Do you enjoy watching pool on tables with tight pockets?

[Icon of Sin]

I think I hate polls... because the OP normally never puts the choice I want to click on up there.

I enjoy watching pool on tight tables, but I dont enjoy watching the players miss.

In this case my choice would be:

I enjoy watching the players bear down and make incredible shots on really tough equipment.

 

[sfleinen]

I think I hate polls... because the OP normally never puts the choice I want to click on up there.

I enjoy watching pool on tight tables, but I dont enjoy watching the players miss.

In this case my choice would be:

I enjoy watching the players bear down and make incredible shots on really tough equipment.

That's because the polls are WIRED. Meaning, they're saturated with bias on the part of the poll creator.

I like your "Yes, because ..." option as well. I too like to see players bear down, and *still* runout on tight-pocketed tables, because... they can. As Dennis O. capably demonstrated against SVB!

-Sean

 

[poolguy4u]

I think I hate polls... because the OP normally never puts the choice I want to click on up there.

I enjoy watching pool on tight tables, but I dont enjoy watching the players miss.

In this case my choice would be:

I enjoy watching the players bear down and make incredible shots on really tough equipment.

:thumbup:

I was thinking the same thing. If the balls aren't going in, then the pro might not be a pro.

This isn't golf...where you got to get it close, then make it on your next shot, although this is how I teach a beginner to play 8 ball.

:smile:

 

[alstl]

I don't wanna see guys playing on SUPER tight equipment but also don't wanna watch them running 12 packs on 4 7/8 pockets either. I don't know what the right pocket size is but I don't think the ones @ Hardtimes that Orcullo/SVB played on last night.

I believe the announcers said they were 4" pockets.

Hard to attract a wider audience, much less a television contract, when the best players in the world look like that.

 

[Okie]

I believe the announcers said they were 4" pockets.

Hard to attract a wider audience, much less a television contract, when the best players in the world look like that.

In my opinion two of the best players in the world looked damn good on those tight tables! (thanks POV!!)

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

In my opinion two of the best players in the world looked damn good on those tight tables! (thanks POV!!)

That's the point. When you watch all the streamed matches over the course of 3 days you are going to see some players that just aren't at the top level. So you are going to see them struggle. Perhaps even more importantly, the tough equipment even illustrated the difference between the best players and those that are close, but not quite at that level.

Of course, I wouldn't want to watch a straight pool tournament played on these tables because it wouldn't necessarily produce the two best 14.1 players that week. But for 9 Ball or 10 Ball I like it.

 

[tommyceilings]

The funny thing is that if you can actually do the same on the right table, find that table and you will have no shortage of players to play.

For all the players who think that they can do the exact same things,above still applies, you can get played by someone until you're blue in the face.

Honestly, players running packages like nothing gets old quick, hell I can do the same on the right tables.

What I like to see is pros out of their comfort zone because that's when the truly strong players shine. This happens a lot more often on difficult tables.

 

[sjm]

I've always found myself somewhere in the middle of this debate.

In a gambling match, of course, the participants should have final say on what equipment will be used.

In a tournament, however, I think that pool should adopt the same view as golf. The toughest conditions are saved for the biggest events in golf. It would be a little bit ridiculous if pro golfers faced US Open or British Open rough every week of the year and if the greens were always as tough as those at Augusta National (site of the Masters), it would also be ridiculous.

Golf gets it, pool doesn't. The toughest condtions are appropriate for the biggest events on the biggest stages, but ar enot appropriate week in and week out.

The TAR match between Hundal and Dominguez was a good example of how bad even world class players can look on really tough equipment.

 

[Chi2dxa]

Nope, NaDa,Hell to The No!!!

 

[Masayoshi]

The funny thing is that if you can actually do the same on the right table, find that table and you will have no shortage of players to play.

For all the players who think that they can do the exact same things,above still applies, you can get played by someone until you're blue in the face.

Actually I do get played, unfortunately its only by the guys that can also do the same. There is nothing special about running racks on an easy table, which is why watching pros do it is just stupid. Its like watching Tiger Woods play minigolf.

 

[JC]

I believe the announcers said they were 4" pockets.

Hard to attract a wider audience, much less a television contract, when the best players in the world look like that.

The announcers did say that but does anyone know the truth? How the pockets were set up and by whom? Angles in and down? After they said that I paid pretty close attention and my guess is the pockets are not that small on those tables. Tight yes but they looked closer to 4 1/4 to me. Anyone who has surveyed the tables with a measuring device please weigh in. Everything else is just here say.

JC

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

The announcers did say that but does anyone know the truth? How the pockets were set up and by whom? Angles in and down? After they said that I paid pretty close attention and my guess is the pockets are not that small on those tables. Tight yes but they looked closer to 4 1/4 to me. Anyone who has surveyed the tables with a measuring device please weigh in. Everything else is just here say.

JC

This is fact - the pockets on tables #1 ( the stream table) and table #6 (the one to the left) are 4", and not a steenth over that. The other 8 tables in the tournament room that you could see in the background are 4 1/4". The tables on the other side are more normal recreational size (4 3/4"). On a normal day, these are the two serious one pocket tables at Hard Times. It is hard to really appreciate on the stream. But I've measured them. And the pockets on my GC at home are 4 1/4" and these two tables are definitely smaller.

They are set up by Ernesto Dominguez, with help of course, from Oscar. I can't tell you precisely all the different angles Ernesto uses, but his facings are cut a little more closed than say a Diamond or for sure an Olhausen. What I mean is the way the facings are cut the pocket resembles more of a "U" shape rather than a "V". I would guess the facings are no more the 140 degrees.

 

[jaybanthony]

I watched the final of the Hardtimes tourney and Dennis Orcullo put on a clinic on SVB on that "tight" table. You would not know that table was tight the way Dennis was shooting on it.

He was "running racks" and not "missing lots of shots" on that "tight" table.

If other players cannot do the same on such equipment then maybe they should "NOT" be running racks like Orcullo because it seems he is obviously better and that disparity in skill should be visible in the results and not masked by easy equipment that lets everyone with a good break run out.

Agree 100%

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

el posto duble.........

 

[Celtic]

Tight pockets need to play like normal pockets do, only tighter. Sounds simple enough but it appears difficult to produce.

It has been an issue in the past but I think diamond has pretty much nullified that arguement given how "true" the TAR table plays with 4 1/8th inch pockets.

 

[Slh]

Pagulayan made the pockets look buckets in the previous hard times tournament too.
If pros are struggling in these tables means only two things: or they had a bad day or they are not at the same level of other players.

 

[CreeDo]

I think a standard diamond is tight enough.

The theory seems to be that some top pros have like an extra 5% accuracy when they 'bear down' vs. other top pros, and their tiny extra bit of superhuman accuracy proves Player A is better than Player B. Like tight tables separate the men from the boys.

I think the truth is, both players have normal human eyes and coordination, and have both put in tens of thousands of hours, and on some days Shane might rattle fewer balls than Dennis, and on other days Dennis rattles fewer than Shane. There is no super breed of pro who controls where the object ball goes to within a half inch, vs. someone else's 3/4".

Strictly speaking about entertainment value, seeing fewer run racks and seeing routine shots rattle out doesn't do a thing for me. They don't shrink the hoops in the NBA or the cups in the PGA.

 

[atthecat]

I enjoy watching the pros on 4'' GCs. They really have to focus and dial it in. More drama. I DON'T want to see Shane run 12 racks on a 4.5'' or 4.75 table.
The pros should play on pro equipment, which to me would be a GC at 4'' (Ernesto Style) or a Diamond at 4.25" (RKC style).

 

[Barioni Cues]

Does any one know how to set a table up right any more?

I believe the analogy pointing out that one pocket is best played on tight pockets is entirely backwards... You actually want to play one pocket on double or single shimmed tables... Here's why:

One pocket is all about moving (sort of)... If the move simply becomes push the cue ball downtable and leave a long shot into a 4" pocket, how hard is it to "move" after all?? There is so much more to the game when you cannot afford to leave your opponent a peek at their hole versus knowing they won't shoot anything into a tight pocket from more than 4 feet away. It becomes retarded.

I prefer a double shimmed pocket for every game as it gives you the flexibility of a wider pocket for shooting games, yet is tight enough that you have to shoot well to make anything. Personally, I have a Diamond Pro-Am with 4" pockets and I have no problem with any game on it, but I feel it takes away some shots and makes beating people too easy.

That is one of the problem with pool in general. Table mechanics want to take the cheap and easy way out and table owners don't want to pay to have it done right. Double facing the pockets even with the 1/4" facings change the way the pocket plays. It is much better to extend the wood and put new rubber. The new rubber covers the extended wood rail and this allows you to use a single this facing that shows no facing lines through the cloth and makes the pocket play the way their supposed to. In addition it is easier to keep the 12 degree to 15 degree vertical angle of the facing more accurate. Tight pockets offer more safety play as more players lay up because the tighter pockets lower the percentage of tougher shots. I like to see great defensive play. Any one can run racks on buckets!

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I think a standard diamond is tight enough.

The theory seems to be that some top pros have like an extra 5% accuracy when they 'bear down' vs. other top pros, and their tiny extra bit of superhuman accuracy proves Player A is better than Player B. Like tight tables separate the men from the boys.

I think the truth is, both players have normal human eyes and coordination, and have both put in tens of thousands of hours, and on some days Shane might rattle fewer balls than Dennis, and on other days Dennis rattles fewer than Shane. There is no super breed of pro who controls where the object ball goes to within a half inch, vs. someone else's 3/4".

Strictly speaking about entertainment value, seeing fewer run racks and seeing routine shots rattle out doesn't do a thing for me. They don't shrink the hoops in the NBA or the cups in the PGA.

Basketball is a team sport that is interactive with your opponent so no change in the court is required versus what you play on in gym class.

In golf they may not shrink the hole but they play from the pro tees. On top of being longer, the entire course is toughened up from what it is for normal play and even tougher still for the major championships. If you think the PGA professionals are playing on the same golf course the rest of us play on, you must not have played golf on a course before and after it is set up for a PGA tour event.