The " old timers " call that being thrown in the river.
Should there be full disclosure in PPV matches?
- Thread starter JCIN
- Start date
The " old timers " call that being thrown in the river.
It would be interesting to know because I am sure Ko didn't put up the $10,000.
Agreed with the two basic premises of this thread.
1) TAR was superior product to this by far
2) full disclosure concerning the nature of the bet is desirable and appropriate
Disagree with the idea that the organizers of this or any other event have any responsibility to would-be side betters. The side betters in pool always know that this is not like betting on football at a Las Vegas. This is betting that lies outside of the boundaries of legal regulation and things can and will happen:
1) your guy might dump
2) your guy might concede a shot or two against what you think reasonable
3) your guy might unscrew before the match is over
4) the announced bet may be inaccurate/misleading due to unannounced "business" and the level of motivation misrepresented
5) you might win your bet but not get paid
Yes, we all know what happened at the 1991 Challenge of Champions at the Mirage, but this sort of stuff isn't restricted to the guys we see as unscrupulous. In 2015 alone:
1) Van Boening unscrewed mid-match at the Pacquiao World 10-ball Championships when he didn't like being penalized for not calling an obvious ten ball. He trailed in the match but we all know what kind of comeback of which Shane's capable.
2) Schmidt unscrewed at the Derby City 14.1 needing about five balls when Jayson Shaw needed about 60.
If you had made a side bet on either of these matches, you have no recourse or right to complain. These things, sadly enough, happen.
In pool, you can bet if you like on the side but you have no assurance of anything being on the level.
1) TAR was superior product to this by far
2) full disclosure concerning the nature of the bet is desirable and appropriate
Disagree with the idea that the organizers of this or any other event have any responsibility to would-be side betters. The side betters in pool always know that this is not like betting on football at a Las Vegas. This is betting that lies outside of the boundaries of legal regulation and things can and will happen:
1) your guy might dump
2) your guy might concede a shot or two against what you think reasonable
3) your guy might unscrew before the match is over
4) the announced bet may be inaccurate/misleading due to unannounced "business" and the level of motivation misrepresented
5) you might win your bet but not get paid
Yes, we all know what happened at the 1991 Challenge of Champions at the Mirage, but this sort of stuff isn't restricted to the guys we see as unscrupulous. In 2015 alone:
1) Van Boening unscrewed mid-match at the Pacquiao World 10-ball Championships when he didn't like being penalized for not calling an obvious ten ball. He trailed in the match but we all know what kind of comeback of which Shane's capable.
2) Schmidt unscrewed at the Derby City 14.1 needing about five balls when Jayson Shaw needed about 60.
If you had made a side bet on either of these matches, you have no recourse or right to complain. These things, sadly enough, happen.
In pool, you can bet if you like on the side but you have no assurance of anything being on the level.
elitecustomcues
Registered
I went out to Steinway Billiards with Dennis Orcollo for the match against Ko Pin Yi. I just want to let everyone know what happened between myself and Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung. There was a tournament back a few months ago out at Steinway. This was the first time I had met them. They kind of asked me then if I was interested in backing any more players but I thought they were joking and told them no. When I went out for the tournament between Dennis Orcollo and Ko Pin Yi they said there backer was no longer giving them money for games. This was brought to me in the middle of the match by Mandy Wu and her boyfriend Dan. The reason they wanted to put a deal together with me now is because they wanted me to back them at Derby. I had no dealings with them before they approached me. I would have never contacted them first because I would have no way to speak/translate with them. Mandy said they had researched me and wanted me to back Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung. I said I would love to back them at Derby because he is one of the best players in the world. I had NO INTENTIONS of putting a deal together with these two prior to going to Steinway Billiards and then them approaching me. This deal did not even come together until about 3 hours before the end of day 3. I told them if we did put a deal together then it was ok but I would not announce anything until after the match being that I was there with Dennis. If you look at Facebook this was not mentioned by Mandy Wu and Ko Pin Yi until AFTER the match was completed. My intentions is to make pool better everyday by bringing these matches together. I thought they would make a great scotch double partners in the future. The paperwork is not even in writing and is just a verbal agreement. They said they would have it drawn up in writing for Derby city classic to be signed. All we have is a verbal agreement that they would like me to back them in different events. If you listened to my commentary during their match you would see that I was a huge Dennis Orcollo fan. My intentions were to bring two great player together for the pool world to watch. I had no involvement of the streaming of this match or anything to do dishonest with this match. I only showed up to watch Dennis play. It was an unbelievable match and I wanted to see it in person. Who wouldn't want to have the two greatest players on their team. Knowing they did not have a backer while in the USA I was just trying to help make a lot of big games. You can talk to Manny at Steinway or anyone that knows me in the pool industry that I am the most honest person and would never do anything to jeopardize the game of pool. All I seen is two guys without a backer for Derby and wanted to help out because they are superstars in the game. I may have become too excited and didn't think before announcing this and the effect it could have. I am sorry if I have offended anybody by my excitement. I have a lot of love for the game because my passion is strong for the game. I love to watch the best of the best play and wish I could someday be as good as them. It was like I was in a dream when they approached me to back them. I never thought in my lifetime that 2 great players would ask me to back them up and I was honored and excited. The Dennis and Shane match is going to be an awesome match to watch and took a lot of time to set up. Dennis has been playing strong and putting a lot of energy into his game. There has always been a thought in the back of my mind who I could put up for Scotch doubles against Woodward and Bergman and so at Steinway when the brothers/Mandy Wu their interpreter approached me I got very excited because I felt I had the team to play Skylar and Justin. Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung would be a powerhouse team and who wouldn't get excited to watch that match. All I went to do for the game of pool is bring a lot of excitement and big matches for everyone to enjoy. As everyone knows in the pool world Justin and Skylar made an announcement that no one could beat them in Scotch double so when the 2 brothers said they wanted me to back them my first reaction was to put them up against Bergman/Woodward and thats the reason we all (Me, Ko Pin Yi, Ko Pin Chung, Mandy Wu and Dan) announced it that night. I was flying back to Illinois and they wanted to make sure they had a verbal confirmation that I would back them at Derby City Classic and that they would type up a contract and sign at Derby. All I want to say is good luck to everyone at Derby and hope everyone watches the match between Dennis and Shane on Feb 11-14. You don't want to miss this event. It seems like a year ago nobody was talking about big matches and now everyone seems to want to watch the best players in pool. I promise the only thing I want for the pool industry is honesty and high integrity. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I have a lot of respect for all the pros and amateurs in the pool industry. I am sorry if people did not enjoy my commentary but sometimes my excitement get the best of me. God Bless to all and good luck in 2016!
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elitecustomcues
Registered
I went out to Steinway Billiards with Dennis Orcollo for the match against Ko Pin Yi. I just want to let everyone know what happened between myself and Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung. There was a tournament back a few months ago out at Steinway. This was the first time I had met them. They kind of asked me then if I was interested in backing any more players but I thought they were joking and told them no. When I went out for the tournament between Dennis Orcollo and Ko Pin Yi they said there backer was no longer giving them money for games. This was brought to me in the middle of the match by Mandy Wu and her boyfriend Dan. The reason they wanted to put a deal together with me now is because they wanted me to back them at Derby. I had no dealings with them before they approached me. I would have never contacted them first because I would have no way to speak/translate with them. Mandy said they had researched me and wanted me to back Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung. I said I would love to back them at Derby because he is one of the best players in the world. I had NO INTENTIONS of putting a deal together with these two prior to going to Steinway Billiards and then them approaching me. This deal did not even come together until about 3 hours before the end of day 3. I told them if we did put a deal together then it was ok but I would not announce anything until after the match being that I was there with Dennis. If you look at Facebook this was not mentioned by Mandy Wu and Ko Pin Yi until AFTER the match was completed. My intentions is to make pool better everyday by bringing these matches together. I thought they would make a great scotch double partners in the future. The paperwork is not even in writing and is just a verbal agreement. They said they would have it drawn up in writing for Derby city classic to be signed. All we have is a verbal agreement that they would like me to back them in different events. If you listened to my commentary during their match you would see that I was a huge Dennis Orcollo fan. My intentions were to bring two great player together for the pool world to watch. I had no involvement of the streaming of this match or anything to do dishonest with this match. I only showed up to watch Dennis play. It was an unbelievable match and I wanted to see it in person. Who wouldn't want to have the two greatest players on their team. Knowing they did not have a backer while in the USA I was just trying to help make a lot of big games. You can talk to Manny at Steinway or anyone that knows me in the pool industry that I am the most honest person and would never do anything to jeopardize the game of pool. All I seen is two guys without a backer for Derby and wanted to help out because they are superstars in the game. I may have become too excited and didn't think before announcing this and the effect it could have. I am sorry if I have offended anybody by my excitement. I have a lot of love for the game because my passion is strong for the game. I love to watch the best of the best play and wish I could someday be as good as them. It was like I was in a dream when they approached me to back them. I never thought in my lifetime that 2 great players would ask me to back them up and I was honored and excited. The Dennis and Shane match is going to be an awesome match to watch and took a lot of time to set up. Dennis has been playing strong and putting a lot of energy into his game. There has always been a thought in the back of my mind who I could put up for Scotch doubles against Woodward and Bergman and so at Steinway when the brothers/Mandy Wu their interpreter approached me I got very excited because I felt I had the team to play Skylar and Justin. Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung would be a powerhouse team and who wouldn't get excited to watch that match. All I went to do for the game of pool is bring a lot of excitement and big matches for everyone to enjoy. As everyone knows in the pool world Justin and Skylar made an announcement that no one could beat them in Scotch double so when the 2 brothers said they wanted me to back them my first reaction was to put them up against Bergman/Woodward and thats the reason we all (Me, Ko Pin Yi, Ko Pin Chung, Mandy Wu and Dan) announced it that night. I was flying back to Illinois and they wanted to make sure they had a verbal confirmation that I would back them at Derby City Classic and that they would type up a contract and sign at Derby. All I want to say is good luck to everyone at Derby and hope everyone watches the match between Dennis and Shane on Feb 11-14. You don't want to miss this event. It seems like a year ago nobody was talking about big matches and now everyone seems to want to watch the best players in pool. I promise the only thing I want for the pool industry is honesty and high integrity. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I have a lot of respect for all the pros and amateurs in the pool industry. I am sorry if people did not enjoy my commentary but sometimes my excitement get the best of me. God Bless to all and good luck in 2016!
One paragraph! Is this some kind of sick joke? I will not read this.
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From-elitecustomcues:
I went out to Steinway Billiards with Dennis Orcollo for the match against Ko Pin Yi. I just want to let everyone know what happened between myself and Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung. There was a tournament back a few months ago out at Steinway. This was the first time I had met them. They kind of asked me then if I was interested in backing any more players but I thought they were joking and told them no.
When I went out for the tournament between Dennis Orcollo and Ko Pin Yi they said there backer was no longer giving them money for games. This was brought to me in the middle of the match by Mandy Wu and her boyfriend Dan. The reason they wanted to put a deal together with me now is because they wanted me to back them at Derby. I had no dealings with them before they approached me. I would have never contacted them first because I would have no way to speak/translate with them.
Mandy said they had researched me and wanted me to back Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung. I said I would love to back them at Derby because he is one of the best players in the world.
I had NO INTENTIONS of putting a deal together with these two prior to going to Steinway Billiards and then them approaching me. This deal did not even come together until about 3 hours before the end of day 3. I told them if we did put a deal together then it was ok but I would not announce anything until after the match being that I was there with Dennis.
If you look at Facebook this was not mentioned by Mandy Wu and Ko Pin Yi until AFTER the match was completed. My intentions is to make pool better everyday by bringing these matches together. I thought they would make a great scotch double partners in the future. The paperwork is not even in writing and is just a verbal agreement. They said they would have it drawn up in writing for Derby city classic to be signed. All we have is a verbal agreement that they would like me to back them in different events.
If you listened to my commentary during their match you would see that I was a huge Dennis Orcollo fan. My intentions were to bring two great player together for the pool world to watch.
I had no involvement of the streaming of this match or anything to do dishonest with this match. I only showed up to watch Dennis play. It was an unbelievable match and I wanted to see it in person. Who wouldn't want to have the two greatest players on their team. Knowing they did not have a backer while in the USA I was just trying to help make a lot of big games. You can talk to Manny at Steinway or anyone that knows me in the pool industry that I am the most honest person and would never do anything to jeopardize the game of pool.
All I seen is two guys without a backer for Derby and wanted to help out because they are superstars in the game. I may have become too excited and didn't think before announcing this and the effect it could have. I am sorry if I have offended anybody by my excitement. I have a lot of love for the game because my passion is strong for the game. I love to watch the best of the best play and wish I could someday be as good as them. It was like I was in a dream when they approached me to back them. I never thought in my lifetime that 2 great players would ask me to back them up and I was honored and excited.
The Dennis and Shane match is going to be an awesome match to watch and took a lot of time to set up. Dennis has been playing strong and putting a lot of energy into his game.
There has always been a thought in the back of my mind who I could put up for Scotch doubles against Woodward and Bergman and so at Steinway when the brothers/Mandy Wu their interpreter approached me I got very excited because I felt I had the team to play Skylar and Justin. Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung would be a powerhouse team and who wouldn't get excited to watch that match.
All I went to do for the game of pool is bring a lot of excitement and big matches for everyone to enjoy. As everyone knows in the pool world Justin and Skylar made an announcement that no one could beat them in Scotch double so when the 2 brothers said they wanted me to back them my first reaction was to put them up against Bergman/Woodward and thats the reason we all (Me, Ko Pin Yi, Ko Pin Chung, Mandy Wu and Dan) announced it that night. I was flying back to Illinois and they wanted to make sure they had a verbal confirmation that I would back them at Derby City Classic and that they would type up a contract and sign at Derby.
All I want to say is good luck to everyone at Derby and hope everyone watches the match between Dennis and Shane on Feb 11-14. You don't want to miss this event.
It seems like a year ago nobody was talking about big matches and now everyone seems to want to watch the best players in pool.
I promise the only thing I want for the pool industry is honesty and high integrity. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I have a lot of respect for all the pros and amateurs in the pool industry.
I am sorry if people did not enjoy my commentary but sometimes my excitement get the best of me. God Bless to all and good luck in 2016!
I went out to Steinway Billiards with Dennis Orcollo for the match against Ko Pin Yi. I just want to let everyone know what happened between myself and Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung. There was a tournament back a few months ago out at Steinway. This was the first time I had met them. They kind of asked me then if I was interested in backing any more players but I thought they were joking and told them no.
When I went out for the tournament between Dennis Orcollo and Ko Pin Yi they said there backer was no longer giving them money for games. This was brought to me in the middle of the match by Mandy Wu and her boyfriend Dan. The reason they wanted to put a deal together with me now is because they wanted me to back them at Derby. I had no dealings with them before they approached me. I would have never contacted them first because I would have no way to speak/translate with them.
Mandy said they had researched me and wanted me to back Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung. I said I would love to back them at Derby because he is one of the best players in the world.
I had NO INTENTIONS of putting a deal together with these two prior to going to Steinway Billiards and then them approaching me. This deal did not even come together until about 3 hours before the end of day 3. I told them if we did put a deal together then it was ok but I would not announce anything until after the match being that I was there with Dennis.
If you look at Facebook this was not mentioned by Mandy Wu and Ko Pin Yi until AFTER the match was completed. My intentions is to make pool better everyday by bringing these matches together. I thought they would make a great scotch double partners in the future. The paperwork is not even in writing and is just a verbal agreement. They said they would have it drawn up in writing for Derby city classic to be signed. All we have is a verbal agreement that they would like me to back them in different events.
If you listened to my commentary during their match you would see that I was a huge Dennis Orcollo fan. My intentions were to bring two great player together for the pool world to watch.
I had no involvement of the streaming of this match or anything to do dishonest with this match. I only showed up to watch Dennis play. It was an unbelievable match and I wanted to see it in person. Who wouldn't want to have the two greatest players on their team. Knowing they did not have a backer while in the USA I was just trying to help make a lot of big games. You can talk to Manny at Steinway or anyone that knows me in the pool industry that I am the most honest person and would never do anything to jeopardize the game of pool.
All I seen is two guys without a backer for Derby and wanted to help out because they are superstars in the game. I may have become too excited and didn't think before announcing this and the effect it could have. I am sorry if I have offended anybody by my excitement. I have a lot of love for the game because my passion is strong for the game. I love to watch the best of the best play and wish I could someday be as good as them. It was like I was in a dream when they approached me to back them. I never thought in my lifetime that 2 great players would ask me to back them up and I was honored and excited.
The Dennis and Shane match is going to be an awesome match to watch and took a lot of time to set up. Dennis has been playing strong and putting a lot of energy into his game.
There has always been a thought in the back of my mind who I could put up for Scotch doubles against Woodward and Bergman and so at Steinway when the brothers/Mandy Wu their interpreter approached me I got very excited because I felt I had the team to play Skylar and Justin. Ko Pin Yi and Ko Pin Chung would be a powerhouse team and who wouldn't get excited to watch that match.
All I went to do for the game of pool is bring a lot of excitement and big matches for everyone to enjoy. As everyone knows in the pool world Justin and Skylar made an announcement that no one could beat them in Scotch double so when the 2 brothers said they wanted me to back them my first reaction was to put them up against Bergman/Woodward and thats the reason we all (Me, Ko Pin Yi, Ko Pin Chung, Mandy Wu and Dan) announced it that night. I was flying back to Illinois and they wanted to make sure they had a verbal confirmation that I would back them at Derby City Classic and that they would type up a contract and sign at Derby.
All I want to say is good luck to everyone at Derby and hope everyone watches the match between Dennis and Shane on Feb 11-14. You don't want to miss this event.
It seems like a year ago nobody was talking about big matches and now everyone seems to want to watch the best players in pool.
I promise the only thing I want for the pool industry is honesty and high integrity. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I have a lot of respect for all the pros and amateurs in the pool industry.
I am sorry if people did not enjoy my commentary but sometimes my excitement get the best of me. God Bless to all and good luck in 2016!
I'm not sure if that picture is large enough.
Sure it is......:grin-square:
Attachments
"No longer, as in not any more, as in I didn't like this idea going in, as in the next match they are going to want to see is you and Shane and you want me to do what? back you for that too you're a tournament player sir"
at least that what i think anyway, but he did say not any more
.......................
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One of these days we will know who Ko's mystery backer is... 
Do you consider telling people a match is for $10K per player and only playing for $2500 per player integrity?
There are two reasons to do the right thing in PPV events. The first is because its the right thing to do and the second is because the only thing pool players are worse at than keeping money is keeping secrets.
Man i thought that was going on for the last 2 years or so. One outfit in particular.Thanks