Blackjack said:
For 30 years, most of us just called him "Cardone" when talking about him.
Rating One Pocket Players
- Thread starter wincardona
- Start date
For 30 years, most of us just called him "Cardone" when talking about him.
John Barton
New member
wincardona said:
No Billy we have never met despite being in the same venue many times. I didn't imply that you knew you were disrespecting Grady I said I think you knew that were. And it is my opinion which could be wrong as well.
We can all have "opinions" and defend our position by saying that it our right to have one and so on.
That doesn't change the fact that publicly stating an opinion that disrespects someone else, whether intentionally or unintentionally, means that the disrespect did not occur.
I don't know. It just struck me as funny that you told Grady that you never denigrated his game yet to leave him off your list does just that, in my opinion.
I respect you, I really do. I learned a lot from your one pocket instructional and I enjoy your commentary. I apologize for upsetting you and accusing you of a deliberate slight. It was uncalled for and I didn't really mean it to come out that way.
Well, I have said my 2cnts and I will bow out here. I hope to sweat your action and hear more of your insight.
John Barton
New member
vagabond said:Hi `no saint billy` cardona,
If u will stay on the internet message boards for long you will then get used to sucker punches/slurs/denigrations etc.Don`t be discouraged and leave this site.we like you to share your knowledge, experience & wisdom.
Oh come on. That was no sucker punch. If we all aren't entitled to participate in the discussion then why are we here? I admit that I could have worded it differently but it wasn't in any way a sucker punch.
We are allowed to disagree with people are we not?
I bet I have put more money into the pro game sponsoring - NOT BACKING - but giving money and product away - to pro players than most here. I don't need to make a laundry list of what I have done on a personal level and a business level for pro players.
Here on this forum if we aren't allowed to disagree with a pro then I suppose Mike should just make a blog with no comments allowed.
I think that Billy understands full well that this is a discussion forum. Once again Billy, I am very sorry that I said that you knew you were disrespecting Grady by leaving him off the list. You are right about that. That said I do still hold the opinion that the exclusion is disrespectful to Grady's accomplishments which is counter to your statement that you have never disrespected him. I respectfully disagree with you on that one point only and I hope that you allow that I have the right to do so.
With all due respect,
John Barton
vagabond said:Hi `no saint billy` cardona,
If u will stay on the internet message boards for long you will then get used to sucker punches/slurs/denigrations etc.Don`t be discouraged and leave this site.we like you to share your knowledge, experience & wisdom.
Exactly.
This forum now has Freddie Bentivegna, Grady Mathews and Billy Incardona posting on a regular basis. A few other pros limit their time here with tournament info and odds and ends, but these three mentioned are in the pit mostly every day. How lucky are we!
It's not patronizing for me to say they ARE so cool for availing themselves here. I just hope they don't get tired of the potshots. Freddy took a blast in the aft the other day, but survived strongly with his destroyers also firing salvos at the kamakazee until he left and went north and left the ol' battleship to keep cruising along nicely.
It will never happen, but how awesome would it be to have Accu-Stats set these three down around a table for a "round-robin" type Q&A, replete with tales of yore in abundance! Talk about must see TV!
These 3 men are a large part of American pool history. They should be afforded much respect, at least in part for subjecting themselves to the sniping.
John Barton I respect you said:
yeesh...
If the list had gone to 14 and grady had been #14, would anyone still say billy was insulting him? Or if he happened to say (in a whole other topic) #13 on the list played pretty close to Grady's speed, is that a big insult?
It's pretty easy to believe that places 10-20 might be shuffled around a little and debateable.
Billy can't know every single matchup and know that maybe #12 once played #8 and gave him a ball and won or whatever. He can only judge based on a mix of what he's seen and a little of "they say...". Some of the guys who are complaining probably never saw a single person on the list, and are basing their gripes 100% on "they say..." and 0% on actual experience.
Of course if billy wanted he could have made it to 14 and added grady's name.. maybe that even occurred to him... but he chose to just do top 10 current + 3 legendary names.
I don't know enough to comment on whether grady belongs on there or not but it seems kinda lacking humility to get upset and call someone an A-hole just because they won't say you're one of the top 13 ever, living or dead. If someone made a top 5 list and kept efren out of it, could you imagine him getting hot under the collar about it (even if he knows he belongs there)?
Not trying to take sides, but I see a lot of defensiveness when there clearly was no attack.
If the list had gone to 14 and grady had been #14, would anyone still say billy was insulting him? Or if he happened to say (in a whole other topic) #13 on the list played pretty close to Grady's speed, is that a big insult?
It's pretty easy to believe that places 10-20 might be shuffled around a little and debateable.
Billy can't know every single matchup and know that maybe #12 once played #8 and gave him a ball and won or whatever. He can only judge based on a mix of what he's seen and a little of "they say...". Some of the guys who are complaining probably never saw a single person on the list, and are basing their gripes 100% on "they say..." and 0% on actual experience.
Of course if billy wanted he could have made it to 14 and added grady's name.. maybe that even occurred to him... but he chose to just do top 10 current + 3 legendary names.
I don't know enough to comment on whether grady belongs on there or not but it seems kinda lacking humility to get upset and call someone an A-hole just because they won't say you're one of the top 13 ever, living or dead. If someone made a top 5 list and kept efren out of it, could you imagine him getting hot under the collar about it (even if he knows he belongs there)?
Not trying to take sides, but I see a lot of defensiveness when there clearly was no attack.
CreeDo said:
Creed-man,
All of the world-beaters I have ever asked have always listed Grady in the "top 5"; and the discussion on who was the best ever has always at least included the "Grady of the '80's."
This is certainly the first list I've seen that didn't list him at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion (Grady and Billy). The higher level a player has achieved; the more creedence I give to his opinion. Both are WELL above me; but there is no question that Grady has far surpassed Billy in the area of one pocket. I'm not sure anyone really knows how good some of these players are; unless they themselves are at that level.
If you knew what you didn't know, then you wouldn't "not know" it.....to paraphrase Danny D. (and where the heck was his name on that list???).
Kudo's to Billy I. for mixing it up with the forum here on this thread; very commendable.
Last edited:
John Barton said:
John,
My comment was not a direct result of your comment and was not at all directed at you.After Billy started posting on this board ,on few occasions he was put in a situation by various other posters that Billy had to come out in a very defensive manner.I thought that I will remind him of the nature of the beast of internet message boards and want to urge him not to leave this board.By the way,I adopted that word ``sucker punch`` from JAM`s posts.Actually she used to say ``sucker punching Monkey`.few times I pointed out that monkeys don`t sucker punch and they warn you by throwing a coconut at you before punching and they make taunting noise after they punch you.
Any way the word sucker punch WAS NOT USED REFERING TO YOUR POST.SORRY for creating a misunderstanding.
vagabond said:
LOL !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns0L6pbbIrA
Doug
( I can turn into a sucker-punching monkey )
.
Last edited:
When I originally made this list I admit I gave too much credit to a few players that haven't been playing long enough to earn the rating that they were given.Since then I consulted with 2 very knowledgeable players from the past,and revised my list in terms of rank. The new list in my opinion is very accurate ,and in no way is meant to disrespect any player.I appreciate all of the posters on this thread and do realize that a few of them were upset with my ranking.But once again this is just an opinion that I have and shared to offer another perspective on this controversial debate.
#1 Reyes
#2 R.Allen
#3 E.Kelly
#4 C.Joyner
#5 BUGS
#6 A.Hopkins
#7 J.Breit
#8 S.Dalton
#9 G.Mathews
#10 S.Cook
#28 B.Incardona What!! What do you know.
#1 Reyes
#2 R.Allen
#3 E.Kelly
#4 C.Joyner
#5 BUGS
#6 A.Hopkins
#7 J.Breit
#8 S.Dalton
#9 G.Mathews
#10 S.Cook
#28 B.Incardona What!! What do you know.
Last edited:
wincardona said:
WHAT??? Where is Jay Helfert? He will take 8-4 and the break from any of these guys, living or dead (except for Efren). I demand a recount.
Remembering the past
You know, when I was a plant manager, I had to keep records of all the employees progress on a weekly basis for their yearly review. Why, because if I didn't, I would only be able to remember the last two to three months activies prior to their review. This would not allow me to evaluate the person properly. If they had been at their best, (as employees usually are right before review), that is the only thing I would remember. Keeping track over the whole year gave me a better overall. You have to keep records over the whole period or you don't remember the whole picture.
You know, when I was a plant manager, I had to keep records of all the employees progress on a weekly basis for their yearly review. Why, because if I didn't, I would only be able to remember the last two to three months activies prior to their review. This would not allow me to evaluate the person properly. If they had been at their best, (as employees usually are right before review), that is the only thing I would remember. Keeping track over the whole year gave me a better overall. You have to keep records over the whole period or you don't remember the whole picture.
I see that johnny Ervolino was not mentioned. From 97-2000 the final Florida tour event of the year had a championship 1 pocket tournament also. Besides Ervolino, Danny Diliberto, Mizerak, Ray Martin, Slim Carney, Steve Cook, Buddy Hall, Dave Grossman, John Ditoro, C.M. Lee, Dick Weaver, and alot of others. All 4 years Ervolino won. Not bad considering he was 60+ at the time
freddy the beard said:Billy, I think you misread my post, I will ? If you need a little ego stroking, it's only fair that I mention you were one of the few players who was never intimidated by whomever your opponent was. You usually QUOTE]
Freddy for your info- 17 years ago he refused to play me with the bet I proposed.