"Fatboy" Productions presents...(very serious post pls read)

If I did a event and made less than 1st but more than 2nd and below, is that wrong

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 13.8%

  • No

    Votes: 112 86.2%
  • Total voters
    130
Business is business. You are providing an event, purse and all the trappings that go with it. As long as the bills and the stated purse amounts are paid out promptly your personal profit should be of no concern to anybody.

Remember to set up an S-corp to give you a firewall and to keep the tax man at bay.
 
Fatboy said:
nothing!! for a long time but I'm headed and am very serious about it, I'm on the way now and putting together my advisors, players, vendors, supporters, media(later), and doing my best to win over my detractors, I cant do anything alone. But someday I will promote pool, when I have the cash flow(I did but its gone, just for now) and the time and a few more years older. I truely know I can make it work

I plan on Pro-events, I'm not a league guy, bar guy, or a tour guy like Mike Janice of Shannon. I have awalys loved pro-pool, I intend on making it profitable for everyone or I wont do it if I cant make $$$ after say 5 years. I refuse to do it for free, who works for free??, Its a labor of love in the sence I could make more $$ elsewhere, but when I get to the stage of life to promote pool it will be out of love more than $$$, but if its worth doing-its worth doing for $$$. :) This isnt going to be my living so once I get it right it will just repete itself, what my staff makes will be public too(public for players/staff only)

So lets say I do a massive tournment after I have alot of the pro-pool worlds confidence, and I will-thats not a concern, I have a plan. So suppose after all overhead and income there is $450,000(i know thats alot but just go with it for now) left for the purse and my end, Please read on from another post i just made:


When I do pool events(and I will) I'm going to use open book accounting for all the principals involved(TD, Asst TD, board members, my advisors, vendors, investors etc.) and when I lose $$ in the begginning how much I lose will be public, when I make $$-I will tell everyone, as I believe if its worth doing its worth doing for $$$ and will make no excuses for my pay check-it will never come at the expence of the players, it will come from the gate, TV, advertizers, sponsers, vendors and where ever else I can make it work. For example suppose the total $$ left for the purse and me is $450,000 (just a random number). If my players make $300,000 in a event and I make $150,000 I will let the world know, there is nothing wrong with making $$$, Its going to be my show and my choice to disclose my profit-why hide it???-that will be the standard for all my gig's. If I'm hated for making $150,000 and paying out $300,000, then I'm a bad guy but my players will KNOW they will be paid on the spot-as they will see the accounting at the players meeting. they should see it-hell they will know my end and why not? and know their end too. I will refund their $$, if they dont like me making $$$ etc.

I WILL NEVER TAKE A PENNY IN PROFIT UNLESS THE PLAYERS ARE GETTING WAY OVER 100% THE ENTRY FEE'S COLLECTED. I ONLY MAKE $$$ IF EVERYONE MAKES $$$ FIRST. Remember its awalys going to be open book, no bait and switch, I will get to a formula-might take 5, 10 years but I will. I might cap my profit margin too. PLAYERS AWALYS COME FIRST!!!! I'm going to ram the media for the $$$.

I do biz differently than others and have very different results . If I lose $$ for year after year that will be public too, I'm a open book guy-love me or hate me. I believe I can put $$$ in everyones pocket-my customers (gate, TV, advertizers, sponsers, vendors and where ever else I can make it work), my players and lastly myself. My cusromers will make $$$ in the long run too, as they are as important as the players. I'm smart I hire smarter, better people and empower them, thats the trick to my success, thus far.

I'm nobody special, I am just more creative and refuse to succomb to the general attitude of pool's negitivity(part of why I left pool years ago). But i'm not going to pay out $425,000 and make $25,000 as thats not worth my time. So the players and everyone will know Fatboy is gonna get fatter and pay everyone, all it is, is a redistribution of $$-nothing more. Problem is no one else sees it like that, so far as I have ever seen, but what else is it??? $$$ isnt created or destroyed at pool gig's. The IRS destroys $$ . So I have to tap into streams of $$ and redistribute some of it, harder said than done. But i will...

If I cant make it work, I will say so-pubically. I'm still a couple years away from this. But I just am reasearching things, public opinion,

POLL QUESTION: even if you dont like me pls answere honestly for the players, thanks EP

If I did a event and made less than 1st but more than 2nd and below, is that wrong?
Click to expand...

Nobody does anything for nothing. I fully believe this and the last time the pool world heard someone say they were autting on pool events for nothing {KT], it turned out to be one of the worst things that ever happened in pool. The American players haven't been right since.

To take it a little further, if you are the one to invest the most, I believe you should be the one to make the most. Hat is just the nature of good business.
KT swore he could care less and saidd that if it didn't work well, "we just had a big party for a couple of years>" We all know what kind of slippery peice of sh## he turned out to be.

The open book, that is your decision and not a bad idea. I think that all the players need to know, is that promised money is there and not some "pie in the sky" type of thing.

I wish you luck for you and the players.
 
Fatboy,

If what you do to promote the game works, I really could care less if you make MORE than 1st place cash. This sport needs a jumpstart from somewhere, and I think you've got the right idea. Hope it works out.
 
I think that if you do better than the person looking at what you have done there will always be complaining. People have to justify, to themselves, why you did better than they did and this usually results in some sort of personal attack on you. I think that you can anticipate that if you make $10.00 others well say you are lucky, a rip off artist, or do not support the sport, etc.

That is a sad but a very real fact of life. Many people will be happy for you, a few will be envious, and some will hate you. The few start rumors that others will discuss and people are more inclined to pursue the negative than the positive. Look into any newspaper for confirmation.

Your open book is a good idea but one that will lead to rumor and inuendo. Know that and live with it. Only you know why you do what you do and that should be sufficient.

If you know what is coming then you can prepare and can live with it.

I understand that Barry B made some sort of joke about jews at the US Open. The next day he had to come back and apologize to everyone. He then took five minutes to explain that he is not anti-semtic he is in fact of jewish descent and has no animosity towards his heritage. If it can be taken out of context some people will do so.
 
Last edited:
Fatboy (Eric) is one of the most unique characters I have met in my years on the pool scene. At heart he is the same kid I remember 20 years ago trying to be a shortstop. Like so many of us he still thinks he is a better player than he is. God bless him for that. I have tried to cure him of this, but to no avail.

But when it comes to business and what makes the world go round, he is a genius. He can dissect any deal and see what's underneath it and what makes it tick. He knows why some things work and others fail. I'm a pretty smart guy but when it comes to putting together a business plan he can give me the five ball, maybe more. It's no accident he got filthy rich.

One other important reason I remain close friends with Eric is that he has shown me honesty in all our dealings. He can drive a hard bargain, but you will always know where you stand with him. Don't think that because he has wealth he will throw his money away. It ain't gonna happen! And yet he is willing to gamble sky high if he likes the game. You won't out bet this guy, not even if your name is Bucktooth.

My wish is that Eric get well, and have his back problems healed once and for all. To me that is equally important as seeing him put on a big pool tournament. Maybe more so. I happen to like the man and know how much he suffers every day. I know he won't like me saying this publicly but you need to know that underneath all you hear and see, is a man suffering in acute pain every day. And it does have it's affect on him, whether he will admit it or not.

I look forward to helping Eric achieve some of the goals he has set for himself in the pool world. He has already accomplished more than I could imagine in a very short period of time.
 
Fatboy,
What you take in after all else is taken care of shouldn't be controlled by the purse.
After the PGA has a tournament, does anyone question the financials or profits of the directors of the tournament? And is it really anybody's business?
Sunday I went to a 3-hour football game. Ticket $80 Parking $20, concessions $20 (and that's only 2 beers and a dog).
Does that give me the right to ask the owner of the team to open his books? I don't think so.
I think the people who are saying that pool needs a strong central organization are the ones who understand what pool really needs to move to the next step.
 
Eric

You and I have talked for hours about what works and what doesn't work, what needs to be changed, and what has caused others to fail in the past - who caused it and why.

If you profit from this (in any way or in any amount), it is the mark of the ventures' success.I wouldn't explain or apologize about the bottom line to anybody. Right now we are at a point where we would have to jump to reach bottom.

We both know what Dana had to do to get the UFC where it is today. Everybody told Dana that he was wasting his time and energy trying to save a sport that would never and could never be marketed to the mainstream public. Three guys bought UFC when it was dead. It was over. The sport was dead and no one cared. 10 years later, businesses are tripping over each other and knocking each other to the ground in order to sponsor the UFC's PPV's.

Dana wasn't stupid, and he knew that if he could gain the assistance of Frank and Lorenzo, that he would get the start up capital (as well as inside networking capabilities with the Nevada State Athletic/Gaming Commission).

I bring this up only because after all of that, and after securing the services of guys like Mark Ratner - which IMO is the best hiring move ever made by Zuffa (sorry Rogan - lol) collectively they all had to sit down and find a way reinvent and re-market Mixed Martial Arts.

Look at it today.

Dana knows what he has, and he is not in the kneeling position looking for money from anybody - and I quote Dana White - "Look at how huge we are. I don't need f****** Coca-cola to keep doing what we're doing, man.

Dana understood that the promoters killed boxing by taking it off free television. He saw boxing as a roadmap of what not do and went in the other direction - flipping off the Wall Street know-it-alls that told him he was nuts.

By surrounding ourselves with people that share our vision, our work ethic, and our love for the game, we can do the same thing.

It can't be about the money. If you are doing anything "just for the money" then you can only go so far. This needs be done from the heart and soul - if you need some input on that, get with Dana and he can explain the reasons for this to you better than anyone in the world. I am sure you have heard Dana's quote - "I am a guy that did exactly what he wanted to do. When you do that, the money follows." Dana never talks about the money - its not what he's about.

Joe Rogan is also a great resource, and good guy and someone that was with the UFC organization when nobody gave a shitt about it. He stuck with it because of his love for the sport - and he is as much a part of their success as the fighter's (IMO - and isn't it strange that I haven't brought up fighters - YET)

The Fertitta's were a Nevada Casino family. Today, I believe most of their money is primarily invested in Zuffa.

We need to surround ourselves with people that have been through the building process and followed through until they succeeded - like Dana White. Abandon the old ideas. Griffin Vs Bonnar 1 was not something that could (or would) have been signed, or predicted. It is moments such as that where we need to allow the magic of pocket billiards to take over. The game has appeal, but you need to market players that play from their hearts, not their wallet.

You know that you can always call me if you need an idea or two, or if you just want to BS for a few hours about NPR stuff... have you ever noticed that you and I hardly talk about pool?

I know this post is long, all basically all it says is - study the successful people around you, and also study the unsuccessful people around you. From there you can chart your own course in either direction. In the past, pool has chosen the wrong path over and over again. Hopefully that will change. The UFC has gone through what pool is going through and they overcame the odds. We can too.
 
Last edited:
I'm dead set against it!!

I have to say I am dead set against it! The talk of redistribution and $$$ that is. Sounds a lot like a candidate that is trying to get in my wallet. As for the rest of it, that is how every other successful pro sport operates. When you see players getting huge salaries or playing for huge purses, they are making huge amounts for the promoters and the sponsors.

My biggest issue with pool is many seem to think someone should come along and dump a bunch of money into the pro's pockets purely for the love of the game. If I hit the power ball for hundreds of millions I still wouldn't do it because I would want something that was self sustaining too. That means profitable for all concerned.

You will have to tweak things as you go along but you already know that. Your general plan is far from unique, it is common throughout the sports world. There is one Catch-22, extracting big bucks from media. You have to have a product that you can sell to John Q Public to extract big bucks from media because they turn around and extract even more bucks from advertising. Bottom line, if you can't draw a large enough audience to sell products through advertising the whole deal is a house of cards and doomed to fail. This is the same thing I have said about every effort to take pool big so no surprise I say it here too. You have deep enough pockets to take a hit for a few years getting things off the ground if you need to so it may work.

I heard yesterday that the Steelers pro football franchise was once purchased for $2500, it's now worth almost a billion. Anything can happen but a solid foundation has to be built. I think you are going to have to come up with something a little different to make John and Jane Q Public take a look to begin with. Much harder to take a failed concept and make it successful than it is to start anew. My opinion, everything that has been on TV a lot already is a failed concept.

Good luck when and if you try this. It's going to take a lot of thought and planning because it isn't a venture that you would try purely from the perspective of making money. That should raise a lot of red flags for you.

Hu
 
tap, tap, tap........

I'll root for your success. While I enjoy events, promotions, live streaming, and all that sport oriented entrepreneurs GIVE to the sport. I just cringe every time I hear that they don't PROFIT from it personally. How can the sport progress if the promoters aren't allowed to profit?

I'd also keep the P&L to myself. It's Nobody's business, until you want to sell the rights.

Good luck.

td
 
That's obvious! A $1M winner take all tournament would NEVER EVER happen. Even Hopkins understands that, with his proposed $1M tournament. The $5000 entry scares off most players, but NOBODY would sign up, if it was only one person winning any money at all. Winner take all might work with a $10 entry tournament, but never for big money...too much risk.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Kimmo said:
..it might be an interesting proposition to see how the registration of players and attraction of sponsors and media would be different between a 1M$ Winner-Takes-All tournament vs. Winner100k$ top 32 paid.

Anyhow....not that I know anything about organizing tournaments! :)

cheers,
Kimmo
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't presume to know more than anyone else about business, but here is what I think.

The only thing wrong with the IPT concerned the broken promises that Trudeau made (no payment to players and staff at the last event, cancelled tournaments, no salaried IPT members as promised, etc.). The model, rules, and structure of the tournaments was pretty damn good, imo.

The presentation and entertainment value of these tournaments was superb. Trudeau was at first willing to lose money for a couple years to get it off the ground, but then became unwilling to lose any more money and basically stopped his commitment to the IPT. He broke promises, and destroyed the support he had. I was astonished that such a savvy businessman would do something so stupid.

But that does not mean that the fundaments of what he set up were broken. You have to be willing to lose money for the first few years. You can afford that, and that will give you time to build a loyal pool of players to your events. Running qualifiers is a great way to keep money coming into the system and eventually it can become profitable, particularly if you get some sponsors to add to the mix.

So, why not keep the fundamentals of the IPT model, but use your credentials, experience, honesty, and openness to avoid the self destruction that occurred with Trudeau's IPT.

...Oh, and my other message for my 1000th post: Get out and VOTE!!!
 
Eric,

Why don't you and Jay pool your resources and talents to put on the biggest / baddest pool tournament the world has ever seen???

Russ.....
 
Steve...Savvy businessman?:confused: Trudeau was, and is, a crook...plain and simple. His business tactics in other areas prove that beyond the shadow of a doubt. He never had any intentions of following through, for the benefit of the players. His ONLY goal was to sell off the IPT to an international gambling concern...and, no doubt, for a very comfortable profit for himself.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

beetle said:
I was astonished that such a savvy businessman would do something so stupid.
Click to expand...
 
i support it either way. just because of your caption under your name. atleast your being honest. i'd have a good sig, but i guess it's rude
 
Fatboy said:
nothing!! for a long time but I'm headed and am very serious about it, I'm on the way now and putting together my advisors, players, vendors, supporters, media(later), and doing my best to win over my detractors, I cant do anything alone. But someday I will promote pool, when I have the cash flow(I did but its gone, just for now) and the time and a few more years older. I truely know I can make it work

I plan on Pro-events, I'm not a league guy, bar guy, or a tour guy like Mike Janice of Shannon. I have awalys loved pro-pool, I intend on making it profitable for everyone or I wont do it if I cant make $$$ after say 5 years. I refuse to do it for free, who works for free??, Its a labor of love in the sence I could make more $$ elsewhere, but when I get to the stage of life to promote pool it will be out of love more than $$$, but if its worth doing-its worth doing for $$$. :) This isnt going to be my living so once I get it right it will just repete itself, what my staff makes will be public too(public for players/staff only)

So lets say I do a massive tournment after I have alot of the pro-pool worlds confidence, and I will-thats not a concern, I have a plan. So suppose after all overhead and income there is $450,000(i know thats alot but just go with it for now) left for the purse and my end, Please read on from another post i just made:


When I do pool events(and I will) I'm going to use open book accounting for all the principals involved(TD, Asst TD, board members, my advisors, vendors, investors etc.) and when I lose $$ in the begginning how much I lose will be public, when I make $$-I will tell everyone, as I believe if its worth doing its worth doing for $$$ and will make no excuses for my pay check-it will never come at the expence of the players, it will come from the gate, TV, advertizers, sponsers, vendors and where ever else I can make it work. For example suppose the total $$ left for the purse and me is $450,000 (just a random number). If my players make $300,000 in a event and I make $150,000 I will let the world know, there is nothing wrong with making $$$, Its going to be my show and my choice to disclose my profit-why hide it???-that will be the standard for all my gig's. If I'm hated for making $150,000 and paying out $300,000, then I'm a bad guy but my players will KNOW they will be paid on the spot-as they will see the accounting at the players meeting. they should see it-hell they will know my end and why not? and know their end too. I will refund their $$, if they dont like me making $$$ etc.

I WILL NEVER TAKE A PENNY IN PROFIT UNLESS THE PLAYERS ARE GETTING WAY OVER 100% THE ENTRY FEE'S COLLECTED. I ONLY MAKE $$$ IF EVERYONE MAKES $$$ FIRST. Remember its awalys going to be open book, no bait and switch, I will get to a formula-might take 5, 10 years but I will. I might cap my profit margin too. PLAYERS AWALYS COME FIRST!!!! I'm going to ram the media for the $$$.

I do biz differently than others and have very different results . If I lose $$ for year after year that will be public too, I'm a open book guy-love me or hate me. I believe I can put $$$ in everyones pocket-my customers (gate, TV, advertizers, sponsers, vendors and where ever else I can make it work), my players and lastly myself. My cusromers will make $$$ in the long run too, as they are as important as the players. I'm smart I hire smarter, better people and empower them, thats the trick to my success, thus far.

I'm nobody special, I am just more creative and refuse to succomb to the general attitude of pool's negitivity(part of why I left pool years ago). But i'm not going to pay out $425,000 and make $25,000 as thats not worth my time. So the players and everyone will know Fatboy is gonna get fatter and pay everyone, all it is, is a redistribution of $$-nothing more. Problem is no one else sees it like that, so far as I have ever seen, but what else is it??? $$$ isnt created or destroyed at pool gig's. The IRS destroys $$ . So I have to tap into streams of $$ and redistribute some of it, harder said than done. But i will...

If I cant make it work, I will say so-pubically. I'm still a couple years away from this. But I just am reasearching things, public opinion,

POLL QUESTION: even if you dont like me pls answere honestly for the players, thanks EP

If I did a event and made less than 1st but more than 2nd and below, is that wrong?
Click to expand...

I honestly don't understand the poll question; however, I think you already know, you have my support! That is, as long as you keep Kelly around :smile:
 
Scott Lee said:
Steve...Savvy businessman?:confused: Trudeau was, and is, a crook...plain and simple. His business tactics in other areas prove that beyond the shadow of a doubt. He never had any intentions of following through, for the benefit of the players. His ONLY goal was to sell off the IPT to an international gambling concern...and, no doubt, for a very comfortable profit for himself.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

OK, we know how you feel about Trudeau as a person, does that discount the IPT business model, or is it by default, devoid of all merit too?
 
We have to admit, KT put on some great shows and the players involved enjoyed HUGE purses. A $3,000,000 that is still shy of being paid off 100%.

But the tournaments prior to the Reno event were paid in full right after the tournaments were over.

I really liked what he did for the Hall of Famers in the first event.

The players that were paid must still like him,... just a little. And, he came close to pulling off a great sale....

BUT, he's still a crook.

Scott Lee said:
Trudeau was, and is, a crook...plain and simple. His ONLY goal was to sell off the IPT to an international gambling concern...and, no doubt, for a very comfortable profit for himself.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...
 
No, Steve...That's how I feel about Trudeau as a businessman. Anyone who preys upon the uneducated masses, by playing on their fears, is a scumbag businessman. What I feel about KT, as a person, is irrelevant.

Yes, the tournaments were flashy, and I did agree with some of the 'business model' that KT presented. I still believe he had no intention of following through, for the players' benefit, in the long run.

Oh...and to keep this thread on track...All in favor of Eric's project!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

beetle said:
OK, we know how you feel about Trudeau as a person, does that discount the IPT business model, or is it by default, devoid of all merit too?
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top