone mentioned Keith and I making a video about the 2 Foul game and showcase how it's really played (few really know) - at some point this would be fun - at some point I'd like to introduce players to a modified version of "2 Foul," ideal for TV, especially for players like us that enjoy matching wits and skills on the "green felt".

How will you find the time to do all the things you say you want to do? These are from a year ago. They are in the thread I started to explain Two-Foul 9 Ball to people here.http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=340453 You constantly hijacked the thread and posted incorrect information in it. As usual you made it all about you and now you're doing the same thing again.

Two-Foul is not "very,very complex" and you could not write a book about the subject. You may get a few pages on strategy but anyone can see what to do when they are at the table in the situation so they don't need a book anyway.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4447442&postcount=52

It's very entertaining to see, I'm in the process of matching up some 'Two Shot Shoot Out' games in the future, I'd like to play Rodney, Earl, Johnny, Corey, Dennis Hatch, and Shannon Dalton at some point......we may be able to get these matches televised, and we can definitely get them streamed here in Ft. Worth Texas.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4447518&postcount=54

Right now I'm talking to Rodney about doing a 'Two Shot Shoot Out' match in December after the Mosconi Cup. He'a going to the "All Japan Open" next week to tune up for the MC. Shot for shot, Rodney is still one of the five best players in the world in my opinion.

There's a lot of interest right now in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area and the Omega Tour has set their entire 2014 Schedule which is exciting. They run first class tournaments and I may start playing in some next year - this year my plate was too full earlier in the year and I my game stayed at 85%. It's up around 90% now though, so we're making progress.

Rodney is also working on some projects that are interesting and I'm sure he'll share the insight of his vision as it nears fruition..

Earl is another one that played 'Two Shot Shoot Out' as good as anyone, and it would great to play him and see what shots he comes up with. They just announced when the SKY SPORTS documentary was coming out, December 1 at 9 PM.....I think that's what it was, I'll correct it later if I'm off on the time or day.

Dennis Hatch and I played 'Two Shot Shoot Out' on several occasions for money through the years. We all know he's one of the most dangerous, offensive players in the biz....it's a matter of time before he wins another major tournament.

Johnny always wanted to play "One Foul" with me, but I'm sure he would like to play "Two Shot" under the right conditions. He will do great as this year's Team Captain, he was my "right hand player" last year and knows the Mosconi Cup better than any living human....he's been there and done that......a LOT of times.

2014 is going to be the "break away year" for Pro Pocket Billiards, there's a huge amount of changes fixing to happen and they will be the "difference that makes the difference".....one things for sure, we'll never get where we want to go by doing the "same ole thing".....'The Game is the Teacher'

What happened to these projects that people here slobbered all over when you said you were going to do them?

ONB

 

[poolhustler]

I hope this puts an end to this ridiculous thread..............

Earthquake out.

Nope........it will go on and on........ad nauseum.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I know CJ probably doesn't play as good as he used to either.

Glad to see that at least you can admit that you (and CJ) don't play as good as you used too.

For the record, no one (including myself) ever said that you still couldn't hold your own. Only that there would definitely be a difference from how you once played when you were in your prime.

It happens with every player. It happened with Sigel when he came out of retirement. It's happened to Johnny and Earl.

Despite what one person thinks, I have seen a fair amount of footage of you playing, and it's always a treat. I do sincerely look forward to seeing you play again, because regardless of how well you perform, it will still be entertaining.

 

[liakos]

You're right, we have nothing to prove, however, we do have something to offer.

Keep in mind Keith and I vividly remember how it was when there was gambling all over the country, and we remember what rules they played. The "one foul" rules are so basic it would be difficult to write more than a page about it's strategies. These rules were designed to speed up matches and even the "playing field" to get more participants in tournaments.

This stategy really did work, however, it ruined the Pro Game in the process (one foul was never designed for professional play, it was introduced by a promoter).....keeping the integrity of a game is vital to it's existence. You won't see what happened to pool in golf, tennis, basketball, football - they have very serious rules and equipment committees that would die before diluting the integrity of their game/sport.

When you factor in the "jump/break cue," the "magic rack," and the "measel ball," you have nothing more than a carnival game......and yes, the cream will rise to the top in this game, however, they do it by mastering the rack/break/jump/kick/duck aspects which are the least appealing to a viewing audience. It's apparent at most tournaments these days.....there's no "fans" because the game is agonizing to watch, even at the highest levels.

Two Foul Rules on the other hand are very, very complex, I could write an entire book on the subject. Someone mentioned Keith and I making a video about the 2 Foul game and showcase how it's really played (few really know) - at some point this would be fun - at some point I'd like to introduce players to a modified version of "2 Foul," ideal for TV, especially for players like us that enjoy matching wits and skills on the "green felt".

For the game of pool to ever have a chance the rules need to conform to increase the entertainment value......watching "one foul" is like watching "flag football" - it's simply a much diluted version of the original game.

'The Game is the Teacher'

I couldn't agree with you more CJ! There are only a few true fans of the sport. The rest think it's boring to watch! I want to watch something exciting, not the same old players running balls 1-10 in order! I want to see both players at the table each game.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching a 4-pack put together, but that's not exciting to the average spectator! They want to see drama, excitement, and the tides shift unexpectedly!

I love Efren, SVB, and JA as much as the next person, but to get more fans into this great sort of ours, we need the likes of Earl and Keith to make the sport appealing! Right now, it's absolutely boring

I've spent many hrs watching so many pro matches, I feel like I can say I've probably seen 80% of them all(not kidding)! There are very few matches that I truly enjoyed for the character, Keith and Earl! Especially Earl at the mosconi! Earl made the mosconi as far as I'm concerned, he brought pool what it needs today, pure drama!!! This gets people to watch! I know many will disagree but, Earl did make you want to watch

This sport is too great for the dullards, this is why we need to change it,,, make it exciting! We need characters that have an impact on is that will make us come back for more! SVB, one of the GREATEST players on earth, no doubt! He will attract about 22-25 people! Earl,,,, he can attract millions given the "RIGHT" opportunity!

Pool as is,,,,,way too boring for most! I love the sport and I'm always watching, but I'm in a very small minority as many of you are! Not too many people are going to nuts for (EXAMPLE) SVB playing JA a race to 15 in 10-ball this Sunday at 11am on NBC! But, I cansee people getting ready to watch Keith and Earl go at it! I would definitely change my schedule around to watch that!!!

 

[punter]

Glad to see that at least you can admit that you (and CJ) don't play as good as you used too.

For the record, no one (including myself) ever said that you still couldn't hold your own. Only that there would definitely be a difference from how you once played when you were in your prime.

It happens with every player. It happened with Sigel when he came out of retirement. It's happened to Johnny and Earl.

Despite what one person thinks, I have seen a fair amount of footage of you playing, and it's always a treat. I do sincerely look forward to seeing you play again, because regardless of how well you perform, it will still be entertaining.

You've kind of beat this point into oblivion:deadhorse: Captain Obvious. :wink:

Were you at the British Open in 2009 making the same point to Tom Watson when he got into a playoff at age 59?

Everyone knows the clock is ticking. According to your opinion, people over 40 shouldn't even bother getting out of bed.

 

[Wedge]

Mike Lebron

Spanish Mike won the US Open 9 Ball at the age of 54...just saying!

Wedge

 

[BeiberLvr]

You've kind of beat this point into oblivion:deadhorse: Captain Obvious. :wink:

Were you at the British Open in 2009 making the same point to Tom Watson when he got into a playoff at age 59?

Everyone knows the clock is ticking. According to your opinion, people over 40 shouldn't even bother getting out of bed.

I swear it's like certain people only read what they want to.

Never said older players couldn't have their moments of success, but that's all they are...moments.

That level of consistency they were once used to is now gone. Nothing to be upset about. Heck, I wish I could play just half as good as Keith probably does now.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

Spanish Mike won the US Open 9 Ball at the age of 54...just saying!

Wedge

Mike won the 1988 US Open by defeating Varner, one of the dumpers in the 1991 COC invitational. Do you think there may be a connection there?

Just saying.

ONB

 

[lost]

A lot of "older" players could have competed all the way up through their 50's. Pool is about the least physical sport there is next to Poker?
Reality is they had to devote time to making an actual living at some point, or forget about a family life and die poor.
There aren't a ton of exceptions to this obviously.

 

[Hungarian]

Dude, that's a hell of a thing to say. You should get punched in the nose for this post..

The biggest difference between Keith and CJ in my opinion is Keith played as a "Chemical Warrior" and if it wasn't around played about 2 balls worse. CJ didn't need "Chemicals". He had one of the top gears in the country and didn't need the extra help. If they played today I'm sure KM could get the 9 ball playing 10 ball, and I'm sure he wouldn't like it. Unless of course if he was WIRED out his mind. Jam if your offended it DOESN'T MATTER, because we all know how KM played his whole career. If you have two guys that play about the same, I take the player on the "NATURAL" every time.

 

[Wedge]

Nope

Mike won the 1988 US Open by defeating Varner, one of the dumpers in the 1991 COC invitational. Do you think there may be a connection there?

Just saying.

ONB

I hate the BS COC dump and I think it ruined pool as far as with the Casino's but I doubt if the US Open win was a dump. Mike had to beat too many players to get to the finals!

Wedge