John Schmidt/Shane Van Boening Vs. Quintan Hann????
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The fact that the majority of people say 8 ball is a fair game is because they aren't taking into account the bragging and name calling. They just want to see a fair game! Stand back from Hahns comments and you will prob agree. Everything else is just BS and won't result in jack.
As NYCDude pointed out American 8 ball on an American pool table with American equipment should certainly favor JS. Add to that Johns excellent 14.1 skills which are very transferable and I' extreemly surprised John doesn't tear Hans hands off (not literally of course
If JS is refusing simply because "he started it" and "he said he's the greatest" then this match will never happen!
IMO and Ive never met the guy Hahn has made the much fairer challenges. If JS has turned him down because of the reasons above then fair enough, but I think most people are wondering if that's the only reason?
I underated JS when I first saw him play (which I told him) but you can't argue with what he's acheived since. I would just like to see them match up, personally I think Hahn is the dark horse but I could be wrong and I'm curious to see it.
As NYCDude pointed out American 8 ball on an American pool table with American equipment should certainly favor JS. Add to that Johns excellent 14.1 skills which are very transferable and I' extreemly surprised John doesn't tear Hans hands off (not literally of course
If JS is refusing simply because "he started it" and "he said he's the greatest" then this match will never happen!
IMO and Ive never met the guy Hahn has made the much fairer challenges. If JS has turned him down because of the reasons above then fair enough, but I think most people are wondering if that's the only reason?
I underated JS when I first saw him play (which I told him) but you can't argue with what he's acheived since. I would just like to see them match up, personally I think Hahn is the dark horse but I could be wrong and I'm curious to see it.
smashmouth said:
Jim Rempe qualified and played on the Snooker tour for two or three years. His highest finish may have been top sixteen. He told me back then (in the 80's) that no American would have a chance over there.
corvette1340 said:
I loved your last movie! Can I get your autograph Owen?
chamillionare said:
Well in an effort to inject a little levity into this thread, my fav story about this:
Milton Berle a famous comedian and member of the Friars Club was renowned to be the most "well endowed" man in hollywood. One day some members wanted to get a bet down whether milty was larger than someone else. They kept trying to get milty to join the bet and couldn't. The final close was "come on milty, you don't have to show the WHOLE thing, just enough to win!"
Cheers,
Joe
Jennie you look great for your age!JAM said:Actually, I kind of think I look great for 54 years of age. Actually, I was 51 in that picture, I think.
EDITED: What a waste of time this forum is for me.
You, Corvette, are a loser in the biggest sense of the word. You are insulting and a POS as far as I am concerned.
JAM
memikey said:You're not making much logical sense here. In fact you appear to be arguing against your own point. Purely for the sake of discussion, let's assume that you're right.........a match against Harriman is tougher for him than an 8 ball match against Hann......what then do you see as the reasons for being happy to play the former and not the latter? Self flaggelation?
Just to clarify.......I'm not saying he's bottling it, I just don't see where your chain of reasoning is going on this aspect
Edit...sorry forgot to mention, please leave "principle" out of it....this is pool
the point about harriman is just to show that he's not not playing hann because he's scared to play a tough match, which is what some people have said/implied. playing harriman is a MUCH tougher game, and he's stepping up again after having lost the first time too.
quentin started with the trash-talking and the initial challenge. now HE'S backed down from it because he now only wants to play eight ball. why should john want to step up to make the game after quentin has backed down. why should he want to play quentin's best game to get him to play again? it's not his beef. quentin challenged him and insulted him - now why won't he step up, and back up his claims he's the favourite in nine ball and ten ball? instead we have a half hearted offer of eight ball which conveniently happens to be his best game and takes out half the elements that seperate pool players from snooker players.
that part of the quote wasn't the relevant part.
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worriedbeef said:the point about harriman is just to show that he's not not playing hann because he's scared to play a tough match, which is what some people have said/implied. playing harriman is a MUCH tougher game, and he's stepping up again after having lost the first time too.
quentin started with the trash-talking and the initial challenge. now HE'S backed down from it because he now only wants to play eight ball. why should john want to step up to make the game after quentin has backed down. why should he want to play quentin's best game to get him to play again? it's not his beef. quentin challenged him and insulted him - now why won't he step up, and back up his claims he's the favourite in nine ball and ten ball? instead we have a half hearted offer of eight ball which conveniently happens to be his best game and takes out half the elements that seperate pool players from snooker players.
that part of the quote wasn't the relevant part.
American 8 Ball QH best game? an interesting idea but I think if you want to get this match made you should at least start off from a slightly believable position
Id say the IPT events are the ONLY American 8 ball events QH has played in his ENTIRE LIFE!
But then of course I think Snooker is JS best game, so I don't think QH should take that bad bet either.
TheOne said:
I'd defnitely say it's arguable. He has won numerous 8-ball events in the past (english) which shows he is very good at the knowledge and principles of the game, and seemed to transfer over to the american table with ease as proved with the IPT.
jay helfert said:I loved your last movie! Can I get your autograph Owen?
Owen Wilson gets all the high quality Hollywood tail.
You don't read all the posts do you? If you read post #272 you would get it, as ALL of your points were addressed and disproven.worriedbeef said:
Let me spell this out for you a little better. The WHOLE argument between the two is over who has more TALENT. Quentin says that he has more TALENT than John. John says that his TALENT is equal. Quentin says that snooker players in general have more TALENT than pool players. John says that the TALENT level between the two is the same. This is not about who would win 9 ball, or snooker. It is about who has the most TALENT. Are you understanding now?
Quentin did say in passing that he thought he would be the very SLIGHT favorite playing 9 or 10 ball if he were to practice them for a short time, but that it was so slight that it was not worth traveling half way around the world to play it (although he did offer to include them in an all around that favored John), and that it was not worth having to learn the game (John already knows the game in and out). This comment was never what the argument between the two of them is about. The argument between them is, and always has been, who has the most TALENT with a cue and a set of balls on a table.
Since the argument is over who has more TALENT, and John says he has the same amount of TALENT as Quentin, you could just as easily argue why doesn't John just play Quentin snooker then since he claims to have the same amount of TALENT. See how silly that argument is?
Regardless of Quentin's feelings of being slight favorite in other games, the ONLY FAIR WAY to determine who has the most TALENT is to find a game that neither of them has an advantage in because of their past experience in it, not by playing a game that one of them already specializes in. That game, according to anyone who is willing to look at it without bias, is American 8 ball. It actually favors John slightly, but it is still the closest to being fair, and Quentin is willing to play it anyway.
Now go back and read post #272 again. It shows you why you are wrong on every single point you have tried to make. If after reading that you still don't get it, then the only "beef" you need to be "worried" about is that slab of beef in your head called a brain.
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Firstly the issue of what the argument is about is a different one to the issue of the challenge.
And secondly, if you want to settle an argument about cueing TALENT, as you so much like to capitalise, then why pick the one game where the least amount is needed and it's all about picking a pattern to run the balls with the most stop shots and centre ball hits, and natural angles.
why not play the game where you need the good stroke, the big shots, the kicking ability etc etc.
..........worriedbeef said:
And John Schmidt is one of the best straight pool players in the world, and has one of the top five verifiable straight pool runs in history, which also shows that he is very good at the knowledge and principles of the American 8 ball game too. So what's your point?worriedbeef said:
And did it ever occur to you that it just might be Quentin's pure natural talent that transferred over to the American table with ease, and that the reason John won't play him is because he is afraid that Quentin might actually prove his claim of having more talent? Nah, nevermind, that kind of thought process would make too much sense.
Did you not understand my sentence?
There are most definitely two issues. Quentin making a claim/issuing a challenge and then backing down/changing his offer is the one.
the other is an argument over who has more talent.
what the hell was the point in Quentin banging on about all his talent and how he is the favourite in all games if he's now gonna change his mind and only play the one which is ARGUABLY his strongest game, and takes away half of the big stroke shots, the long pots, and turns it into a battle of the best patterns and speed control?
It did occur to me, but then i thought it's unlikely that's the reason he won't play him because even if Quentin is the most naturally talented player in the world, it still wouldn't be a more difficult match, at the very very least about the same, as his match up with danny he's got coming up.
like i said, it's more about the fact that quentin has backed down from HIS original claims/challenge, and john doesn't feel he has to make the match happen because he doesn't feel he has anything to prove.
and i don't want to get into a huge discussion about eight ball because it's a topic that can quite easily fill an entire thread of it's own. but i think it's indubitable that you don't need the big stroke shots in it, the kicking ability etc, the big stroke. not that i'm suggesting he doesn't have a good stroke, but he can leave it at home for eight ball.
finally i know it's not the most scientific proof, but still, i will more often run an eight ball rack easier than a nine ball one. because if i've picked a good pattern, i am a lot less likely to have to play the big shots.
for what it's worth, i do actually WANT john to accept to play him eight ball simply because i would love to watch the match. (obviously i would prefer nine ball because eight ball is boring to watch). don't think i don't want him to play in case he might lose because he's my favourite player or something. it's just i can't blame the bloke for not agreeing to it.
Poolplaya9 said:
If you believe Quentin then where do you get John is a slight favorite in 8-Ball. I do not know Quentin, so let's believe he is an excellent handicapper.
chamillionare said:
Thus John is a HUGE underdog based on handicapping provided by the chamillionare.
He also adds
chamillionare said:
You say John is one of the best straight pool players in the world but there is also another man with equal TALENT based on the handicapping of the chamillionare.
chamillionare said:
Also if TALENT is the question, this has already been answered.
chamillionare said:
DING DING DING the winner of the TALENT competition goes to Mr. Toe.
Let's say we take 3 games, 9-Ball, Straight Pool and 8-Ball. Even if these are the games to be played, based on the handicapping of Mr. Hann himself, he is a HUGE favorite, not a slight favorite but a HUGE favorite at72.2%.
Therefore, John would be foolish to include 8-Ball even in an all around. I believe John offered a 30 ahead set of 9-ball, which would still be a very tough match. Some may say he would be chasing the nuts, at a 40% underdog in this game.
He may need to play a straight pool match because this is the only game where it would be an even match based on the handicapping of the chamillionare, aka Quinten Hann.
I don't really see a second issue, because what you are calling a second issue was just comments Quentin made in an attempt to support his claim of having more talent. He just broke it down to say that not only does he feel that he is the most talented overall, but that he feels he would be the favorite in most individual disciplines, even if by only a little bit. This really isn't a revalation, because if he believes that he is an all around more talented cueist, then of course he believes he would be favored in the majority of disciplines. The only issue, and certainly the first and larger issue, is who has the most talent. Go back and check the beginning of this thread and the other one and you will see what I am talking about.worriedbeef said:Did you not understand my sentence?
There are most definitely two issues. Quentin making a claim/issuing a challenge and then backing down/changing his offer is the one.
the other is an argument over who has more talent.
This "second" issue is really just a sub-section of the first issue after it was broken down into smaller parts.
what the hell was the point in Quentin banging on about all his talent and how he is the favourite in all games if he's now gonna change his mind and only play the one which is ARGUABLY his strongest game, and takes away half of the big stroke shots, the long pots, and turns it into a battle of the best patterns and speed control?
Go back and read the beginning of both threads. His initial claim was only that he had more talent than John, and that in general snooker players had more talent than pool players. Later, after John argued with him, he broke it down and mentioned a few games he thought he was favored in, and he was clear that he was only a very slight favorite in some. He never said he was the favorite in every or all games. And if it's long pots and tough shots you want to see, then they should be playing snooker.
It did occur to me, but then i thought it's unlikely that's the reason he won't play him because even if Quentin is the most naturally talented player in the world, it still wouldn't be a more difficult match, at the very very least about the same, as his match up with danny he's got coming up.
It is the most likely reason by far actually. People don't turn down large sums of money because the other guy put them down a little bit. If anything, it makes them want the revenge of winning and taking their money even more. And how could another match be more difficult than if you were to play the most talented player in the world as you put it? That makes no sense. I could name a dozen tougher matches for John in just seconds. Not saying it is not a tough match, but it is close to even, and there are much tougher matches out there, this one with Quentin included IMO. Rgardless, the proof is in the pudding. John is willing to take one match, and not the other. There is a reason he won't take the match, and when large money is involved, it's not going to be because you don't like the guy. That would make you want to take his money even more.
like i said, it's more about the fact that quentin has backed down from HIS original claims/challenge, and john doesn't feel he has to make the match happen because he doesn't feel he has anything to prove.
Does John like money? Forget about proving anything, this is an opportunity to make money. I could see your point if they were talking about playing for free, but we are talking big money. American pool players are not like snooker players, they are poor. Trust me when I tell you that if they feel they have a chance to make a decent amount of money, they don't care about proving anything, how much they like someone, or what someone has said about them.
And Quentin has not backed down from his original claims. His original claims were that he has more talent than John, and that snooker players have more talent than pool players. His original challenge was to play one American game and then one English game. His next challenge was to play only American 8 ball. He has not backed down from any of it.
and i don't want to get into a huge discussion about eight ball because it's a topic that can quite easily fill an entire thread of it's own. but i think it's indubitable that you don't need the big stroke shots in it, the kicking ability etc, the big stroke. not that i'm suggesting he doesn't have a good stroke, but he can leave it at home for eight ball.
Why are you so focused on stroke? NO game has everything, but 8 ball has about as good a mix as any. If you want to keep harping on things like stroke, then I will harp on things like shotmaking. The other games use smaller tables and don't have as long of shots into as tight of pockets as snooker, so they should only play snooker. Yup, only snooker because it has the toughest shots. Can't play 9 ball because it doesn't have the tough shots like snooker. See how silly that argument is when you try to choose a game based on what particular type shot you want to see a lot of? No matter what game you choose, it will be missing something that somebody else can argue is important too. Again, NO game has everything. You can't pick a game in a situation like this based on what pet shots you want to see a lot of. You have to choose a game based on what has a decent mix of shots, and more importantly what doesn't have specialized shots that would favor only one person because of their background (like snooker or 9 ball).
finally i know it's not the most scientific proof, but still, i will more often run an eight ball rack easier than a nine ball one. because if i've picked a good pattern, i am a lot less likely to have to play the big shots.
At the pro level, it's managing the rack, winning the safety and strategy battles, efectively breaking clusters, and running out the impossible racks that will seperate the men from the boys. You make it sound like you could hang with these guys in American 8 ball and unless you are a pro, I can assure you that they would tear you a new one at that game, just like they would in every other game. It is a different game at the highest levels, and it is difficult enough that the same guys are always at the top.
for what it's worth, i do actually WANT john to accept to play him eight ball simply because i would love to watch the match. (obviously i would prefer nine ball because eight ball is boring to watch). don't think i don't want him to play in case he might lose because he's my favourite player or something. it's just i can't blame the bloke for not agreeing to it.
I can blame the bloke for not agreeing to it, because if he doesn't play it is only because he did not think he was going to win that money. You hold out for principles when it's for free, but when you think you will win decent money then you will play. Besides, so what if somebody says they are better than you. It is not that big of deal anyway. It's not like the guy murdered his brother or something. Probably close to half of the gambling matches that take place in the US have somebody saying similar things about how they are better than the other guy while they are matching up before playing. This is no different and it's par for the course.
But just for the sake of argument let's say that there is now this second sub-issue on who is better in particular games. It shouldn't distract us/them from what is the first, largest, main, most important and major issue of who has the most talent. Let's get that one settled first, and then we can work on seeing who is better in whatever particular game.
Or John could just accept Quentin's challenge to play 3 of John's games on American tables, 8, 9 and 10 ball, and two of Quentin's games on British tables, snooker and English 8 ball. Then we would know who is the most talented overall, AND who is the best in each individual discipline. Quentin has offered a fair way for everything to be answered at once.
I'm not holding my breath on it though because Quentin's challenge was more than fair (it actually favors John a bit), and John doesn't appear to be interested in anything even close to fair--he wants a lock. It looks like John is afaid that Quentin might be right about having more talent, and doesn't want to give him any fair shot to prove it.
Poolplaya9 said:
Quinten, if you are listening please send Mr. Poolplaya9 an autographed picture of yourself. He would like to hang it in his bedroom.
actually i probably am or was the most naturaly gifted player in the world with any cue any game ask players who have seen me play alot and name a better all around player with more talent i bet you cant with any amount of reasonable logic i was the best all round player no contest
ronnie is a god at snooker and the best ever and i was in awe of his talent but his brain and cue action is wired for snooker and he could never be very good at any other game. who else is there? john smidt if i play pool its garanteed i would own him at all the games except possibly straight pool. although i ran a hundred balls in 5 or 6 goes to warm up during ipt it aint that hard to run a 100 or 150 shit id run 200 in a few weeks no problem playing everyday
you know how many players came up to me in my career and told me this and what your gonna say im no good because i wont come over there and scratch around playing 5 grand comps just to prove myself to people i never meet.there are some real wallys here on this interent site? why dont you start a get quinten fund and back john ill put in 100 dollars to get it started ok and then when you get 30k ill come over and open your eyes to real talent shit i might even learn these other games and clean up all the second rate pro's like smidt
ronnie is a god at snooker and the best ever and i was in awe of his talent but his brain and cue action is wired for snooker and he could never be very good at any other game. who else is there? john smidt if i play pool its garanteed i would own him at all the games except possibly straight pool. although i ran a hundred balls in 5 or 6 goes to warm up during ipt it aint that hard to run a 100 or 150 shit id run 200 in a few weeks no problem playing everyday
you know how many players came up to me in my career and told me this and what your gonna say im no good because i wont come over there and scratch around playing 5 grand comps just to prove myself to people i never meet.there are some real wallys here on this interent site? why dont you start a get quinten fund and back john ill put in 100 dollars to get it started ok and then when you get 30k ill come over and open your eyes to real talent shit i might even learn these other games and clean up all the second rate pro's like smidt