Las Vegas & Pro Pool - What I am Talking about Here is the Future

[cardiac kid]

Lenny,

Like the idea. A lot! Wouldn't it be nice if we could get the APA, BCAPL, VNEA and ACS to offer at least one "Pro" event at each of their Vegas National tournaments. BCAPL already does. Sure would be a start. APA in April. ACS and VNEA in May. BCAPL / USAPL in July and APA again in August.

Remember playing in an event sponsored by Gabriel's at the APA Team event in August several years ago. Think it may have been affiliated with the UPA.

Just think. Swanee and US Bar Box in February. Chet Ito in March. Add in Bonus Ball and you have at least six months of potential play. You might even suggest to Gino Hill to add a "Pro" bar box event early in March to his "Doc" Hill and Andy Mercer series at The Rum Runner. Think you could get all those folks together to make something happen? Sure would be great for the players!

Lyn

 

[elvicash]

Well, we will never know until it actually happens. So there's really no point in debating something that most likely won't happen.

But consider these billiards facts that will back up my point:

1/ The BCA usually has the largest attendance rate when they hold shows in Vegas compare to other cities,

2/ CSI - formerly BCA used to hold their National tournaments in different cities - chose Vegas as its home for their National Tournament,

3/ APA chose Vegas as its home for their National Tournament,

VNEA, ACS chose Vegas as their permanent home, and TAP alternates Vegas as their home every other year, for their home for their Events.

These organizations obviously believe -and I am sure have done their due research - that Vegas is good for their business.

With the only exception of the SBE, all billiards shows in Vegas always have the largest attendance of vendors.

I agree all those events do well in Vegas. But what you are not considering is that the attendees are all coming to play or to support the player they come with most are not coming to watch. What the pro events would need would be to draw people to watch. People interested in watching pro pool is low especially outside of the existing players/past players. To attract more than a thousand spectators at a time is I think unheard of currently in pool. I went to Galveston they built bleachers for two thousand at a time. They had admissions and elite admissions. I think I know the guy who bought the only elite complete event admission.The stands were empty. I actually bought a single day admission there was no one there watching from Houston the people there were all players.

Maybe in Vegas people would come if you were having the events and the tickets were being sold and the events were advertised. But to draw a real crowd the crowd expects a crowd it breeds excitement and right now there is no crowd and no spectator excitement. How many tickets are sold for daily entry at the US Open 9 ball, I do not know, I am pretty sure it is only a couple of hundred a day at the DCC. The spectators are mostly players at these events I bet also at Valley Forge.

To make this work we need people who do not play pool to watch either locally or via distribution. People who got to NBA games do not for the most part play football, people who go to MMA are not working out and fighting themselves they are doing this for entertainment. People who currently go to pool tourney's are for the most part pool players. Pool needs new non-pool viewers for anything pro to work.

 

[vapoolplayer]

.................

 

[Michael-Hoang]

I agree all those events do well in Vegas. But what you are not considering is that the attendees are all coming to play or to support the player they come with most are not coming to watch. What the pro events would need would be to draw people to watch. People interested in watching pro pool is low especially outside of the existing players/past players. To attract more than a thousand spectators at a time is I think unheard of currently in pool. I went to Galveston they built bleachers for two thousand at a time. They had admissions and elite admissions. I think I know the guy who bought the only elite complete event admission.The stands were empty. I actually bought a single day admission there was no one there watching from Houston the people there were all players.

Maybe in Vegas people would come if you were having the events and the tickets were being sold and the events were advertised. But to draw a real crowd the crowd expects a crowd it breeds excitement and right now there is no crowd and no spectator excitement. How many tickets are sold for daily entry at the US Open 9 ball, I do not know, I am pretty sure it is only a couple of hundred a day at the DCC. The spectators are mostly players at these events I bet also at Valley Forge.

To make this work we need people who do not play pool to watch either locally or via distribution. People who got to NBA games do not for the most part play football, people who go to MMA are not working out and fighting themselves they are doing this for entertainment. People who currently go to pool tourney's are for the most part pool players. Pool needs new non-pool viewers for anything pro to work.

What you wrote above is actually the very key foundation of our problem: How to attract the casual fans to this wonderful billiards game.

I am hoping that one day we can fix it.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Doing events in Vegas is expensive as balls and a pain in the ass if you are talking about doing them in a casino. Between unions, mandatory room night numbers, constantly changing hotel staff you have to chase around endlessly and myriad other things.

The only reason any pro events are in Vegas is because there are 7000 amateurs in town that week covering the nut. It would be sweet to a casino get on board as the official home of pool but casinos only care about two things: how much money your group gambles and how many room nights your group books. Thats it. Strictly numbers.

Well I guess it’s good you added this as I didn’t know this information, JCIN.

1.) My thoughts were similar to Lenny's because every time I have flown into Vegas it was the cheapest damn flight ever.

2.) I like staying at the Golden Nugget best, but I have stayed at just about everyplace there and its pretty cheap hotels.

3.) Generally, people are nits. And pool players and their fans are the worst. I laugh because cleaning folks at DCC said they have never seen so many people staying in one room before.... I have to admit I have been in one room sleeping with over 8 people in there at the same time.

4.) Pool players who live less than an hour away from DCC because it is too far or too expensive. People in Memphis is the same for Tunica...

Lenny your heart is in the right place, and besides the fanatics like us, pool will NEVER be like Golf, NASCAR, Baseball, Football or anything else. It is what it is.

My suggestions?
Sure it is easy to be negative or complain but here are some things we CAN do to help our support.

1.) Support your local pool hall, buy stuff from them food, drinks, and anything else you can use. My local pool hall is packed every night, and a lot of the times you either have to wait for a table or play poker. Tracy Whitney (HIGH POCKETS - Memphis) is the owner and he meets, greets, shakes hands, knows everyone's name of everyone in the place. He backs players, puts them in tournaments out of town. Probably the best owner of a room I have ever seen. His business is booming and I think because he WORKS IT, instead of sitting on his ass.

2.) Go to DCC or / and Tunica or / and US Open.

3.) Encourage youngsters, play leagues, talk to owners about starting youth leagues. Help newbies, stake players, play tournaments (even if you don’t have a chance in hell...).

4.) If anyone supports pool especially those out of the industry, tell them you are buying their product BECAUSE they support pool. (This is a biggie). I don’t give a damn if it is cigarettes, beer, or restaurants, etc.

Just my damn thoughts, best of rolls to my AZ brothers.

Ken

 

[hon400ex]

I would like to see something like this happen, too. Anywhere would be great. I think it would be a huge bonus to have the top pros all in one city so they could shoot against each other and practice against each other all the time. I would think that their pool game would improve, also. Plus, it could make for some great action match ups, besides. I would think that St. Louis or Houston would be other good ideas for locations.
Andy

 

[Slasher]

Throw in a reality show with head to head action and live OTB.

 

[pwd72s]

I would like to see something like this happen, too. Anywhere would be great. I think it would be a huge bonus to have the top pros all in one city so they could shoot against each other and practice against each other all the time. I would think that their pool game would improve, also. Plus, it could make for some great action match ups, besides. I would think that St. Louis or Houston would be other good ideas for locations.
Andy

Why does it have to be a big city? It would take a real visionary with $$$ to pull it off, but why not a pool version of Branson, Mo.?

 

[pwd72s]

have it in the geological center of north america, where would that be?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_center_of_the_contiguous_United_States

Now you know...

 

[JCIN]

Why does it have to be a big city? It would take a real visionary with $$$ to pull it off, but why not a pool version of Branson, Mo.?

I have always thought pool needs events in smaller cities if the goal is to attract paying spectators. No one in NYC cares if Shane and Johnny are coming to play that week. But they might care in Olathe, Kansas or Sioux Falls if you tell them far enough in advance and often enough.

Basically just like the circus does. Old school road show.

The idea of a Vegas based pool thing makes sense if you don't care about live spectators and produce everything for online consumption. At least to me it does. Obviously.

 

[Maniac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_center_of_the_contiguous_United_States

Now you know...

Disclaimer: this post NOT to be taken seriously, and in no way do I mean to insult the real, living persons of Lebanon, Kansas.



Ahhh yes, Lebanon, Kansas, where the men are men and the women are.......well........

Where teeth are a rarity and foreplay between two married people sounds like this: "How 'bout pullin' them panties off, sis".

Yeah, let's put on a pool tournament there!!!

Maniac

 

[HawaiianEye]

The idea of a Vegas based pool thing makes sense if you don't care about live spectators and produce everything for online consumption. At least to me it does. Obviously.

I agree. I don't think you would EVER gather ENOUGH "railbirds", paying admission, to cover the expenses of running a continuous "pro circuit" out of ANY city. There just AREN'T enough PAYING consumers to do that.

I think the ONLY way this would work is if pool become a "spectator" sport and people watched it on TV, sponsored by ads. I don't think PPV would generate enough revenue to make it worthwhile. I have played pool for over 40 years and I have met VERY FEW people (other than player fanatics) who would pay to WATCH pool.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I agree. I don't think you would EVER gather ENOUGH "railbirds", paying admission, to cover the expenses of running a continuous "pro circuit" out of ANY city. There just AREN'T enough PAYING consumers to do that.

I think the ONLY way this would work is if pool become a "spectator" sport and people watched it on TV, sponsored by ads. I don't think PPV would generate enough revenue to make it worthwhile. I have played pool for over 40 years and I have met VERY FEW people (other than player fanatics) who would pay to WATCH pool.

I see no reason why the same people who go to the usual big events wont go to Vegas for that same event, I think more people would actually considering the lower cost of airfare and hotel along with more to do there.

 

[Jimmy M.]

have it in the geological center of north america, where would that be?

Waikiki Beach!

 

[8ballEinstein]

A consideration for hosting a pool tournament (Professional) maybe better suited in a local casino off the strip. Plenty of them. Most of them currently host professional bowling tournaments. Almost all of them, have ammenities most strip casinos don't have. Example, Movie theaters, bowling alleys (some 24 hours) and less expensive restaurants and buffets and the rooms are much less expensive as well.

And your gambling dollars get better comps in local casinos as well. Just a thought. Most off strip casinos are only 10 to 15 minutes from the strip...

I like this idea a lot. If one of these local casinos "adopted" pool and tried to make it the mecca for the game, I think Lenny's idea has a chance. It would still be a tough nut and a hard sell. I'm thinking places like The Cannery, Santa Fe, South Point (to name a few) would benefit by getting their name on the map. These are perfectly fine places that happen to be away from the hubbub of the Strip.

Anyone know the folks in top management at these places? If so, get them in touch with Lenny. Heck, send them my way and I'll do my best to sell the idea.

Also, ask Max Eberle if he likes living in Las Vegas. I'm fairly sure he loves it.

 

[scratchs]

Vegas is the last place I'd want to raise a family...didn't you watch "Casino"......

I much perfer Bolder..its just down the road , and a little closer to my grand kids.

 

[Celtic]

Vegas was primed to be the future of pool until Buddy Hall, Mike Lebron, and the rest of the pros in the huge thrown event sold out the sport for a one time payoff.

Vegas would have put huge amounts of money and support into pool BUT the pool world needed to understand that there if give, and there is take and the casinos needed to be able to run matches through the sports book like they di with tennis, golf, and every other sport without the pros screwing things up. If Vegas had the ability to make money via booking bets at their sports books on pool then they would have promoted the helll out of the sport to get more people watching it and thus getting more people who would potentially bet on it.

Vegas supports any sport that gives them the ability to book action, the UFC is HUGE action for Vegas and the gate revenue of a UFC event pales in comparison to the amount of action the casinos all over the city recieve from the events.

"Hall" of fame pool players screwed this sport over decades ago with regards to Vegas supporting pool and it has never recovered.

 

[franko]

Practical

St. Louis and Kansas City are central.

Just try'in

John

I live in N.East Ohio, so I am not promoting my backyard, but the Chicago area with it's airports, hotels. Food, less distractions makes more sense IMO.

 

[vagabond]

I was in a private party three days ago and the Mayor of Las vegas attended the party for a brief period. The Mayor very enthusiastically announced that Pro Basket Ball will be coming to Las Vegas. She did not mention anything about Pool.

 

[cardiac kid]

I was in a private party three days ago and the Mayor of Las vegas attended the party for a brief period. The Mayor very enthusiastically announced that Pro Basket Ball will be coming to Las Vegas. She did not mention anything about Pool.

Didn't her husband give the NBA a lifetime ban in Vegas because of the trouble caused at the All-Star game several years ago? Money talks eh?

Hope your doing well. Get into Vegas on April 23rd for the APA event. See you at the Cue Club. Won't have lots of time but I look forward to seeing you.

Lyn