boys v. girls

sunnyone

sunnyone

cum grano salis
Silver Member
any time you want to hear dudus americanus in full-throated roar, just mention that someday women pool champs will be beating men champs.

now whether this will ever happen, this deponent knoweth not. i guess nobody does, really?

a couple of disadvantages for girls: physical strength on the break for some games. and -- usually being shorter -- having to use a bridge more often.

but it seems possible that a jasmin, or some young girl we haven't yet heard about, could do it someday.

i'm confident that the forum will provide a full and fair ventilation of all aspects of this most serious subject!

sunny
 
sunnyone said:
any time you want to hear dudus americanus in full-throated roar, just mention that someday women pool champs will be beating men champs.

now whether this will ever happen, this deponent knoweth not. i guess nobody does, really?

a couple of disadvantages for girls: physical strength on the break for some games. and -- usually being shorter -- having to use a bridge more often.

but it seems possible that a jasmin, or some young girl we haven't yet heard about, could do it someday.

i'm confident that the forum will provide a full and fair ventilation of all aspects of this most serious subject!

sunny
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Maybe Travis Trotter would have the best answer?
 
with the fast cloth these days and balls that have more bounce to them, strength is not near as important as as it was 30 years ago on slow equipment, so its very possible that a woman could win a big tounament now days. 30 years ago the girls(except Jean balukas) didnt have a chance. and on 7' fast tables the girls really have a good chance. the new equipment has opened the door for the girls, I'm looking foward to seeing the US Open this year and how well the girls do,

I believe that Jasmine has the same type of muscle fiber make up that Jean Balukas has. its the right amount of fast twitch and slow twitch red muscle fiber, and alos the same bio mechnic's where her ligments and tendons are inserted into their skelitons giving them superior strength compaired to most other females. Which makes them stronger than almost all other females. It can work the other way too, when I was into body building for my size I am very weak. The human body is a interseting topic. Who was it Spud Webb who could slam dunk the basket ball and was under 6' tall??? that is compairable to Jasmine.
 
sunnyone said:
any time you want to hear dudus americanus in full-throated roar, just mention that someday women pool champs will be beating men champs.

now whether this will ever happen, this deponent knoweth not. i guess nobody does, really?

a couple of disadvantages for girls: physical strength on the break for some games. and -- usually being shorter -- having to use a bridge more often.

but it seems possible that a jasmin, or some young girl we haven't yet heard about, could do it someday.

i'm confident that the forum will provide a full and fair ventilation of all aspects of this most serious subject!

sunny
Click to expand...

i wouldn't say it can't be done but the # of women that can compete at the upper echelon of mens pool is probably going to be pretty small.

i've met chicks when i was in the corps that were so hardcore it was crazy. i met 1 chick that used to pack up her pack and go hike around base just for the hell of it. my friend tori is more likely to get into a bar fight and win than i am:eek: she keeps it that real! women that're that competitive just seem to be more rare
 
Fatboy said:
Who was it Spud Webb who could slam dunk the basket ball and was under 6' tall???
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While there are a number of guys under 6' tall that can dunk, Spud won the NBA slam dunk crown (an All Star weekend event) against high fliers that the winner a majority of the time was/is 6'6" + . Spud's height - 5'7" tall!! :cool:


BTW, to the thread starter Sunny - BOYS and GIRLS are terms best used for males and females under the age of 18....even college teams use the terms MENS and WOMENS teams :p
 
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Alex Pagulayan, Dennis Orcullo, these guys are not tall nor are they bulked up muscular guys. Both are considered to be right at the top of the pack in regards to skill in pool.

Strength means diddly squat in pool, in fact alot of people think getting too bulked up is in fact a negative as it reduces the fluidity of the stroke. Strength is not the key to a powerful break, speed is. It does not take a large amount of strength to accelerate a 17 ounce break cue through the cueball, the speed and thus power comes mostly from timing and technique.

There is no reason a woman cannot create the technique and timing to break just as well as Alex, they simply have not done so as yet. Women like Karen Corr and Allison suck at breaking in pool for the same reasons that Ronnie O'Sullivan and other snooker players do, they are too conservative in their motion and lack the technique and timing required for a powerful break. The same conservative stroke they use on the break also makes it tough for them to pull out the rare occasional shots that the top male players can manage to get out of trouble. Allison is NEVER going to stroke a ball like Cory Deuel did on that 4-ball in the often posted video, her stroke is as straight as anyone but it has nowhere near that level of power, and that power does not come from physical strength, it comes from technique.

Efren Reyes never broke great but he played well enough to overcome a less then great break relative to other pros to dominate pool for a long time. He is not a tall guy nor is he a strong guy, he is the prime example of both of those elements not being required to reach the top of this sport.

Will a woman come along who can reach the top? Maybe, I don't think she exists on the tour right now, Jasmine is about the same age as Wu and she is a long long way behind him already. IMO Yu Ram Cha is every bit as good as Jasmine as far as the women go in rotational pool, and she is also not there. For every good up and coming female player we are seeing male up and coming players who are just better. The new Russian kid Ruslan Chikanov or whatever his name is seems to atm already be playing better then any woman in any age range.
 
sunnyone said:
any time you want to hear dudus americanus in full-throated roar, just mention that someday women pool champs will be beating men champs.

now whether this will ever happen, this deponent knoweth not. i guess nobody does, really?

a couple of disadvantages for girls: physical strength on the break for some games. and -- usually being shorter -- having to use a bridge more often.

but it seems possible that a jasmin, or some young girl we haven't yet heard about, could do it someday.

i'm confident that the forum will provide a full and fair ventilation of all aspects of this most serious subject!

sunny
Click to expand...
First let me say I like your writing style. As to the question, I believe I will live long enough to see a woman snap off a major before I die (almost 70 now). Like fatboy and others in other theads on this very subject have pointed out, you don't need to be the Queen Kong of women to spread the balls out in any game other than maybe 10-ball. With the WPBA not having many events, more pro women will venture out to play in the open events...and that's a good thing for women and pool. Jasmine is probably the favorite to do it first, but there are another half dozen on the WPBA that given a good draw, a few good rolls, and on a day that she brings her "A" game it will happen someday. There are probably 100's of young girls in training in Aisa and Europe that will become as good as Jasmin or better in a few years. One that comes to mind is Shu-Han Chang. Johnnyt
 
At the top levels I think the men have a definite advantage. That's not to say a woman could never take down a big event, but I think the occurrence as of right now would be somewhat isolated and rare. It just seems to me that at the top level the men are better than the women.

Before I get flamed - I don't think that gender has anything to do with it. It's just a numbers game. Historically pool has been a guy thing and to date there are way more men that play the game than women. So it just stands to reason statistically that the best will predominantly be men. There is an analogy in motorcycle road racing. There are some very good females riders, some professional. But there are just so many more men that race motorcycles that you just don't see a female in the winner's circle of the Daytona 200 or a MotoGP event (yet).

As has been pointed out though, the numbers game is changing. More women are picking up the game, especially it seems in certain foreign countries. And since there is little in the way of gender advantage to the game of pool, the future may bring more women at the very top taking down major events. If the population of pool players was evenly split between male and female then I so no reason why women wouldn't eventually take down major events with the same frequency as men.
 
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Johnnyt said:
I believe I will live long enough to see a woman snap off a major before I die or better in a few years. Johnnyt
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You must've drank from the fountain of youth because this will never happen. Women can't fade the pressure. The top women in the world can't beat local male pros for the cash let alone the best players on the planet. Are we watching the same pool?
 
sunnyone said:
any time you want to hear dudus americanus in full-throated roar, just mention that someday women pool champs will be beating men champs.

now whether this will ever happen, this deponent knoweth not. i guess nobody does, really?

a couple of disadvantages for girls: physical strength on the break for some games. and -- usually being shorter -- having to use a bridge more often.

but it seems possible that a jasmin, or some young girl we haven't yet heard about, could do it someday.

i'm confident that the forum will provide a full and fair ventilation of all aspects of this most serious subject!

sunny
Click to expand...

Let's see, you've started threads about aiming systems, shoes, and now men vs. women. I may have missed other ones? I figure your next thread might be about low deflection shafts? ;) New material please............
 
curveballs

It's a common topic on this forum and I've seen some interesting replies over the years. 95% of the responses fall into the same categories (guys are stronger, or there's no reason a woman can't do it, or guys are brought up to be more competitive vs. girls being team players, etc)...
====

I'd like to challenge some of the responders here to throw a curveball in the discussion. You don't have to believe it, just throw it out there.

Here's mine: An interesting documentary I saw recently discussed some of the differences in how men and women think, at a deep level. One of the theories had to do with how girls navigate. Throw some kids in a hedge maze, and the boys will try to get a logical overview of the whole maze from a higher position, or use the sun. Girls remember landmarks and sort use a sort of verbal recitation of the landmark as the trigger for their memory.. "ok this is the round donut part, I was gonna go left at the donut".

Maybe it's a fundamental brain wiring thing. Seeing the overview of the pool balls is not unlike the overview of the hedge maze. Maybe guys just see the routes/position plan better. The girl method of thinking about this stuff may not lend itself to visualizing pool patterns.

Curveball #2 - some stuff is perceived as 'guy sports', like football. Occasionally a girl will be into it either because she genuinely enjoys it or because she wants to go against the stereotype and challenge people's assumptions. I think only the first kind will ever become a high level player. If such a girl goes to the pool hall to mold herself into such a player, she is facing probably a 10-to-1 ratio of male players to female players. Note the word players. We're not counting girls who are there for social reasons and could care less about the game.

Once that girl is there she must overcome some unique pressures:
Every few minutes a guy will hit on her, under the pretense of asking if she wants to play some. Every second, a guy is looking at her ass when she bends to shoot. Or at least that's what's in her head when she's trying to shoot. And of course some guys succeed in their efforts and get her out of the pool hall and on a date. If she's single, it's gonna be hard to stay that way for long. So if she gets into a relationship, does she keep on pool or is she now focused on the relationship? It's gotta be tough to tune all that crap out if you want to go to a pool hall and just practice and get better.
 
sunnyone said:
any time you want to hear dudus americanus in full-throated roar, just mention that someday women pool champs will be beating men champs.

now whether this will ever happen, this deponent knoweth not. i guess nobody does, really?

a couple of disadvantages for girls: physical strength on the break for some games. and -- usually being shorter -- having to use a bridge more often.

but it seems possible that a jasmin, or some young girl we haven't yet heard about, could do it someday.

i'm confident that the forum will provide a full and fair ventilation of all aspects of this most serious subject!

sunny
Click to expand...

no disrespect to the girls but it wont happen.
i play good but a lot of guys can beat me.
ill play any girl 15 ahead for whatever they would like.even
 
Johnnyt said:
First let me say I like your writing style. As to the question, I believe I will live long enough to see a woman snap off a major before I die (almost 70 now). Like fatboy and others in other theads on this very subject have pointed out, you don't need to be the Queen Kong of women to spread the balls out in any game other than maybe 10-ball. With the WPBA not having many events, more pro women will venture out to play in the open events...and that's a good thing for women and pool. Jasmine is probably the favorite to do it first, but there are another half dozen on the WPBA that given a good draw, a few good rolls, and on a day that she brings her "A" game it will happen someday. There are probably 100's of young girls in training in Aisa and Europe that will become as good as Jasmin or better in a few years. One that comes to mind is Shu-Han Chang. Johnnyt
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i don't. i get the feeling you're pretty old.
 
I suspect the dominance of the men over the woman will persist and it may have more to due with the difference in how each gender's brains are wired and possibly the impact of Testosterone levels, and other hormones. Although, I don't have even the slightest proof of this....just a hunch...
 
don't think the POWER factor is a factor at all....

I think the only factor is the Natural Killer Instinct in males, and more conservative instinct in females.

The only thing the women need to do to become in any way competitive vs the men is to PLAY THEM.

You can't beat someone, especially an opponent with tendencies and proponents very differient than yours.

The women are used to playing the game how they play it, when they play with the men more their games will evolve. AND VICE VERSA! Then men will learn to play safe more often in rotation style games IMOP, mens tendency to be offensive and womens tendencys to defensive will become more equal cross genders.

just my opinion,
Grey Ghost
 
DoubleD said:
I think you are right, at least for our lifetimes (I'm 33). I don't think it is a matter of lack of ability, tho.

I do believe that it is a matter of the number of boys (under 16) who play pool versus the number of girls of the same age. It is much more likely that a boy will play pool with his dad than it is that a girl will with anyone. If you rewind 30-80 years, you see that women just didn't go into pool halls. Thus, it is still outside of the social norm for a girl or young woman to play pool.

This all means that the naturally best female pool player probably hasn't practiced playing pool, whereas the naturally best male pool player probably has.

I've also seen many promising young ladies stop playing pool because they got involved with a guy who didn't play pool and couldn't stand the thought of his special blossom hanging out with a bunch of guys who shared her interest in a game that he emasculates him.
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While you may be right - more boys start playing pool younger than girls, it definitely is NOT the reason why we will never see a woman win a men's major. Some girl who decides to stop playing pool because of her boyfriend was never going to contend in the first place. The majority of the top female players have all been playing most of their lives. Women just can't fade the pressure. They dog it.
 
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