AZ member screwed by Bill Stroud of Josswest

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Bill has also always marched to his own drum and done things his way. He's also a very proud man. It's possible that all questioning his integrity here on AZ has caused him to shut down totally on this project.

Sean------->not condoning what happened either, just saying

I have found that this is never what really happens. If someone is a POS and fails to honor a commitment, then they say I am not doing it because of the way they acted after the failure; well that is the excuse of a weak and pathetic individual. They also do this about owed money and basically extort the person they owe money by saying that the individual will never be paid if they tell anyone.
 
I'm starting to wonder if Bill made a bet with some other cue maker about how he could come up with some unique cue designs without spending a dime. :shrug:

There are other plausible reasons for the dream cue not coming to fruition but it's all on Bill.

I'm sure anyone could foster some reasons for a change of heart but it still doesn't make it right.

Bill told me on the phone that he was still making the cue. (That was about a year ago. Until he tells me differently, I'll take him at his word. Yeah, I know, I must be a patient guy. I did wait 3 1/2 years for my POW-MIA Bender cue. :banghead:
 
wasn't there an issue of the cue's design being very close/nearly identical to a cue already made by another cuemaker?? that kind of nullifies a "design your dream" contest.
 
I've been following this thread and sitting on my hands,,,some of the excuses (reasons) posted here for someone not keeping their word are simply absurd....because, aside from death and the total inability to perform, there really aren't any. To not even acknowledge that someone's actions are unacceptable and unethical are just as bad.

One's past good character hasn't any bearing on one's current lack of character, and while some may think that defending a friend's bad behavior is admirable, I would have to question their character as well. But that's just me.

J
 
No doubt people can keep their promises, but, we should also try to put ourselves in the head of a cue maker. A lot of them seem to have the same sad story.

I think in some cases they originally do it for themselves and maybe some friends because they love it, and they want to learn the art. There must be immense pride in hitting balls great with a cue you made yourself, that looks exactly the way you always wanted.

Later word catches on and they decide to make cues for money... though if you do the math, you can't get rich doing it. It's just expected... you don't want to turn someone down who is clamoring for your work. It's flattering and it'd be nice to get paid for the hobby you love.

But after a while you just stop loving it. It becomes a job, or worse, a chore. You can't take a break, you can't be fully creative because you're expected to fulfill their wishes, and people are now demanding progress reports and pics. You can't experiment as much and risk making a dud.

After a while you're just tired of it, you avoid the shop, and if you ever spend time working on your own projects while other people are waiting on cues, you feel guilty just for doing the thing used to enjoy.

Finally someone starts complaining on the forum about their late order and at that point you probably have an attitude like "hell with these guys. they took something fun and ruined it. I'm done with this."

Maybe that seems like a bullshit attitude but you have to ask yourself why a guy who did this for years with some success now can't bring himself to complete a cue that he owes... try to empathize with the 'bad guy' a little, he probably didn't just decide to retire and move to the bahamas and say 'haha, see ya suckers!'.
 
Like Joey, I spoke to Billy about this cue over a year ago. I will only say that I was very disappointed in his response to me. He didn't seem to think it was a priority and would get to it when he had time. I love Billy but I lost some respect for him that day.
 
Bill has also always marched to his own drum and done things his way. He's also a very proud man. It's possible that all questioning his integrity here on AZ has caused him to shut down totally on this project.
Sean------->not condoning what happened either, just saying

It is fine to do things in your own way, on that I agree. If he is a very proud man then why did he not keep his word and build the cue? To me that is arrogance not pride. No one on AZ made him shut down, he did that out of arrognace as well. His actions alone have brought his reputation dishonor and a lack of respect from many people. The reactions here are because he made a statement saying he would do something and then did not deliver, it's as simple as that.
 
If this was the same as paying for a cue and you value your time as highly as you do, you need some financial advice.

As for 'fading your wives/gf's', it is nice to hear what is most important to you. You jeopardize a relationship, take time away from your spouse and kids for a CHANCE at winning a decorated piece of wood? Your priorities are severely messed up.

So, yes, I'll admit that I don't get it. If this contest was taken so seriously that people neglected paying jobs, loving spouses, and innocent children for something that would in no way make their lives better, then I truly am baffled.

This argument makes you look like a sad, sad little man.

dld

Let me word it slightly differently so someone like you might get it...

Public lottery or contests (whether free or paid) that have no winners are illegal.

If mhaimi decided to push this, he has zero chance of not winning in small claims court.

How about that argument smarty pants?

Edit:

Let me just add a "furthermore."

Furthermore, being that the cue was Bill's last and the complex nature of Mhaimi's design, it's not far-fetched to reason the cue is valued somewhere in the 5-figure range, which may not even qualify for small claims court. If there was an "inquiry" (if you would) on Mhaimi's design, Bill had an opportunity to select the second place finisher in votes (you can't nullify the contest). He didn't, so it's a moot point.

I would surmise that if Mhaimi did in fact decide to take his claim to court, the judge would value his claim based on the cash-value of the cue (as if he was winning a gift certificate to Joss West (Inc, LLC or whatever it is). That would probably be determined not by Bill, but probably by similar cues of similar design by similar makers of his stature.

Although I'm not the resident legal expert-- Dennis is -- but I know there's also something called intent and/or implied intent. Bill is on record not long before his contest saying that nearly ANY cue can be made within X weeks. Bill never said in his contest that the cue will be made within 10 years (or whatever). It's reasonable to deduce the intent of his contest was no more than 2 or 3x his quoted time frame, based on his previous quote/post.

People who say oh shucks just let it go or "you didn't pay for it" are clearly clueless. If I had won this cue, we wouldn't be discussing anything--- a court date would have already been set. That way, a judge would decide instead of an internet pool forum full of know it alls.

Finally, Bill Stroud wasn't running this contest as Bill Stroud (individual), he was running it as Bill Stroud (CEO of Joss West Cues). It was his last cue before retirement (going out of business). If your local Ford dealership was running a "Going out of business contest" and whoever drew the best picture of a concept car won a new 2012 Ford Focus (which, is about the same value of this cue, imo) and they didn't give up the car - no one here believes that dealership isn't in legal jeopardy. Therefore, there's no difference. In fact, Bill's state (do a google search and you'll see) has very clear laws on running public contests (as opposed to lotteries/sweepstakes). I believe over $2500 (which this is clearly), very specific rules have to be followed (including having a winner). None of which Bill followed.
 
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This may be the funniest thing I have read on this forum in a long time.

You think people don't still get shot over 'honor'? Why don't you go to Oakland and spend some time in the ER? Better yet, walk into east St. Louis and insult some random residents standing on the corner drinking from paper bags at one in the morning.

Oh, but that must be a different kind of honor, right? Surely gangbangers have nothing in common with you ideal of the gentlemen of days past, right? Well, I mean other than effing shooting each other over slights.

Shooting a person isn't an act of courage; it is an act of selfishness usually perpetrated by a pussy with no integrity (whoa--see what I did there? I used your own pitiful words against your argument).

Grow up.

dld

You think gangs in Oakland are honorable??? That's all I need to know about your character.

What a ****in douche...

Jaden
 
Read the thread I just posted...

You missed my point--not surprising. Gangs in Oakland are certainly not honorable, but they are shooting each other for the same things that the duelists of old did--and you think they are honorable. Ipso facto, you are either a hypocrite or YOU think that gangs are honorable.

You can't have it both ways. If it is honorable to shoot someone over an insult in the 19th century, it must be honorable to shoot someone over an insult in the 21st century.

I don't think either is honorable.

dld

Read the thread I just posted and see if you think that they are even remotely comparable. It's not the act that's honorable or dishonorable, it is the method used to perpetrate the act. A person in the past could have declined the challenge and just lived as a coward and conceded the issue. The act themselves are cowardly as perpetrated by gangs, nothing honorable about it at all.

Jaden
 
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I'm surprised he try to raffle the cue design, and line his pocket, before running,lol.
 
My .02 cents: Who cares that no money exchanged hands, that is not the point at all.

A court of law would care. They would tell the "winner" that there was no consideration, therefore no contract now get lost.

And if after that the "winner" were to badger Mr. Stroud or defame him in a public forum the court would be likely to award a monetary damage to Mr. Stroud.

Get over this shit, it's over.

JC
 
A court of law would care. They would tell the "winner" that there was no consideration, therefore no contract now get lost.

And if after that the "winner" were to badger Mr. Stroud or defame him in a public forum the court would be likely to award a monetary damage to Mr. Stroud.

Get over this shit, it's over.

JC

You need to read up on the law. Consideration doesn't need to change hands to legitimize a contest. Contests are legal by submitting acts of skill (aka cue designs)...especially in Bill's state.

I think Bill is in hot water. His future is in Mhaimi's hands. Don't believe me... do your own checking...I did.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
I still can't believe this happened. Bill has absolutely no integrity if he doesn't remedy the situation. I would be thoroughly embarrassed if I was a family member or employee of his
 
I still can't believe this happened. Bill has absolutely no integrity if he doesn't remedy the situation. I would be thoroughly embarrassed if I was a family member or employee of his

And i can't believe there are folks here still defending him:eek:
 
You need to read up on the law. Consideration doesn't need to change hands to legitimize a contest. Contests are legal by submitting acts of skill (aka cue designs)...especially in Bill's state.

I think Bill is in hot water. His future is in Mhaimi's hands. Don't believe me... do your own checking...I did.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Hot water? His future? Get a grip man. His DNA isn't on a murder weapon for god's sake. He reneged on a contest he threw out there. Are you people so bored with your lives to care this F'ing much as the hatred in this thread? Bill could throw together that cue in a day and ship it with the design painted on a sneaky pete. Then will he be sued over low quality? No one lost anything here other than Bill's credibility, which is his to lose. Apparently he doesn't miss it. Neither should any of you. Let's cut off his balls and pour kerosene in the hole and then lynch him. Would that quiet the mob?

JC

Edit: Since Bill ran the contest as a going out of business deal of his corporation which subsequently did just that, good luck making Bill the man do a damned thing. That's why people have corps. I don't need to read up on the law to know that.
 
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Hot water? His future? Get a grip man. His DNA isn't on a murder weapon for god's sake. He reneged on a contest he threw out there. Are you people so bored with your lives to care this F'ing much as the hatred in this thread? Bill could throw together that cue in a day and ship it with the design painted on a sneaky pete. Then will he be sued over low quality? No one lost anything here other than Bill's credibility, which is his to lose. Apparently he doesn't miss it. Neither should any of you. Let's cut off his balls and pour kerosene in the hole and then lynch him. Would that quiet the mob?

JC

Edit: Since Bill ran the contest as a going out of business deal of his corporation which subsequently did just that, good luck making Bill the man do a damned thing. That's why people have corps. I don't need to read up on the law to know that.


Pointless...... nevermind
 
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Let's cut off his balls and pour kerosene in the hole and then lynch him.

Wow, you're taking this to a whole new level. We were just trying to lay a guilt trip on him and now you want to turn him into a camping lantern hanging from a tree. You're scaring us.
 
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No one has brought it up but some of you are aware that I have a small wager with my pal iba over whether Bill will complete this cue by year's end. I already lost once with it not being done by June.

So there will be no appearance of impropriety over this thread going up, I will make the following pledge and would do it in a transparent way for all to see:

If the cue were to be made and I won, I would give the winnings to charity PLUS I would match it so the charity will receive the bet x 2. :)

I have no concern over your motives whatsoever. I would much rather find out Bill honored his word than worry about the little bit of money you and I have involved.

I previously would have jokingly given you crap about starting another thread, but at this point I am happy to see anyone still caring and still calling out Bill Stroud. This was the point of me "putting my money where my mouth is" and betting to begin with.

Probably 50 people took up for him in the beginning but you were the only person to accept a bet on it. Now it appears only a couple people are willing to defend him now. I hope he sees how this has tarnished everyone's view of him. Anyone can say let it go, but when they see him they will still think, "There goes Bill Stroud, legendary cuemaker and general all around scam."
 
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