Custom Cue Mythology

Since we have so many experts in this thread, are custom cases better?

BTW this is all meaningless because no 2 of us agree on the judgement criteria other than straight, but some of us would even argue howuch straight matters!

All in all, I love my customs, but the best pool in my life was played on a 300 Mali!
 
I answered his questions early on

I answered his questions early in this thread. It became obvious that he was going to play childish games with no appreciation for facts or the truth so I walked away from the thread. There is an assurance of consistent quality and quality over the years with a well made custom cue that doesn't exist with a production cue.

As I said to begin with, you can get a production cue as well made as a custom cue, however it is a fluke if you do because the odds are very much against it. No way to fit a production to the same consistent tolerances at anywhere near the same price points and no way to cut a cue in one or a few passes and it be the same consistent quality as a cue taken down bit by bit and allowed to stabilize between each cut. I linked to video and pictures proving my points about production cues. When that is dismissed it is obvious that we are dealing with a troll and not someone asking a serious question.

A custom cue builder has far less overhead in a cue with little or no office staff, no sales staff, and no shareholders to contribute to costs. Cutting out much of the overhead and middle men you usually get more bang for your buck from a custom cue builder. A larger portion of your money goes for actual workmanship and hours put into a cue and less to running a business. Of course custom or production you can be paying extra for a name and reputation. A name is worth something, how much is a question and largely dependent on why you are buying the cue.

Hu
 
Bola Ocho said:
8. No one has provided not a shred of evidence as to why custom cues allegedly play better, are allegedly more consistent, allegedly make you more balls etcetera over say, a quality, non-defective production cue.

No one shred of evidence. Not one single substantial argument. Nothing.
Click to expand...

Well in the first place the cue itself does not "play" at all. Yesterday I did a jump shot clinic and one of the first things I dd was to lay the cue on the table and tell it to jump balls.

It laid there and didn't do anything by itself.

There is in fact evidence out there. Both Meucci and Predator have defined deflection as one key performance metric. Both of these companies built devices to test deflection and both companies built cues that have "better" results on this metric as shown by their own testing.

So by using just deflection as one single aspect of a cue's performance it's clear that there are ways to make a cue perform better than another in given circumstances.

The second point is a question of what IS the lowest acceptable standard of construction to be considered a cue.

Your general point is that as a class of cues "custom" ones are not better than production ones in terms of performance.

Of course that general and broad statement is 100% accurate.

And in my time on this forum I can hardly recall any one saying that. In fact it's just the opposite in that the majority of the members say that they can play as well with a low cost production cue as they can with a $3000 custom cue. (individual results may vary).

My point is and remains that by nature there are inherent things about how cues are constructed that make them different and which make them PERFORM differently.

Your point was that a pro player won't miss balls because of the cue rather because of unfamiliarity. If we go back to deflection for a moment and assume that Predator and Meucci are right that deflection is a big deal and the reason for misses then it's certainly true that even a pro could miss because of inconsistent deflection in the cue.

All cue makers know that they can and do build cues that "play" like crap as well as can and do build cues that "play" lights out.

No one to date has put the research together to define and measure all characteristics of why cues feel the way they do and what effect that has on the cue to ball interaction. There has however been some work in this area which has led to greater understanding of deflection. The Jacksonville Experiment, Predator's testing, Meucci's testing, Dr. Dave's testing, the collaboration between Dave and Bob Jewett and their testing.

So in fact we know that a fiber ferrule and an ivory ferrule and a wood ferrule all feel differently, we know that a ferrule that is hollowed out and replaced with foam feels differently, we know that a ferrule with lead shot in feels differently.

We know that a cored cue feels differently than a non cored one. We know that a spliced shaft feels differently to a single-piece shaft.

And so on and so on.

The fact is that a $5000 Scruggs is not by default a cue that "plays" better than a $50 Sterling but the likelihood is that it does and the better the player the more in tune they are with how much better it is.

Now, as to WHY it's better, well no one is going to fund the research needed to tell you that but any good player can tell you what they think about it.

I will give you an example however that illustrates the point you are trying to make though, which is different from the one you started the thread over.

This is a reprint of something John McChesney printed on RSB years ago.

http://jbcases.com/caseblog/2009/02/22/what-is-the-hit-of-a-pool-cue/
 
Bola Ocho said:
There's nothing special about custom cues when it comes to playability.

It's all in people's head. There are materials, and then there is the application and design using those materials. There's no real scientific basis for why someone's custom brand "plays better"...assuming that refers to performance of the cue.

Custom cue makers are not implementing any kind of unique or special technology in construction/design that improves playability. Nor are they using special materials that do so.

What they use isn't much different than what is used in production cues. One difference is custom cue makers can source very high end premium cuts of wood. This only equates to a difference in aesthetic quality. That's about it.

I used to drink the custom cue kool aid, but not any longer. They aren't (from a playability standpoint) any better than a quality mass produced cue. But in some cases worse than production shafts.

That said, what constitutes good playability has nothing to do with the origin or brand of the cue. It all has to do with consistency and a few other criteria. There are many custom cue shafts that aren't consistent.

People who think their custom cue plays better than decent quality production cue suffer from Excalibur Syndrome. Because it was made by the hands of some cue maker they worship in some little shop some where, and because there's hype the cue is great - doesn't mean it makes you make balls. Don't believe me? Then hand your magic custom cue to some APA SL3 and they'll show you how great it plays.

When you put a new cue in your hands and then play great initially with it, you're experiencing what is known as the Placebo Effect. You think the cue is making you play better when it's really all in your head.

However, this effect predictably and eventually wears off. At which point the individual searches out the next great magic cue that will take them to the next level. Hence, the never ending search for the Excalibur cue that will make their game great.

A step toward improving one's game is to unsubscribe from such equipment based thinking and focus on the true source of one's game - themselves. That whole line of thinking is a major burden to carry around in your development as a player. It's unnecessary and harmful baggage.
Click to expand...


I agree 100% with one exception:

I believe that production cues at the Joss, McDermott, Viking and Schon, etc. levels are a must for a player who wishes to improve his or her game. Anything below that level of production cues may or may not be up to par--depends on the player. Probably in my head, I just play better with a Schon or Joss in my hand over a bar cue.


jed
 
Well I think the problem with proving Bola Ocho's statement is that the proof lies so obvious that it may even be overlooked by him, or considered by him to be common knowledge not worthy of mention.

So, let me ( if I may) be the first to offer proof of Bola Ocho's claim.

But first, lets reinforce and be clear that playability vs personal preference in terms of feel, balance etc. are TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ISSUES. I mean if one person likes the butt to be 1 1/4" diameter and the custom cue maker makes his 1 3/8th" diameter, (or whatever diameter they are) that doesn't make it play better it just makes it feel different. Some may like it, some may not.

I also want to say that I think anyone who enjoys collectable,custom cues are free to enjoy that hobby as are those who enjoy coin collecting, automobile collecting etc, etc. Custom and collectables are worth more, but that doesn't mean a beautiful 1967 Chevelle SS 396 rides any better than a 2010 production Cadillac.

Ok, here's the proof. Wood is wood. Custom cue makers as well as mfg. of quality production cues use seasoned wood. WOOD IS WOOD.

Glue is glue if it sticks things together without coming apart its "Good Glue".

The equipment used to produce production cues in major manufacturing plants would make the custom cue makers equipment look anemic in many cases to boot!

The glue that holds your tip on makes a good analogy. If you buy Krazy Glue that holds your tip perfectly without popping off, and ....... another guy uses his own special custom one of a kind concoction glue that hold the tip perfectly without popping off, is the custom glue better?

Wood is Wood, quality components are quality components that produce like products. This is COMMON SENSE.

The tip is what hits the cue ball and the same tip a custom cue maker puts on his cue is readily available for a mere few bucks.

That doesn't mean that they are not beautiful works of art and the time and effort that go into hand making one isn't worthy of a much higher price to those interested.


OK.... that's my offer on why I agree with the OP. NOW I suppose it's the turn of those with the opposite opinion. What's the logic that says different.
 
JB Cases said:
Well in the first place the cue itself does not "play" at all. Yesterday I did a jump shot clinic and one of the first things I did was to lay the cue on the table and tell it to jump balls.

It laid there and didn't do anything by itself.

There is in fact evidence out there. Both Meucci and Predator have defined deflection as one key performance metric. Both of these companies built devices to test deflection and both companies built cues that have "better" results on this metric as shown by their own testing.

So by using just deflection as one single aspect of a cue's performance it's clear that there are ways to make a cue perform better than another in given circumstances.

The second point is a question of what IS the lowest acceptable standard of construction to be considered a cue.

Your general point is that as a class of cues "custom" ones are not better than production ones in terms of performance.

Of course that general and broad statement is 100% accurate.

And in my time on this forum I can hardly recall any one saying that. In fact it's just the opposite in that the majority of the members say that they can play as well with a low cost production cue as they can with a $3000 custom cue. (individual results may vary).

My point is and remains that by nature there are inherent things about how cues are constructed that make them different and which make them PERFORM differently.

Your point was that a pro player won't miss balls because of the cue rather because of unfamiliarity. If we go back to deflection for a moment and assume that Predator and Meucci are right that deflection is a big deal and the reason for misses then it's certainly true that even a pro could miss because of inconsistent deflection in the cue.

All cue makers know that they can and do build cues that "play" like crap as well as can and do build cues that "play" lights out.

No one to date has put the research together to define and measure all characteristics of why cues feel the way they do and what effect that has on the cue to ball interaction. There has however been some work in this area which has led to greater understanding of deflection. The Jacksonville Experiment, Predator's testing, Meucci's testing, Dr. Dave's testing, the collaboration between Dave and Bob Jewett and their testing.

So in fact we know that a fiber ferrule and an ivory ferrule and a wood ferrule all feel differently, we know that a ferrule that is hollowed out and replaced with foam feels differently, we know that a ferrule with lead shot in feels differently.

We know that a cored cue feels differently than a non cored one. We know that a spliced shaft feels differently to a single-piece shaft.

And so on and so on.

The fact is that a $5000 Scruggs is not by default a cue that "plays" better than a $50 Sterling but the likelihood is that it does and the better the player the more in tune they are with how much better it is.

Now, as to WHY it's better, well no one is going to fund the research needed to tell you that but any good player can tell you what they think about it.

I will give you an example however that illustrates the point you are trying to make though, which is different from the one you started the thread over.

This is a reprint of something John McChesney printed on RSB years ago.

http://jbcases.com/caseblog/2009/02/22/what-is-the-hit-of-a-pool-cue/
Click to expand...

You have no idea how much I appreciate this analysis. I often wondered what a lot of old school player thougth about this subject and if there was a test such as the one done in the case you mentioned what the out come would be. You have answered my question and I thank you for the information. I have hit with a lot of cue both wood to wood, steel joint and phenolic and swore that I would not own another steel jointed cue because it hit to hard not knowing all along that it was the tip. I had considered the tip but dismissed it. I was really glad to see that this part of John McChesney Post "
70 players, nearly 55 liked the hit of two cues with different numbers: When the two were exposed, they both were sneaky petes, wood to wood joints, (one a Scruggs and the other a Huebler)". I love my Huebler that I pick up for $15.00 it hits like a torpedo. I love it so much that I had Steve Lomax clean it up for me at the cost of $175.00 and it is my primary cue now. Bottom line it all boils down to your game (Long distance shots or up close and personal) and the characteristic you like in a cue shaft(Whippy or stiff hit, low or no deflection). Thanks again.
 
Bola Ocho said:
Obviously :rolleyes:

Thankfully, there's a difference between opinion and fact.

Also, performance isn't opinion based. Imagine NASCAR or F1 making their choices in parts or modifications based on opinions. LOL. :wink: "um, I think that's faster, I felt it was!" ...."man, that engine sounds solid, it will be faster than our last one" :smile: Who needs timers? Just go by arbitrary subjective opinion! That's how we get progress!

There are some things that can be measured. Break cues can be measured for how much CB speed they generate. So can tips. Or various types of ferrules. Individual parts can be tested by having various controls and isolating the variable.


Science is a beautiful thing. There are too many flat-Earthers here.


Too many people here are being hypocrites. They wouldn't go doctor that thought like they did. Going by hunches, feel and not being able to prove anything.
Click to expand...


tonal quality of wood is another thing that can affect the hit of a cue....so the sound of a wood can let you know wether or not it will be good or bad in a cue. This can come in to play by affecting the resonating qualities of the cue, along with specific tapers compounded through out the cue stick can make the cue play BETTER. This is where your nodal points come into play on cue stick performance. The closer to the ends of the cue the nodal points are the striaghter its going to shoot to your true aim w/o adjustment for CB squirt.

Boobs,coochies, and cues are not all created equal and thats a fact...if you believe that then your hands and eyes and your other cue stick need checking by a qualified physician.

Productions mainly use inferior quality of wood compared to that used by quality custom cue makers, and it is not seasoned as well. Why do you think they came out with the spliced shaft technologies? Its not for a better performing shaft, its so that they would not have to cull wood like custom cue makers do. They can use lower quality maple and literally stabilize it with the splicing techniques, but the glue changes the quality of hit and feedback. The idea is not performance based, its cost effectivness based.
 
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Too much to read through but here is my thoughts

The custom cuemakers that I deal/have dealt with all have "seasoned" wood that they can trust. They build to suit the customer - whether it be design, balance, overall weight..etc... The process in which they cut the wood is set to a tolerance that they believe achieves the ultimate result. The process from start to finish is not days or weeks but more like months to years. Some of the processes are started before a order is even given. For example, the shafts by some of the most reputable cuemakers are cut at a periodic method with multiple quality checks (straightness, tone of wood, matching weight, etc...).

Mass produced cue is about prodution not quality for the most part. And while some mass produced cues are considered to be of quailty they will be only provide standards to the masses. Running wood through a machine is how I think of mass produced cues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyncnpjI384

Playability can never be tested to provide a exact answer of Y is better than X. I am sure SVB, Archer, Reyes can beat everyone that posted on this thread with a warped cue with a decent tip. They can adjust to their equipment - but I am sure they would perfer to play with what they know best and especially have things built to their specs when it comes to playing in a Tourny or for the $$$$.


Just my thoughts.
 
3andstop said:
Well I think the problem with proving Bola Ocho's statement is that the proof lies so obvious that it may even be overlooked by him, or considered by him to be common knowledge not worthy of mention.

So, let me ( if I may) be the first to offer proof of Bola Ocho's claim.

But first, lets reinforce and be clear that playability vs personal preference in terms of feel, balance etc. are TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ISSUES. I mean if one person likes the butt to be 1 1/4" diameter and the custom cue maker makes his 1 3/8th" diameter, (or whatever diameter they are) that doesn't make it play better it just makes it feel different. Some may like it, some may not.

I also want to say that I think anyone who enjoys collectable,custom cues are free to enjoy that hobby as are those who enjoy coin collecting, automobile collecting etc, etc. Custom and collectables are worth more, but that doesn't mean a beautiful 1967 Chevelle SS 396 rides any better than a 2010 production Cadillac.

Ok, here's the proof. Wood is wood. Custom cue makers as well as mfg. of quality production cues use seasoned wood. WOOD IS WOOD.

Glue is glue if it sticks things together without coming apart its "Good Glue".

The equipment used to produce production cues in major manufacturing plants would make the custom cue makers equipment look anemic in many cases to boot!

The glue that holds your tip on makes a good analogy. If you buy Krazy Glue that holds your tip perfectly without popping off, and ....... another guy uses his own special custom one of a kind concoction glue that hold the tip perfectly without popping off, is the custom glue better?

Wood is Wood, quality components are quality components that produce like products. This is COMMON SENSE.

The tip is what hits the cue ball and the same tip a custom cue maker puts on his cue is readily available for a mere few bucks.

That doesn't mean that they are not beautiful works of art and the time and effort that go into hand making one isn't worthy of a much higher price to those interested.


OK.... that's my offer on why I agree with the OP. NOW I suppose it's the turn of those with the opposite opinion. What's the logic that says different.
Click to expand...

Its great that you are interested and participate in this thread. However, there are some things it appears you have overlooked that when considered pretty much eliminate any consideration that your post is "proof" of anything.
First, you say:
"But first, lets reinforce and be clear that playability vs personal preference in terms of feel, balance etc. are TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ISSUES."

They are only two issues if you decide for scientific purposes to artificially separate them. Once again, cues don't play pool ever. Only people do. And people do not play pool without cues. The person and the cue are both interactive components of a system. "Playability" is the word used to describe the effectiveness of that system. As each person is unique, the optimum "playability" will come from the combination of each unique player and the cue that uniquely suits their play style and sensibilities.

Second, your essential point boils down to this: "the materials are the same, thus there will be no difference". I have trouble imagining how you overlook the vast multitude of methods for assembling those parts. If I glue the tip to the butt cap instead of the ferrule, I think the playability of a cue may change dramatically.

Third, I don't know what your background in logic and reasoning is. However, you might benefit to know that what you have presented is not what one would call a "logical argument". Your conclusion does not follow from your premises. In fact, you made the very common logical error of arguing from the conclusion. You state:

"The glue that holds your tip on makes a good analogy. If you buy Krazy Glue that holds your tip perfectly without popping off, and ....... another guy uses his own special custom one of a kind concoction glue that hold the tip perfectly without popping off, is the custom glue better?"

Here you are attempting to introduce as a premise a *presupposition* that
both glues function *perfectly*. The whole point of this thread is whether or not custom cues perform better than production cues. Thus you cannot offer that conclusion as your premise. This isn't proof. This is pretty much like me saying "because it is common sense that the earth is round, this therefore proves that the earth is round."

I'm happy to see people thinking about this. However, I would give it a bit more thought. No offense intended.

KMRUNOUT
 
Custom vs random

I've resisted posting on this thread for fear of being too passionate.
Well,here goes.....
I rarely play golf anymore but i have a top set of clubs.When my ball
ends up in the rough i know who put it there.
Can you imagine an elite force like Swat or the Green Berets going
into action with saturday night specials?
I was the 3rd owner of a cue made for Joey Spaeth in '71.
I had to have it! With a ball in the jaws of a corner pocket and the cue
ball 6in from the far end rail,i could draw 2 lengths of the table.I aint
no Larry Nevel.I could also do some of that Corey Duell stuff.
Joey told me the shafts were 2 years in the making - 1/10,000 of an inch
peeled off every few weeks.If any flaws were detected,the shafts ended
up as rungs in a railing at a pool room in Tom's River NJ.
The fore-arm was straight-grain maple,like the shafts.For power spin
the shafts have to give (otherwise the cue ball does) but they have
to keep snapping back to straight.
When you do business with a great cue maker you are not only paying
for the blood,sweat and tears,you are also paying for all the wood he
threw away.
I calculate that of the top 1,000 cues ever made,986 were made
by American custom cue makers.
...by the way...Joey's cue was made in Pennsylvania.........
...some guy by the name of GUS.....
 
Just like any skilled profession, be it a heart surgeon or a cue maker, there are a large number of people doing it and yet there are a select few that are the most skilled. While I do not know how to build a cue, nor can I tell you the exact specifics of what the top custom cue makers do that separates them from the rest of the cue makers, does it not seem logical that there is a cream of the crop, a best of the group?

Others in this thread have mentioned that they feel that it is very hard to tell the difference between cues. Put painters tape around them and see if they can pick out the custom vs the production is what Neil suggested. While I do not have a production cue, I did once test my cues with a good friend of mine who plays well but is totally ignorant of cuemakers. He just knows what to him feel like it hits good. He came to my house about 10 years back when the wife and kids were out of town and we played pool all weekend. At the time I was actively collecting cues and I let him test drive a group of about 15 cues. Southwest, Bender, Searing, Joss West, Omega DPK, Titlists by Scruggs etc were all there. At the end of the weekend I asked him which one he liked best and he thought about it for a while and then told me, Im Sorry Dave, I know you have all these fancy cues but I like this really cheap looking plain cue you have. He had pointed out my 4 pt plain Szamboti.

I understand completely all the arguments you make but if my buddy (who was playing at that time a speed that he beats the 9ball ghost) picked out the Szamboti, its no surprise to me that Gus Szamboti made his reputation on the playability of his cues first and foremost.
 
uwate said:
I did once test my cues with a good friend of mine who plays well but is totally ignorant of cuemakers. He just knows what to him feel like it hits good. He came to my house about 10 years back when the wife and kids were out of town and we played pool all weekend. At the time I was actively collecting cues and I let him test drive a group of about 15 cues. Southwest, Bender, Searing, Joss West, Omega DPK, Titlists by Scruggs etc were all there. At the end of the weekend I asked him which one he liked best and he thought about it for a while and then told me, Im Sorry Dave, I know you have all these fancy cues but I like this really cheap looking plain cue you have. He had pointed out my 4 pt plain Szamboti.

I understand completely all the arguments you make but if my buddy (who was playing at that time a speed that he beats the 9ball ghost) picked out the Szamboti, its no surprise to me that Gus Szamboti made his reputation on the playability of his cues first and foremost.
Click to expand...

Great story.
 
Bola Ocho said:
No no, YOU PROVE that MY claim is untrue. Go for it! :wink::wink::wink:


LOL, how's that for a taste of your own medicine?


Have a good night.
Click to expand...

I think the proof is that most top players - I'm talking "A" and above - locally and nationally, play with some sort of re-worked or custom cue. I honestly don't know any really good player around here who plays with an off the shelf producton cue.

I have no facts to support it, but my guess is 90% of the expert level players have some sort of custom cue. Now it doesn't have to be "a custom made cue" but my friends and people I play with all have customs, or they have a handle from one cue and a shaft from a custom maker, or after market shaft, or had a custom cue maker tweak the factory stuff.

Anyway, that's as close as I can come to proving it.

Chris
 
Bola Ocho said:
No no, YOU PROVE that MY claim is untrue. Go for it! :wink::wink::wink:


LOL, how's that for a taste of your own medicine?


Have a good night.
Click to expand...


Frankly I could care less what your opinion is on this subject, because no matter how you wrap it it is still nothing more than your opinion.

The Sun will still rise no matter the out come here Rumpelstiltskin, and nothing will be changed so have a wonderful day, and watch out for those falling Toad Stools they will make a mess out of you little fellow!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup::grin-square::p
 
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pt109 said:
Can you imagine an elite force like Swat or the Green Berets going
into action with saturday night specials?
Click to expand...

You do realize that this is a comparison that can't be related to the differences of custom cues vs. production cues?

Firearms can be scientifically proven to be more powerful, accurate, and reliable than their competition.

Cues are a straight piece of tapered wood with a joint on the middle and a piece of leather on the end. What makes a cue more desirable to some people cannot be scientifically quantified or measured. And even if we're talking about things that can be measured (like deflection), it all comes back to personal preference. One mans Holy Grail may be anothers worst nightmare.


There's not a thing in the world wrong with spending more money on a custom. You get a spectacular piece of art that is also a very good tool for playing pool with. But, in my opinion, there is something wrong with thinking that spending more money will give a person an edge at the table. I've seen too many guys pick up a house cue and run racks like it's subconscious for them to think otherwise.
 
Vote on it

TATE said:
I think the proof is that most top players - I'm talking "A" and above - locally and nationally, play with some sort of re-worked or custom cue. I honestly don't know any really good player around here who plays with an off the shelf producton cue.

I have no facts to support it, but my guess is 90% of the expert level players have some sort of custom cue. Now it doesn't have to be "a custom made cue" but my friends and people I play with all have customs, or they have a handle from one cue and a shaft from a custom maker, or after market shaft, or had a custom cue maker tweak the factory stuff.

Anyway, that's as close as I can come to proving it.

Chris
Click to expand...

OK - I'm doing a Poll here- let's find out:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=180118
 
pt109 said:
I've resisted posting on this thread for fear of being too passionate.
Well,here goes.....
I rarely play golf anymore but i have a top set of clubs.When my ball
ends up in the rough i know who put it there.
Can you imagine an elite force like Swat or the Green Berets going
into action with saturday night specials?
I was the 3rd owner of a cue made for Joey Spaeth in '71.
I had to have it! With a ball in the jaws of a corner pocket and the cue
ball 6in from the far end rail,i could draw 2 lengths of the table.I aint
no Larry Nevel.I could also do some of that Corey Duell stuff.
Joey told me the shafts were 2 years in the making - 1/10,000 of an inch
peeled off every few weeks.If any flaws were detected,the shafts ended
up as rungs in a railing at a pool room in Tom's River NJ.
The fore-arm was straight-grain maple,like the shafts.For power spin
the shafts have to give (otherwise the cue ball does) but they have
to keep snapping back to straight.
When you do business with a great cue maker you are not only paying
for the blood,sweat and tears,you are also paying for all the wood he
threw away.
I calculate that of the top 1,000 cues ever made,986 were made
by American custom cue makers.
...by the way...Joey's cue was made in Pennsylvania.........
...some guy by the name of GUS.....
Click to expand...

Whoa! Not many people know that when Tony built the Ballroom in Toms River NJ that the couple hundred shaft blanks that make up the railings were the one's that Gus would not use.These are full blanks not turned at all. Somehow Gus knew before he turned them that they were not up to his standards. Rumor was he weighed them but he was pretty closed mouth about how he built cues.
 
Bola Ocho said:
Obviously :rolleyes:

Thankfully, there's a difference between opinion and fact.

Also, performance isn't opinion based. Imagine NASCAR or F1 making their choices in parts or modifications based on opinions. LOL. :wink: "um, I think that's faster, I felt it was!" ...."man, that engine sounds solid, it will be faster than our last one" :smile: Who needs timers? Just go by arbitrary subjective opinion! That's how we get progress!

There are some things that can be measured. Break cues can be measured for how much CB speed they generate. So can tips. Or various types of ferrules. Individual parts can be tested by having various controls and isolating the variable.


Science is a beautiful thing. There are too many flat-Earthers here.


Too many people here are being hypocrites. They wouldn't go doctor that thought like they did. Going by hunches, feel and not being able to prove anything.
Click to expand...

Wonder why Nascar or F1 doesn't use stock engines, suspension and frames, or a good street racer wants a blueprinted engine? Same reasoning in a cue...higher tolerances equals higher performance. Mass produced cues just don't maintain these exacting tolerances. This isn't rocket science, nor is cue building, or blueprinting a motor. In my opinion, it is hypocritical not to acknowledge this, as pointed out by many in this thread. Pot-kettle?
:p
 
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