Should the TAR table stay as is or go to standard pockets? You choose.

[Maniac]

Fatboy's :

New:


View attachment 258219

If you look closer you'll see a little difference in pocket angle openings.
Firs one is more parallel and rattles less :yes:

This is just one man's opinion, but I think the tighter the pockets are, the less deep the shelves need to be. That picture of Fatboy's pocket (unless I'm seeing it wrong) is insanity. Looser pockets should have the deeper shelves, not the tighter pockets. On Fatboy's pocket, it looks like you could put an object ball deep in the pocket against the inside facing and put a cueball against the short rail and almost not even be able to contact the object ball. Insanity!!!

Maniac

Maniac

 

[Celtic]

Some times some people speed read by only reading every 3 post, when they do that...they always miss the important ones.kg

Actually I did read that and evrryone on this thread is ignoring that maybe it is not the 4 1/8 pockets that are the issue and that should be changed.

If TAR is actually going to spend the money on new rails then how about spending it getting a proper set of rails actually cut exactly like the fatboy rails that yhe elite players actually COULD still perform on?

I am going to guess that if the poll was "get proper fatboy rails with the proper mitre angle that the pros played great on" or "just throw the baby out with the bath water and put on 4.5 inch pocket standard rails" the poll would have been greater then 50% on the actual fatboy rails. The fans of TAR LOVED watching the clinics that SVB put on that table. THOSE 4 1/8th inch pockets are what TAR should have had from the start.

 

[Hungarian]

I think the best option would be to have (2) sets of rails.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Interesting... I did a poll a year ago on this table and it resulted in very similar results. 54% thought it was too tough.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=260388

 

[realkingcobra]

This is just one man's opinion, but I think the tighter the pockets are, the less deep the shelves need to be. That picture of Fatboy's pocket (unless I'm seeing it wrong) is insanity. Looser pockets should have the deeper shelves, not the tighter pockets. On Fatboy's pocket, it looks like you could put an object ball deep in the pocket against the inside facing and put a cueball against the short rail and almost not even be able to contact the object ball. Insanity!!!

Maniac

Maniac

It's an illusion, same slate used for both sets of rails

 

[D WEATHERSBY II]

If pool (or billiards if you so prefer) is going to rise to the level of a sport/game that can provide its best professional performers with compensation commensurate with the earnings of the World’s prominent sports/games, John Q. Public has to become smitten by it. No Mr. Public shall always means no serious advertising dollars without which NO sport/game can rise to the top.

Well folks, Mr. Public is not watching pool. Only we junkies are watching the streams and buying every pay-per-view that’s offered. There are folks who spend four hours or more each week playing pool that are not even considering watching. My town has an APA league with over 350 teams, and I bet less ten players from that league watch the streams, and half of them were turned on to the live streams by me.

I bring my laptop almost every time there is a stream to one of our large pool bars while league is playing. Usually twenty or so of the players will at least stop by to see what’s showing. Last Friday, I had the TAR match streaming and a couple of the players commented that “these guys can’t play a lick” and “(insert local 7’s name here) can beat those guys.”

J. Q. Public does not respect playing that involves missing and safety battles because of tight pockets. Heck, he doesn’t even differentiate between a miss and a safety. He sees his local league hero play that good. Mr. Public himself has made a bank shot or a tough cut and then missed a few shots later. He has to see something that he has no chance of seeing on his gameroom table at the Super Bowl party next weekend if he is to be impressed.

What J. Q. does not see at home or the local tavern is a player that makes forty to fifty consecutive shots in rotation without missing. THAT is the magic that amazes.

Mr. Public has to be entertained. He has to see something he nor any of his buddies can do. Otherwise, he is not going to appreciate and admire the skill, and he is not going to care.

I say give ‘em the bigger pockets and let the packages be delivered! Then maybe, just maybe, Mrs. John Q. Public will tune in too and everyone can come to love this game like we do.

Just my two cents worth. Everyone enjoy the DCC!

Donny

 

[pt109]

I like it how pool played on a standard Diamond pro table is now kiddie pool. If Mosconi were alive today, I would hope that he would have the decency to admit that his run of 526 was BS and nothing special, as it was not performed on a 9' or 10' table with 4" pockets. I would also hope that SVB is not too proud of his kiddie pool 2012 US Open 9 ball win. What a weak "achievement"! In fact, I would hope that the winners of almost all tourneys for the past 100 years would just own up to how piss poor they really play! Seriously, they played on buckets!!!!!!

I like this post....and I got a news flash for y'all...
..the best player wins on 4.5 inch pockets.

I've got a lot of trap pocket experience...at pool and snooker.
...but I've NEVER played on them for pleasure....
...and I don't find watching it a pleasure either.

 

[sfleinen]

It's an illusion, same slate used for both sets of rails

I agree -- that camera angle is deceiving, given that the top of the Diamond table is slightly trapezoidal, and you're looking at a slight angle in the pocket "under" the slate. It gives the impression that the shelf is deeper than it is.

Back on topic with Maniac's point, though, I 100% agree. As the pocket aperture is tightened, there is proportionally less of a need for a deep shelf. And, if the pocket apertures are correctly tightened by extending the rails into the pocket (and not shimming them), this goal is achieved automatically.

No?

-Sean

 

[CreeDo]

I like it how pool played on a standard Diamond pro table is now kiddie pool. If Mosconi were alive today, I would hope that he would have the decency to admit that his run of 526 was BS and nothing special, as it was not performed on a 9' or 10' table with 4" pockets. I would also hope that SVB is not too proud of his kiddie pool 2012 US Open 9 ball win. What a weak "achievement"! In fact, I would hope that the winners of almost all tourneys for the past 100 years would just own up to how piss poor they really play! Seriously, they played on buckets!!!!!!

Can't rep you any more.

Amazing pool happens because of the guy behind the stick, not because of the table. Were small pockets important in making some of the most memorable pool highlights ever? Like Efren's Z-kick? Would Corey's super monkey draw shot be reposted to youtube several times if the object ball rattled? What about earl's million dollar 10-pack, how interesting would it be if he rattled a rail cut at rack #6?

Some of these guys are claiming they'll stop watching if the pros just keep running every rack. If Shane does a 10-pack in a TAR event, will you close the window in disgust because "man, this just proves these diamond 4.5" pockets are a joke." ...or will you keep watching to see if he can pull off #11?

 

[TimKrazyMon]

I see a lot of grumbling that 4 1/8" is too tough and 4 1/2" is too easy. IMHO, split the difference and go with 4 1/4" pockets.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I see a lot of grumbling that 4 1/8" is too tough and 4 1/2" is too easy. IMHO, split the difference and go with 4 1/4" pockets.

Actually the difference would be 4 3/8"

 

[easy-e]

Actually the difference would be 4 3/8"

So close!!!

 

[TimKrazyMon]

Actually the difference would be 4 3/8"

Actually, 4 5/16". But who's counting.

 

[Mr. Bond]

IMO

all pro level games should be played on 10ft tables with 'standard' 4.5" pockets. shrinking them is just redunkulous.

too easy my ass.

truth be told, the VAST majority of people out there have never played a single game on a 10ft table and have no clue how difficult it really is.

on the other hand, if 10ft tables were everywhere, and world record high runs on them were common, i might feel different. but they arent, so i dont.

if lots of pros today had stacks of world championship titles that could hold a candle to Mosconi, Hoppe and Greenleaf, on 10ft tables, i might feel different, but they dont, so i dont.

the 10ft table IS the pro level, like it used to be.
let the bangers and wanna-bees thin the heard on 9footers.


that is all.
its 5 oclock somewhere!

 

[realkingcobra]

I agree -- that camera angle is deceiving, given that the top of the Diamond table is slightly trapezoidal, and you're looking at a slight angle in the pocket "under" the slate. It gives the impression that the shelf is deeper than it is.

Back on topic with Maniac's point, though, I 100% agree. As the pocket aperture is tightened, there is proportionally less of a need for a deep shelf. And, if the pocket apertures are correctly tightened by extending the rails into the pocket (and not shimming them), this goal is achieved automatically.

No?

-Sean

That would be correct, even on a Diamond as you tighten the pockets...the slate shelf becomes less and less.

 

[GARY LLOYD]

Great Post...!!!

If pool (or billiards if you so prefer) is going to rise to the level of a sport/game that can provide its best professional performers with compensation commensurate with the earnings of the World’s prominent sports/games, John Q. Public has to become smitten by it. No Mr. Public shall always means no serious advertising dollars without which NO sport/game can rise to the top.

Well folks, Mr. Public is not watching pool. Only we junkies are watching the streams and buying every pay-per-view that’s offered. There are folks who spend four hours or more each week playing pool that are not even considering watching. My town has an APA league with over 350 teams, and I bet less ten players from that league watch the streams, and half of them were turned on to the live streams by me.

I bring my laptop almost every time there is a stream to one of our large pool bars while league is playing. Usually twenty or so of the players will at least stop by to see what’s showing. Last Friday, I had the TAR match streaming and a couple of the players commented that “these guys can’t play a lick” and “(insert local 7’s name here) can beat those guys.”

J. Q. Public does not respect playing that involves missing and safety battles because of tight pockets. Heck, he doesn’t even differentiate between a miss and a safety. He sees his local league hero play that good. Mr. Public himself has made a bank shot or a tough cut and then missed a few shots later. He has to see something that he has no chance of seeing on his gameroom table at the Super Bowl party next weekend if he is to be impressed.

What J. Q. does not see at home or the local tavern is a player that makes forty to fifty consecutive shots in rotation without missing. THAT is the magic that amazes.

Mr. Public has to be entertained. He has to see something he nor any of his buddies can do. Otherwise, he is not going to appreciate and admire the skill, and he is not going to care.

I say give ‘em the bigger pockets and let the packages be delivered! Then maybe, just maybe, Mrs. John Q. Public will tune in too and everyone can come to love this game like we do.

Just my two cents worth. Everyone enjoy the DCC!

Donny

The title says it all...

 

[nb92]

....

Well folks, Mr. Public is not watching pool. Only we junkies are watching the streams and buying every pay-per-view that’s offered. There are folks who spend four hours or more each week playing pool that are not even considering watching. My town has an APA league with over 350 teams, and I bet less ten players from that league watch the streams, and half of them were turned on to the live streams by me.

I bring my laptop almost every time there is a stream to one of our large pool bars while league is playing. Usually twenty or so of the players will at least stop by to see what’s showing. Last Friday, I had the TAR match streaming and a couple of the players commented that “these guys can’t play a lick” and “(insert local 7’s name here) can beat those guys.”

J. Q. Public does not respect playing that involves missing and safety battles because of tight pockets. Heck, he doesn’t even differentiate between a miss and a safety. He sees his local league hero play that good. Mr. Public himself has made a bank shot or a tough cut and then missed a few shots later. He has to see something that he has no chance of seeing on his gameroom table at the Super Bowl party next weekend if he is to be impressed.

.........

I say give ‘em the bigger pockets and let the packages be delivered! Then maybe, just maybe, Mrs. John Q. Public will tune in too and everyone can come to love this game like we do.

Just my two cents worth. Everyone enjoy the DCC!

Donny

If TAR is going after J.Q. then it is not the pockets... the table is too BIG... bring in the bar box... if JQ wants packages... play winner breaks... maybe someone will run out a set!!! ... a Valley Bar Box might be best as there still more of them out in bars then diamonds... a couple of neon signs instead of Busti's picture would be good because "who the hell is that guy?!".... maybe a drunk guy or girl or two.. wandering around in front of the shooter, sitting their beer on the table... The ideas go on and on...

as for the folks that think 7's can beat SVB or Darren... you should ask them to gamble then beat them so bad they give up pool... LOL

 

[jason]

If TAR is going after J.Q. then it is not the pockets... the table is too BIG... bring in the bar box... if JQ wants packages... play winner breaks... maybe someone will run out a set!!! ... a Valley Bar Box might be best as there still more of them out in bars then diamonds... a couple of neon signs instead of Busti's picture would be good because "who the hell is that guy?!".... maybe a drunk guy or girl or two.. wandering around in front of the shooter, sitting their beer on the table... The ideas go on and on...

as for the folks that think 7's can beat SVB or Darren... you should ask them to gamble then beat them so bad they give up pool... LOL

I actually think it is good for the "APAers" (for lack of a better description) to see the Pro's miss a lot on a stream. I think it will plant the seed that, "Hey I can do that". Then they will think to themselves...I could be a Pro and make all kinds of money (yea, they don't know that part either). They will buy a couple streams, then go play in a couple semi-pro tournaments and BOOM reality hits them. All is good because TAR gets a couple paid streams, tourney players win a little cash from them and if they get addicted like us, then they will be hooked for life.

 

[onepocket1]

Since rotation (9ball-10ball) is the game of choice; I like
4 1/2" pockets. Let the players let out their strokes. Fans like to see racks run. For onepocket, 4 1/8" is fine.

From a viewer standpoint - perhaps a ref to rack the balls, with no re-racks!
Way too much time wasted on the rack. Just one mans opinion.

 

[BeiberLvr]

From a viewer standpoint - perhaps a ref to rack the balls, with no re-racks!
Way too much time wasted on the rack. Just one mans opinion.

TAR is winner racks with the magic rack. I don't think they need a ref for that.