If not for The Color of Money.....
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I believe the "Balabushka" referred to in the Movie was JOSS!:wink:
:grin:
I believe the "Balabushka" referred to in the Movie was JOSS!:wink::grin:
Ok, but do you not think that the movie had an impact on the Balabushka name? It wasn't referred to as a Joss.
With ultimate respect for any cuemaker, IMHO, it makes an impact and a very positive one......movies have done the same for cars, cigs, and almost anything....product placement, planned or not, at the right moment in the right movie can make values skyrocket and boost popularity....
Huge, I would imagine it also had a major impact in the international cue collectors market, ie Japan. It would be impossible to reverse predict what it would have been worth without the name recognition received in the movie, but you can almost bet it moved the prices by at least 1 zero.
Chuck
Chuck
Your observation is 110% Correct, that is why when you see an Actor Drink a Coca Cola, or Driving a Chevrolet in a Mover, and or TV Show the Manufacture is Paying the Studio, or Production Company for using their PRODUCT!
but what came first...
...the chicken or the egg?
Balabuska cues were held in high regard prior to the movie being made, right?
I think the answer lies with the following questions:
What was an original Balabuska's worth, relative to other cue brands before the exposure it rec'd in C.O.M.? Then, once that percentage is determined, calculate how they compare now, percentage wise.
Of course, there are other factors that affect the price of collectable cues that must be considered, and, chief among them relating to this discussion would be supply and demand. If you attempt to make an accurate comparison of cue brand values, you must factor in how many Bushka cues were ever made (and survived to present day) vs. the same with other brands.
Then would you compare the Bushkas to Gus's which weren't mentioned in the movie, or Joss cues, but maybe just the vintage ones...maybe Palmer or Paradise?
It's gonna require a bigger spread sheet than I thought...
Merry widows or fancy? :wink:
Definitely, the movie didn't hurt bushka values, but I'm not so sure they wouldn't be where they are with or without C.O.M. imho...
Best,
Brian kc
...the chicken or the egg?
Balabuska cues were held in high regard prior to the movie being made, right?
I think the answer lies with the following questions:
What was an original Balabuska's worth, relative to other cue brands before the exposure it rec'd in C.O.M.? Then, once that percentage is determined, calculate how they compare now, percentage wise.
Of course, there are other factors that affect the price of collectable cues that must be considered, and, chief among them relating to this discussion would be supply and demand. If you attempt to make an accurate comparison of cue brand values, you must factor in how many Bushka cues were ever made (and survived to present day) vs. the same with other brands.
Then would you compare the Bushkas to Gus's which weren't mentioned in the movie, or Joss cues, but maybe just the vintage ones...maybe Palmer or Paradise?
It's gonna require a bigger spread sheet than I thought...
Merry widows or fancy? :wink:
Definitely, the movie didn't hurt bushka values, but I'm not so sure they wouldn't be where they are with or without C.O.M. imho...
Best,
Brian kc
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this might be the easiest way to gauge...
My post just above illustrates in a somewhat humorous way, the complexities that one might encounter if they tried answering the op's question with any degree of real accuracy. Probably too many variables to get-r-done. :wink:
Perhaps we really could get a good idea if we were to do a head to head price comparison of just Balabushka originals vs Gus Szamboti's cues, prior to C.O.M., just after C.O.M., and, finally, their current values.
I think the high end collectors would know, generally, where these two cuemakers prices were, relative to one another, during those time frames.
It seems to me, at least on the surface, that Gus's cue values remain pretty good despite not being mentioned in that movie.
My guess would be that C.O.M. likely provided a spike in interest and pricing for Bushkas but it has since leveled off.
Best,
Brian kc
My post just above illustrates in a somewhat humorous way, the complexities that one might encounter if they tried answering the op's question with any degree of real accuracy. Probably too many variables to get-r-done. :wink:
Perhaps we really could get a good idea if we were to do a head to head price comparison of just Balabushka originals vs Gus Szamboti's cues, prior to C.O.M., just after C.O.M., and, finally, their current values.
I think the high end collectors would know, generally, where these two cuemakers prices were, relative to one another, during those time frames.
It seems to me, at least on the surface, that Gus's cue values remain pretty good despite not being mentioned in that movie.
My guess would be that C.O.M. likely provided a spike in interest and pricing for Bushkas but it has since leveled off.
Best,
Brian kc
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John Wright has the answer.
If not for color of money
Ginormous, in 1987 Jimmy Mataya sold his Balabushka I think for $1500.00 and it was then put up for sale for $2500.00
Hubert Cokes {Daddy Warbucks} Bushka sold for 600.00 a couple of years earlier.
Now the cardboard box it came in is worth $2500.00
Ginormous, in 1987 Jimmy Mataya sold his Balabushka I think for $1500.00 and it was then put up for sale for $2500.00
Hubert Cokes {Daddy Warbucks} Bushka sold for 600.00 a couple of years earlier.
Now the cardboard box it came in is worth $2500.00
Bushka's and Szambotis were well sought after BEFORE the movie. But look at it another way... before the movie what was pool in general? That movie set in motion pool's rise in popularity. That movie gave rise to the pool room boom of the late 80's early 90's. In turn it made cue collecting very fashionable. Bushka's were helped by the mention in the movie, sure, but EVERY cue was helped with the movie.
Without that movie, there are 675 less cuemakers making cues today.
JV
Without that movie, there are 675 less cuemakers making cues today.
JV
Yeah, took it to the grave with him.
Movie was HUGE for everything pool related.
I'm sure the fact that it was a Bushka instead of say a Paradise or Martin helped pump those cues up faster and would have had a similar effect on whatever name they would have used in it's place. I 'm just really glad they used a deserving name instead of making one up or going with a production product placement which is probably what they would do today.
I'm sure the fact that it was a Bushka instead of say a Paradise or Martin helped pump those cues up faster and would have had a similar effect on whatever name they would have used in it's place. I 'm just really glad they used a deserving name instead of making one up or going with a production product placement which is probably what they would do today.
The value of Tom Cruise has been going down hill since TCOM.
It really helped the popularity of the cues George "would have made had he lived".
Specifically the Balabuska tribute cues made by Helmstetter.
Several months ago I saw a guy here in China trying to pass one of those off as a real Bushka and asking $10,000 for it. He even had a copy of the blue book's Balabushka page as a reference.
But I think Joe really hit on the most important point. TCOM made pool boom across the board and it made a lot of folks realize that pool has it's own Stradivarious.
Specifically the Balabuska tribute cues made by Helmstetter.
Several months ago I saw a guy here in China trying to pass one of those off as a real Bushka and asking $10,000 for it. He even had a copy of the blue book's Balabushka page as a reference.
But I think Joe really hit on the most important point. TCOM made pool boom across the board and it made a lot of folks realize that pool has it's own Stradivarious.
Both the Hustler, and the Color of Money sparked an interest in Pool. Pool Rooms sprang up all over the World, the Japaneese started playing Pool, collecting Cue, and went crazy over Pool.
The people who sell, or sold Pool anything be it Chalk, or Cue Sticks profited from both movies, now it is TIME to do a SEQUIL of the Color of Money to again spark an interest in Pool again.
Many Manufacture have EXPERIENCE BOOMS in Sales from Movies, TV, and even the New Reports, like Charter Arm did when the Son of Sam Killer, David Berkowitz used a .44 caliber Charter Arms Bulldog as his killing instrument. The .44 caliber Charter Arms Bulldog has record sales.
Smith & Wesson could not build the Model 29 Revolver fast enough to keep up with demand, chambered for the powerful .44 Magnum cartridge. After Clint Eastwood used the pistol in Dirty Harry.
The people who sell, or sold Pool anything be it Chalk, or Cue Sticks profited from both movies, now it is TIME to do a SEQUIL of the Color of Money to again spark an interest in Pool again.
Many Manufacture have EXPERIENCE BOOMS in Sales from Movies, TV, and even the New Reports, like Charter Arm did when the Son of Sam Killer, David Berkowitz used a .44 caliber Charter Arms Bulldog as his killing instrument. The .44 caliber Charter Arms Bulldog has record sales.
Smith & Wesson could not build the Model 29 Revolver fast enough to keep up with demand, chambered for the powerful .44 Magnum cartridge. After Clint Eastwood used the pistol in Dirty Harry.
No, I don't truly believe that the movie increased the value of actual Balabushka cues that much at all .
By the time the movie came out in 1986 , Balabushkas were already accepted as the standard of excellence , and their values were already on the rise .
BookCollector pointed out that in 1987 , Jimmy Mataya sold his for $1500 , and it was then put up for sale for $2500 .
That's a common "used car" flipping practice . . .
That's considerably more than the "few hundred" he would have paid George for it in 1971 .
Let's also assume that Jimmy kept it in close to pristine condition .
Well , consider this . . . .
If , in 1971 , Jimmy had used the "few hundred" to buy a used car in fairly good condition ... .and kept it in fairly good condition . . .
say a 4-year old (1967) Mustang . . . . they were common then . . . .
by 1987 collector values would have been near $6,000
today's value would be close to $30,000 . . .
Maybe the 'Bushkas aren't appreciating as fast as we like to think . . .
The newest Balabushka is 38 years old , and there will never be any MORE . . .
Remember , they were handmade , by a master pioneering his craft . . .
a contemporary of Andy Warhol . . . .
Good God , what's a Warhol painting from 1971 worth ??
(just Googled that - STARTING BID $26,000 . . )
Nope , wait , that's not even a PAINTING - it's a screen print of a cow on wallpaper !
These Bushkas really AREN'T appreciating as fast as you might think . . .
By the time the movie came out in 1986 , Balabushkas were already accepted as the standard of excellence , and their values were already on the rise .
BookCollector pointed out that in 1987 , Jimmy Mataya sold his for $1500 , and it was then put up for sale for $2500 .
That's a common "used car" flipping practice . . .
That's considerably more than the "few hundred" he would have paid George for it in 1971 .
Let's also assume that Jimmy kept it in close to pristine condition .
Well , consider this . . . .
If , in 1971 , Jimmy had used the "few hundred" to buy a used car in fairly good condition ... .and kept it in fairly good condition . . .
say a 4-year old (1967) Mustang . . . . they were common then . . . .
by 1987 collector values would have been near $6,000
today's value would be close to $30,000 . . .
Maybe the 'Bushkas aren't appreciating as fast as we like to think . . .
The newest Balabushka is 38 years old , and there will never be any MORE . . .
Remember , they were handmade , by a master pioneering his craft . . .
a contemporary of Andy Warhol . . . .
Good God , what's a Warhol painting from 1971 worth ??
(just Googled that - STARTING BID $26,000 . . )
Nope , wait , that's not even a PAINTING - it's a screen print of a cow on wallpaper !
These Bushkas really AREN'T appreciating as fast as you might think . . .
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they can even create products !
Movies can even CREATE a market for something that didn't exist previously . In 1978 , the producers of E.T. the Extra Testicle approached the Mars Corporation for permission to use M&M's in the filming of the movie. Mars declined , and Hershey created the candy specifically for the movie . Sales went through the roof with the 1982 release of the movie , and they've been a top seller ever since !
Movies can even CREATE a market for something that didn't exist previously . In 1978 , the producers of E.T. the Extra Testicle approached the Mars Corporation for permission to use M&M's in the filming of the movie. Mars declined , and Hershey created the candy specifically for the movie . Sales went through the roof with the 1982 release of the movie , and they've been a top seller ever since !
The Color of money was a sequel to 'The Hustler' although it could have been done better.
I agree (and would go spend the money to see) the third installment. The trouble is: now Fast Eddie is gone, and Vince is 'the master' who would be taking a kid on the road. Doesn't sound like a good story line to me, but I could whip up a screenplay in a couple hours to that effect...
Also, I agree with the appreciation on the Balabushka- it could be higher. Right now we are in a depression, and the cue values are reflected in that. The 'flippers' are not getting what they once did, and have to sell a bit lower to keep things moving.
I am also glad they used a 'real' cue maker for the movie, rather than make one up, but wish they used a 'real' Balabushka (or even better would have been to use what Fast Eddie had used in the first movie- not sure what that was exactly and it would have tied them together much better) or at least a better copy than that Joss East. I know Dan could make something that looked more like a traditional Balabushka and also reflected the appearance of the cue used in 'the Hustler' to keep things tidy.
Part of the driver for using (well, SAYING it was) a 'Balabushka' is it has a nice sound to it. I think they could have said it was a Szamboti too, but I don't think Gus was making cues when 'The Hustler' was released, and since Fast Eddie hung up his cue at the end of the movie, he would have had to have had it at the time of the movie, and not obtained it later. Frank Paradise would have been a good alternate, and (slightly off topic) I think his cues are currently way undervalued... More likely it was a Brunswick cue that Eddie used. (I also liked the case Eddie had in The Hustler, which I think was an A. E. Schmidt case which I learned here on AZ:wink
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