Stones said:
I forgot all about that. Good memory and good & relevant point that adds nicely to his already stellar credentials.
Reyes clearly the best ever
- Thread starter wincardona
- Start date
I forgot all about that. Good memory and good & relevant point that adds nicely to his already stellar credentials.
During a visit to a pool hall I frequent Efren said that he was "MUCH BETTER" in the late 70s than now. He also surprised me and said that another Pinoy played better than him. Cant remember the name but he said he didnt miss.
I cant imagine playing much better than what he does now.
Usually watching how other great player treat a person is an easy tell to how great the person is.
At Hardtimes once Efren was fooling around with Raj Hundel. They were kicking and banking and playing 8ball. I looked around an everytime Efren would shoot the place would stop and watch. Guys playing other matches quit or stopped to watch.
These were not the regulars but Pros. Only one guy didnt seem to be that in awe and that was Tony Drago.
One of my favorite quotes in sports is by George Brett ---
"I've never asked him for an autograph, but I'm going to. Before I quit, I'm going to get him to autograph a baseball for me and autograph a football for me and give me one of his bats. I'm going to save them, and when I finally settle down and have children, when I'm sixty or seventy, and my children ask me what I used to do for a living, I'll tell them, "I played baseball. I played with Bo Jackson."
Some of us will be able to say the same thing about Efren. And they will go Who? lol
I cant imagine playing much better than what he does now.
Usually watching how other great player treat a person is an easy tell to how great the person is.
At Hardtimes once Efren was fooling around with Raj Hundel. They were kicking and banking and playing 8ball. I looked around an everytime Efren would shoot the place would stop and watch. Guys playing other matches quit or stopped to watch.
These were not the regulars but Pros. Only one guy didnt seem to be that in awe and that was Tony Drago.
One of my favorite quotes in sports is by George Brett ---
"I've never asked him for an autograph, but I'm going to. Before I quit, I'm going to get him to autograph a baseball for me and autograph a football for me and give me one of his bats. I'm going to save them, and when I finally settle down and have children, when I'm sixty or seventy, and my children ask me what I used to do for a living, I'll tell them, "I played baseball. I played with Bo Jackson."
Some of us will be able to say the same thing about Efren. And they will go Who? lol
wincardona said:
Let someone put up 50k to 100k for a besting of the straight pool high runs and there would be a new high run record set by Reyes.
History has proven it, put up the dough and Efren will get it.
Judd Fuller
Who's efrins cuemaker friend o yea Judd Fuller 60 inch I think. Unmatched player in his lifetime. Wish all th efillippino's could understand english better,speak better. How does the phillippino stroke differ from american style level stroke ?
Who's efrins cuemaker friend o yea Judd Fuller 60 inch I think. Unmatched player in his lifetime. Wish all th efillippino's could understand english better,speak better. How does the phillippino stroke differ from american style level stroke ?
Back when Hollywood Billiards Efren played some 3-c at the second floor.Stones said:
I asked Efren what cue he's going to use as we were going up the stairs. He said he was obligated to use his Meucci pool cue.
He won $150 on a race to 35.
He said he has not played 3-c since 1979.
About the same period some Thai guy beat Luat playing straight-rail.
Luat plays pretty strong straight-rail too being a "carambola king" of the Philippines one time.
Efren played the Thai player and beat him out of $500 here in OC.
frankncali said:
The name you're looking for is Boy Bicol. He's dead now.
gulfportdoc said:
A valid point.
I doubt Ronnie would have played much better, but he certainly would have played his best much longer.
This is what impresses me concerning Billy. He has given the game up a few times, but has taken care of himself and still plays quite impressively at the age of 63.
I'm just curious Bill, but how would you have played Efren in 1978? Now, don't dodge me! LOL!
gulfportdoc said:
However, isn't a part of being the "best ever" characther? Being the best ever is not necessarily about the best pure skills (although Efren may just have that too), but having the characther to hone AND maintain those skills.
If it is allowed for diminished skills due to drinking, shouldn't it be allowed for diminished skills due to laziness and lack of practice. Therefore, from that reasoning, the best ever may have been some short stop somewhere who's skills were diminished by laziness. Just a thought.
wincardona said:
I watched Reyes play straight pool in the tournament they had in Maine and he made running 100 look incredibly easy. I believe if he played straight pool regularly he could run over 100 every day of the week and be among the top 3 straight pool players in the world too.
very good point. this is what i was alluding to in my previous post - it's efren's mental game that is just out of this world.
(woops forgot to quote)
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crosseyedjoe said:
The context was the Phillipines, not the world. 2 completely different "nobody wanted to play him"...
JoeyA said:
Two reasons I can't agree with this.
1) Tiger Woods won almost 50% of the tournaments he played in this year. This in a sport that pays phenomenally, has 150 pros show up every week that he has to beat, and has millions of hopefuls for a few spots. So IMO he dominates a sport that is much tougher to dominate than pool
2) We're judging the entirety of Efren's career while Woods' career is still very young. So in 10 years as a pro, Tiger has dominated the world of golf to a degree that's just sick by any standard.
On the other hand, the whole world of billiards is broader and so there is more of an interdisciplinary nature to what Efren has done AND pool tournaments are different from golf in the sense that every match is mano y mano. A winner and a loser. For golf to be similar, it might be more accurate to judge Tiger's match play record to Efren's...in which case Tiger is also very strong, winning three professional world match play events in a row and 6 national amateur match play titles in a row. Efren got to the finals at the US Open three years in a row, Tiger won the national amateur match play six (3 junior, 3 adult) times in a row. In the pro ranks he won 3 in a row and 6 of 9 at one point IIRC.
In his career he won 61 tourneys in 230 starts, or just over 25%...and he's only getting better. He finished in the top 3 81 times.
I don't think you can make the case that there has ever been another athlete as good as Tiger Woods in ANY sport.
I think the list of all time sports/game performers in our generation would be:
1. Tiger Woods
2. Efren Reyes
3. Michael Jordan
4. Troy Aikman (sorry, just kidding, I had to throw that out there because of a REALLY STUPID column I read when he retired that put him in the same category as Woods and Jordan.)
Cheers,
RC
sixpack said:
I dont think that golf is much harder to dominate than pool. In golf no matter how good your opponnet plays or how good of bounces he gets you still have a chance to tie him or better him.
In pool Efren can play someone inferior to him and still be sitting in the chair. The match can end and Efren will not have been given a chance to tie.
For this reason i would love to see the Pros play either an Equal Offense game or a race to 10 win by 2 set of playing the ghost.
IMO it would be exciting to see two players alternate chances to break and run out. It could be 9-10-11-12 ball ...any of them. But both players would be given equal chances.
Tiger is playing golf at a great level. the question that will always remain in golf is what Jack, Arnie and the others could have done with todays
equipment.
Everyone who thinks Minnesota Fats is,i seem to get that alot when talking to league players and people in bars,maybe they are just drunk.Thunderball said:
This is BD issue with the Pro Peer Review of players based on different skills.
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/current_issue/apr_07/April07Feature.pdf
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/current_issue/apr_07/April07Feature.pdf
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Black-Balled said:
Hmm, that is only assuming Filipino carambole and balkline players in the 60's and 70's as sub-par players.
"My best game is 15-ball rotation. After that comes carom (balkline). My weakest game is 9-ball." --Efren Reyes. I wouldn't bet against him even if he has no championship title in balkline.
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no way
There is no way Efren Reyes or any human can give a pro level player the 7, 8 and the breaks. Efren Reyes is the best ever, but not even he can outrun that spot. If he would like to try, I can get a handful of no name pros that will gladly go bust playing that game.
Danny Kuykendal said:
There is no way Efren Reyes or any human can give a pro level player the 7, 8 and the breaks. Efren Reyes is the best ever, but not even he can outrun that spot. If he would like to try, I can get a handful of no name pros that will gladly go bust playing that game.
billychips said:
I dunno...funnier things have happened by the set for the big bucks!
frankncali said:
Yep, good points. The only reason I was saying that golf is harder to dominate is because there are so many more bona fide pros and more people trying to become pros because of the money.
As for Jack and Arnie. They are great players no doubt, and Arnie used to hit the ball 300+ yards back then, with that equipment so he would be a monster with today's equipment.
I have thought about this extensively and studied old tapes and accounts of those players and even though they are great, the only one who compares with Tiger in determination, preparation and mental focus was Ben Hogan.
Hogan didn't hit the ball particularly far, but he was the purest, most consistent ball striker probably ever. With today's equipment leveling the field a little, I think Ben Hogan would have dominated his era even more and would probably provide some legendary battles with Tiger if they were in their prime together.
Another player who got a lot out of his game that would have benefited very much from today's equipment is Lee Trevino. In terms of mindset, he was IMO better than Tiger, but he was outgunned by sheer ability by Jack and some of the others in his day. If Lee Trevino was able to hit the long ball with today's equipment, he might have been higher on the list too. In those days, Lee was hitting it 235-250 off the tee and Jack was hitting it close to 300 sometimes. If they both used today's gear, Jack would have been hitting 300 and Lee would have been hitting 280. Coming in with an 8 to Jack's wedge instead of a 4 to Jack's 8. Huge difference.
Cheers,
RC
Define "pro-level".billychips said:
Back in the mid 90's , Efren gave Jimmy Wetch the 7 ball and beat him easily.
How good is John Kucharo? Parica gave him the 7-out and the breaks in Vegas. Parical lost but Kucharo's pretty damn good.
Now, there are pros who Kucharo could give the 7-ball too.