Swanee payouts

[Colonel]

Just read this entire thread & find some here obviously don't get it. Mark & his organization are rare in that they care about this game & are doing more for it than anyone else out there & I find the attacks on him and his organization troubling. Our sport is dying and people are going to sit and criticize those that are trying to save it? Well I would like to thank Mark for all of his efforts & also thank him for running this tournament in particular that memorialized a great player and person that was a great friend to me in Jay Swanson, the gentle giant. Thank you Mark for running this tournament and for all your efforts in promoting this sport.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I think Mark has done a wonderful thing to honor his friend with this tournament and keeping it running for as long as it has. This is a memorial tournament which we should not forget, it seems many have and its all about the money. I think numbers should be out in the open including on flyers because then people can make a choice on what they want to do about entering. I think having someone run it locally as Cleary said is a smart thing to do. Maybe pass it on to Oscar if he is interested along with possibly getting more sponsors involved so it is profitable along with paying out better then it does.

 

[BasementDweller]

[...]
i see that even after ozzie came on and publicly crunched the numbers we still have several posters running wild with the famous " azb lynch mob mentality " being judge, jury and executioner.
[...]

bump from page 3.

I guess you're looking for a response...

Here's the main thing I've taken away from this thread -- my idea of a "lynch mob mentality" is completely different than most others on this forum. I think this thread was pretty tame and I also think CSI and Ozzy specifically, handled his business just fine.

It's getting next to impossible on this forum for anyone to voice any sort of criticism of anything, without the AZ choir rolling out to complain about the key the song is being sung in. I don't get it really.

If this is the sort of thread that's going to make CSI not want to do business, then they probably don't want to do business. Overall, the criticism was pretty mild if you ask me and while we are at it – several posters have had their unknown intentions attacked instead of just focusing on the substance of their complaints. In my book – that’s not cool.

There's a lot wrong with professional pool and I think it's important that we are able to discuss all of it. In the process of doing this, there are going to be the few odd balls that cue too low and send the cue ball flying off the table but you can’t let them ruin an entire thread.

I guess in the end, it will be up to the powers that be to chew on the meat and spit out the bones but I do think there's some meat here.

 

[cardiac kid]

Several recent posters have made excellent points regarding the Swanee event. Last thing I want to see is CSI discontinue promoting events. Having said that, don't think they should be given a "free" ride to do whatever they see fit either. The commentary on this thread should be a reminder the PLAYERS are paying attention. Without promoters like CSI there would be no tournaments. Without the players, the same result occurs. No one can be held above reproach. How does the saying go, people who live in glass houses..... JMHO.

Lyn

 

[BasementDweller]

Several recent posters have made excellent points regarding the Swanee event. Last thing I want to see is CSI discontinue promoting events. Having said that, don't think they should be given a "free" ride to do whatever they see fit either. The commentary on this thread should be a reminder the PLAYERS are paying attention. Without promoters like CSI there would be no tournaments. Without the players, the same result occurs. No one can be held above reproach. How does the saying go, people who live in glass houses..... JMHO.

Lyn

Sums it up perfectly. Well said.

 

[Jaden]

Actually one correction...

the 1st thing i want to say is...its good to see mark as feisty as ever during his recovery from surgery in defense of his organization! i have disagreed with his stance a time or 2 regarding bcapl but i highly respect him for his attempts to help pool in general.

ozzie sent me a pm in regards to a post i made a while back. his comments in that pm earned him some respect from me also. he never did answer 2 questions i posed in that thread though. :grin-square:

i see some one took out their fine tooth comb and crunched the numbers for the latest tourny. yep their numbers don't add up so mark must have shafted the players . this subject has been brought up many times on this forum and every time, most posters agreed that the words " added money " is a misnomer.

i see that even after ozzie came on and publicly crunched the numbers we still have several posters running wild with the famous " azb lynch mob mentality " being judge, jury and executioner.

so i understand mark made 1,600.0 and some change off this tourny. the nerve of him to bring people from his office in nevada to california and run a tourny and make a few dollars. mark should have done it for free and put that money in the players pockets...right fellas ?

the nerve of hard times charging an admission fee .. making a few dollars and being able to stay open another year.

the nerve of charging a ppv fee. it oughta be free also. all this doing stuff for nothing and every thing oughta be free reminds me of a few threads a while back where people said money leagues oughta pay 100 % back.

pool is the only bussiness i have ever heard of where people complain about some one making money off of it.

when mark makes a full recovery ...which i hope is speedy. he may come on here like he did once before when his integrity was questioned and tell every one to kiss his ass. :grin-square:

then again he may decide his tireless efforts to promote pool aint worth the mud slung in his direction due to threads like this and say fvck it and quit. would that make you guys happy? with some of the posts i am reading in this thread a lot of you apparently do not appreciate his efforts unless he is doing it for free which i understand he has done more than once.

They didn't MAKE 1600, they LOST 1600...

Jaden

 

[one stroke]

Several recent posters have made excellent points regarding the Swanee event. Last thing I want to see is CSI discontinue promoting events. Having said that, don't think they should be given a "free" ride to do whatever they see fit either. The commentary on this thread should be a reminder the PLAYERS are paying attention. Without promoters like CSI there would be no tournaments. Without the players, the same result occurs. No one can be held above reproach. How does the saying go, people who live in glass houses..... JMHO.

Lyn

I don't believe it's near as hard to promote a turny as its made out to be .. We live in the social media age getting the word out is simply not that hard ,

1

 

[cleary]

Without promoters like CSI there would be no tournaments.

That may be true for large national tournaments like USBTC etc but there are plenty of tournaments out there that 95% of the Swanee field can play in and probably always will be.

I agree that CSI does good for pool and I'm in no way against them, but I'll always call someone on something I feel is wrong. IMO charging late fees is unnecessary and pocketing them is wrong.

 

[Mark Griffin]

Swanee

You know, Cleary is an interesting guy. And we get along pretty good - I'm probably glad he lives in NYC and not Vegas
BUT ......

He and I are just not going to agree on some of the responsibilities that the players need to do. One is to register in a timely fashion - or to pay some possible consequences.

Many times decisions are made based upon participation. But if everyone waits till the day of the event, and things get to become a cluster ---- guess who gets blamed? The promoter.

These procedures have evolved because of past incidences. Let's not make it a bigger issue than it is. This also 'dovetails' with our policies of not being allowed to sell or substitute players spots. All players are treated exactly the same.

Thank you for your anticipated understanding.

Mark Grifin

That may be true for large national tournaments like USBTC etc but there are plenty of tournaments out there that 95% of the Swanee field can play in and probably always will be.

I agree that CSI does good for pool and I'm in no way against them, but I'll always call someone on something I feel is wrong. IMO charging late fees is unnecessary and pocketing them is wrong.

 

[Mark Griffin]

Swanee

I think Mark has done a wonderful thing to honor his friend with this tournament and keeping it running for as long as it has. This is a memorial tournament which we should not forget, it seems many have and its all about the money. I think numbers should be out in the open including on flyers because then people can make a choice on what they want to do about entering. I think having someone run it locally as Cleary said is a smart thing to do. Maybe pass it on to Oscar if he is interested along with possibly getting more sponsors involved so it is profitable along with paying out better then it does.

Sorry- but this is an asset that belongs to CSI. I personally ran 15 of the first 16 events. It is not just going to be 'given' away so it can be more profitable or paying out more. And I see absolutely no advantage of 'running it locally'. The biggest factor is who controls the venue and how to make the room a winner- without hurting the players etc. HardTimes is very unique in that there is limited food and no liquor. Just cannot overcome the additional expenses.

There are some important issues that need to be addresses. The primary one is that there are no venues large enough or wiling to hold these type of events. This years event came within 1week of being cancelled completely.

So a major challenge is to restructure the event. And everyone calls this 'pro pool' - in my mind this event has become more of a social event. It was never intended to be a 'pro event'. Too many have let the money overshadow the reason for the tournament.

So, in passing, since I have about 3 months rehab in Phoenix, perhaps I'll change the event to readily fulfill it's rightful place. And as far as complaints - fire away. And if it was so easy, then why don't you go do an event for the next 10-20 years.

I will admit this year was a little strange. From chasing venues, to my health, to several changes in our internal operations. The fact the event even happened is a small miracle.

But a mild warning. This is America. I am under no obligation to divulge where every penny goes in a tournament situation. I think a player should know the basic information such as green fees etc. But to start accusing CSI of stealing the money ( when you don't have a clue as to the truth) - please try to ask and act in a responsible fashion. This year did show me some things.

I would prefer that some people stay home and watch Jerry Springer. We would both be a lot happier!

Mark Griffin

 

[cardiac kid]

I don't believe it's near as hard to promote a turny as its made out to be .. We live in the social media age getting the word out is simply not that hard ,

1

Stroke,

It is way harder than you think. Even with social media involved. I don't do Facebook, Twitter, etc. Find out about an event usually by seeing a flyer, viisiting the website of places who've held events before, good old word of mouth and AZ's forum. Assuming you do ge the word out, where are you going to hold the event? Do you own a pool room? NO? Now find one to " rent" their tables so you can hold the tournament. Found one? Now find a tournament director and someone to run the player auction. Who's going to supply the event charts? Got the event set up? Now how many players are going to play? Set up an on-line entry system. Who pays for the credit card fees? How many players will show up? Hum, better set an early entry date then charge late fees. The list goes on and on. WOULD YOU DO IT FOR FREE? Thought so!

Lyn

 

[cleary]

But a mild warning. This is America. I am under no obligation to divulge where every penny goes in a tournament situation. I think a player should know the basic information such as green fees etc. But to start accusing CSI of stealing the money ( when you don't have a clue as to the truth) - please try to ask and act in a responsible fashion. This year did show me some things.

You don't have to... but just as "this is America" and you don't have to divulge information, others also have the right to speculate or even criticize.

 

[cleary]

Stroke,

It is way harder than you think. Even with social media involved. I don't do Facebook, Twitter, etc. Find out about an event usually by seeing a flyer, viisiting the website of places who've held events before, good old word of mouth and AZ's forum. Assuming you do ge the word out, where are you going to hold the event? Do you own a pool room? NO? Now find one to " rent" their tables so you can hold the tournament. Found one? Now find a tournament director and someone to run the player auction. Who's going to supply the event charts? Got the event set up? Now how many players are going to play? Set up an on-line entry system. Who pays for the credit card fees? How many players will show up? Hum, better set an early entry date then charge late fees. The list goes on and on. WOULD YOU DO IT FOR FREE? Thought so!

Lyn

This post might be true if you wanted to create an event out of nowhere, but not so much for a long standing event that's held in a poolroom. If I lived in LA and played at Hardtimes, I would gladly promote, run and even collect entry fees for this event start to finish for 50% profit. Considering they lose money every year, it would be a heck of a deal for them. But I live far far away so whatever. lol

 

[yobagua]

I think Mark has done a wonderful thing to honor his friend with this tournament and keeping it running for as long as it has. This is a memorial tournament which we should not forget, it seems many have and its all about the money. I think numbers should be out in the open including on flyers because then people can make a choice on what they want to do about entering. I think having someone run it locally as Cleary said is a smart thing to do. Maybe pass it on to Oscar if he is interested along with possibly getting more sponsors involved so it is profitable along with paying out better then it does.

Sorry youre not making sense here Lenny. Griffin has invested a lot of time and energy in this project and he is now expected to hand it over to someone else?
You yourself had some problems recently with defective products. Should your company be turned over to Accu-stats to distribute? No!
We have to give a margin of error to someone trying to create something positive for the industry. Unless you think Griffin is doing otherewise then maybe.
But did he make money out of what seems like a passion for him? No!
The man had a lung transplant for christsakes!

I think he and those in his organization know they can do a better job. We all can.
There is an old maxim in war and politics. Know your friends and most of all know your enemies. Mark I believe is a friend.

 

[cardiac kid]

This post might be true if you wanted to create an event out of nowhere, but not so much for a long standing event that's held in a poolroom. If I lived in LA and played at Hardtimes, I would gladly promote, run and even collect entry fees for this event start to finish for 50% profit. Considering they lose money every year, it would be a heck of a deal for them. But I live far far away so whatever. lol

Andrew,

Every event is a new creation. As Mark mentioned in one of his latest posts, this event came within a week of being cancelled. Even old events are subject to being overlooked by the players who supported them for years. My post was a direct comment on "one strokes" quoted post. NO event is easy to realize. Takes lots and lots of hard work to make it look easy.

Glad to see Mark is as fisty as ever. If for nothing else, I would miss his commentary on the state of the game if he chose to reel in his (CSI) promotion efforts on our behalf.

Lyn

 

[PINKLADY]

Andrew,

Every event is a new creation. As Mark mentioned in one of his latest posts, this event came within a week of being cancelled. Even old events are subject to being overlooked by the players who supported them for years. My post was a direct comment on "one strokes" quoted post. NO event is easy to realize. Takes lots and lots of hard work to make it look easy.

Glad to see Mark is as fisty as ever. If for nothing else, I would miss his commentary on the state of the game if he chose to reel in his (CSI) promotion efforts on our behalf.

Lyn

preserved.
and perhaps the players simply couldn't get their shit together? a deadline is a deadline.
this is really getting getting old.

 

[watchez]

Sorry- but this is an asset that belongs to CSI. I personally ran 15 of the first 16 events. It is not just going to be 'given' away so it can be more profitable or paying out more. And I see absolutely no advantage of 'running it locally'. The biggest factor is who controls the venue and how to make the room a winner- without hurting the players etc. HardTimes is very unique in that there is limited food and no liquor. Just cannot overcome the additional expenses.

There are some important issues that need to be addresses. The primary one is that there are no venues large enough or wiling to hold these type of events. This years event came within 1week of being cancelled completely.

So a major challenge is to restructure the event. And everyone calls this 'pro pool' - in my mind this event has become more of a social event. It was never intended to be a 'pro event'. Too many have let the money overshadow the reason for the tournament.

So, in passing, since I have about 3 months rehab in Phoenix, perhaps I'll change the event to readily fulfill it's rightful place. And as far as complaints - fire away. And if it was so easy, then why don't you go do an event for the next 10-20 years.

I will admit this year was a little strange. From chasing venues, to my health, to several changes in our internal operations. The fact the event even happened is a small miracle.

But a mild warning. This is America. I am under no obligation to divulge where every penny goes in a tournament situation. I think a player should know the basic information such as green fees etc. But to start accusing CSI of stealing the money ( when you don't have a clue as to the truth) - please try to ask and act in a responsible fashion. This year did show me some things.

I would prefer that some people stay home and watch Jerry Springer. We would both be a lot happier!

Mark Griffin

I hear the California Billiard Club is going to reopen. I don't live in the area so all I know is what I am told, but it has a large quantity of tables and an owner with deep pockets willing to give back to the sport......such as a rumor of a $25K added event in the near future. I only say this as this may be a better spot to hold the Swaneee and a field of almost 200 people. Obviously not in the LA direct market but the players would still come and the Mezz tour doesn't seem to hurt for participation when they go outside the LA market.

Beyond that - as I already posted - CSI shouldn't have to divulge their bottom line and Ozzy gave more than required info in that respect. If I promoted a pool event and it required Green Fees to make the bottom line happen, I would state as such on the flyer and leave it at that. No more needs to be said. As a participant, I simply ask that it be stated by any promoter.

 

[bfdlad]

Stroke,

It is way harder than you think. Even with social media involved. I don't do Facebook, Twitter, etc. Find out about an event usually by seeing a flyer, viisiting the website of places who've held events before, good old word of mouth and AZ's forum. Assuming you do ge the word out, where are you going to hold the event? Do you own a pool room? NO? Now find one to " rent" their tables so you can hold the tournament. Found one? Now find a tournament director and someone to run the player auction. Who's going to supply the event charts? Got the event set up? Now how many players are going to play? Set up an on-line entry system. Who pays for the credit card fees? How many players will show up? Hum, better set an early entry date then charge late fees. The list goes on and on. WOULD YOU DO IT FOR FREE? Thought so!
Lyn

Kid, although everything you pointed out is to me correct there is a lot more to get done to make most any event happen. How about getting sponsors on board? I mean you have to cover the added money from somewhere or now you got to pay it out of your pocket. what to stream it? Get a PPV guy to your event and a hotel room unless you have a streamer locally and that isn't always the case and they don't always do it for free. Lots of $$ going out and nothing but risk of getting it back.

I was looking to do a PPV Challenge match and could not decide on the players. I called one and he said "I will do it but only if you split the profit of the event with me" I said "That's fine but if we don't get the PPV numbers needed or the gate is weak and we don't get enough sponsorship to cover the prize fund and other costs will you go in with me to pay the losses on the even?" Well I am sure you can imagine the response I got.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Sorry- but this is an asset that belongs to CSI. I personally ran 15 of the first 16 events. It is not just going to be 'given' away so it can be more profitable or paying out more. And I see absolutely no advantage of 'running it locally'. The biggest factor is who controls the venue and how to make the room a winner- without hurting the players etc. HardTimes is very unique in that there is limited food and no liquor. Just cannot overcome the additional expenses.

There are some important issues that need to be addresses. The primary one is that there are no venues large enough or wiling to hold these type of events. This years event came within 1week of being cancelled completely.

So a major challenge is to restructure the event. And everyone calls this 'pro pool' - in my mind this event has become more of a social event. It was never intended to be a 'pro event'. Too many have let the money overshadow the reason for the tournament.

So, in passing, since I have about 3 months rehab in Phoenix, perhaps I'll change the event to readily fulfill it's rightful place. And as far as complaints - fire away. And if it was so easy, then why don't you go do an event for the next 10-20 years.

I will admit this year was a little strange. From chasing venues, to my health, to several changes in our internal operations. The fact the event even happened is a small miracle.

But a mild warning. This is America. I am under no obligation to divulge where every penny goes in a tournament situation. I think a player should know the basic information such as green fees etc. But to start accusing CSI of stealing the money ( when you don't have a clue as to the truth) - please try to ask and act in a responsible fashion. This year did show me some things.

I would prefer that some people stay home and watch Jerry Springer. We would both be a lot happier!

Mark Griffin

I should have been a bit more clear about my point of the tournament being a memorial tournament and not about the money referring to the players who attend and not about yourself and the room. I don't see anything wrong with the event making money. My issue is if you are operating at a loss what is wrong with passing it on to someone who can make it profitable while having Csi still involved and retain video rights or just hire someone local in CA as staff to run it to cut cost.

 

[one stroke]

Andrew,

Every event is a new creation. As Mark mentioned in one of his latest posts, this event came within a week of being cancelled. Even old events are subject to being overlooked by the players who supported them for years. My post was a direct comment on "one strokes" quoted post. NO event is easy to realize. Takes lots and lots of hard work to make it look easy.

Glad to see Mark is as fisty as ever. If for nothing else, I would miss his commentary on the state of the game if he chose to reel in his (CSI) promotion efforts on our behalf.

Lyn

Hold on there hot rod you spewed off into a whole bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with promoting a event ,,
1st this event has a home and tables it's also a event that happens yr after yr ,,second it's not 1950 , between email Facebook , Instagram and so on getting the word out simply is not that hard ,,
Yes someone like Cleary could run this turny ,, you don't need that much added money when less money is coming off the top


1