They never saw the $$$$....

[jay helfert]

Unfortunately, Fatboy's post is correct. i have been in communication with Chuck since last Thursday when it first surfaced that the checks were no good. After four days of repeated promises he quit returning my calls today. He has told several different stories to people about why this happened and what he was going to do about it. So far that's all they are, good stories.

I am at my wit's end dealing with this man. It was all I could do to help him rescue this event when the hotel soured on the deal, and now this. I've had a million dollars worth of aggravation dealing with him in the last two weeks. He did show Frank Alvarez (President of the UPA) and me a bank statement showing enough money to cover most of the prize fund on the first day of the tournament. I reminded him that no matter what, the prize money is SACRED! Well, he didn't get the message.

Chuck actually paid places 7th-16th in cash, and cashed Rob Saez's check for $2,800 on the final day. He owed me $2,500 for directing the tournament, minus the entry fee I paid for Dave Hemmah. So I got a $2,100 check which came back on Saturday. I am quite willing to be in the back of the line for getting paid. I want the pool players paid NOW! PERIOD!!! And Chuck knows this. I don't care what kind of problems he is having with his other business. He made a promise to pay and he will, or go to jail!

I have been in touch with the Phoenix Police Department and Maricopa County Check Enforcement Division. They take these kind of things quite seriously and I plan to fly over and press charges against him. I have a copy of my bad check, and I will try to get copies of the players checks as well. I no longer have any sympathy for this guy. He has been lying to me for several days now, telling me that he was taking care of everything.

I have been a bulldog on Chuck's ass for days now, calling him night and day. I WILL NOT REST UNTIL ALL THE PLAYERS HAVE BEEN PAID!

 

[punter]

Unfortunately, Fatboy's post is correct. i have been in communication with Chuck since last Thursday when it first surfaced that the checks were no good. After four days of repeated promises he quit returning my calls today. He has told several different stories to people about why this happened and what he was going to do about it. So far that's all they are, good stories.

I am at my wit's end dealing with this man. It was all I could do to help him rescue this event when the hotel soured on the deal, and now this. I've had a million dollars worth of aggravation dealing with him in the last two weeks. He did show Frank Alvarez (President of the UPA) and me a bank statement showing enough money to cover most of the prize fund on the first day of the tournament. I reminded him that no matter what, the prize money is SACRED! Well, he didn't get the message.

Chuck actually paid places 7th-16th in cash, and cashed Rob Saez's check for $2,800 on the final day. He owed me $2,500 for directing the tournament, minus the entry fee I paid for Dave Hemmah. So I got a $2,100 check which came back on Saturday. I am quite willing to be in the back of the line for getting paid. I want the pool players paid NOW! PERIOD!!! And Chuck knows this. I don't care what kind of problems he is having with his other business. He made a promise to pay and he will, or go to jail!

I have been in touch with the Phoenix Police Department and Maricopa County Check Enforcement Division. They take these kind of things quite seriously and I plan to fly over and press charges against him. I have a copy of my bad check, and I will try to get copies of the players checks as well. I no longer have any sympathy for this guy. He has been lying to me for several days now, telling me that he was taking care of everything.

I have been a bulldog on Chuck's ass for days now, calling him night and day. I WILL NOT REST UNTIL ALL THE PLAYERS HAVE BEEN PAID!

Sorry to hear about this, Jay. You are to be commended for your commitment not only to the game, but to the players as well. I hope things turn out for you. ... Just wondering what kinda rep Chuck had down in Ariz., previous to this action.

 

[beetle]

I have been a bulldog on Chuck's ass for days now, calling him night and day. I WILL NOT REST UNTIL ALL THE PLAYERS HAVE BEEN PAID!

Sorry you have to keep going through this Jay. I hope this ends positively and not with him hanging in a shed somewhere, if you know what I mean...

 

[jay helfert]

Sorry to hear about this, Jay. You are to be commended for your commitment not only to the game, but to the players as well. I hope things turn out for you. ... Just wondering what kinda rep Chuck had down in Ariz., previous to this action.

He had a good rep, helping out with sponsorship and added money in many local tournaments. That's the main reason I got involved with him. Of course, none of these were major events with this kind of added money (25K).

 

[Fatboy]

The only thing I ever criticized Fatboy for was the manner he readily acknowledges that he made his $$$ (that's Fatboy for money) by telemarketing and relishing in the fact that he was reeling in another unsuspecting sucker.

.

i havent done that since 95, and the $$$ I made like that accounts for less than 1% of my net worth, I did some bad things, no dount. I wont hide that fact of lie about it. And yeah at the time I was so down and out I loved it, now I feel like shit about what I did wrong 13 years ago.


i have no beef or anger with anyone here on AZ, hell I like everyone. Even Cincydude I rep him as much as possible. i want to see him climb in the ranks

 

[rackem]

No wonder the original Hotel wanted their money up front.

 

[cuejoey]

He had a good rep, helping out with sponsorship and added money in many local tournaments. That's the main reason I got involved with him. Of course, none of these were major events with this kind of added money (25K).

Geez Jay Actionhound now this so soon..I wish you and all the others involved the very best...The authorites will charge him and hopefully get a plea and have him pay all of you plus expenses for restitution...Maricopa Cty maybe he can get some TENT time too...Best to you Jay...Most sincerly Cj....

 

[SJDinPHX]

Feeling REAL bad !

He had a good rep, helping out with sponsorship and added money in many local tournaments. That's the main reason I got involved with him. Of course, none of these were major events with this kind of added money (25K).

Jay,
In hindsight,I wish I had spoken up, regarding Chuck Bobbitt. Everything seemed to be going so well, I could not believe he was not legit. The Dust-Off went smoothly and I thought he was on firm ground financially.

A few years ago, a good friend of mine loaned C.B. $2000.00 toward his start up of "New Images" It took a lot of serious dunning for him to finally get his money back $100.-200 at a time.

However it washes out, it is a black eye for Arizona pool, Kolby's (an innocent party trying to bail Chuck out) and all the guy's trying to promote pool in our state.

This was a real treat for the pool fans in our town, to get to see the strongest field ever assembled here at one time. You and Bull did a great job, and the tournament itself was a real success.

Please, all you AZB'ers, do not give up on pool in Arizona. There are guy's like Jimmy Mendosa and Dennis (and others) who are promoting very well run tournaments, where the payoff's will always be there.

It's human nature for the players to flock to where the big money is. I guess we need to revert back to the old days...when the money gets too big....
POST UP !!!

Dick

PS I hope you don't have to come over to Phx for this, but if you need any help here in town, please give me a call, I DO know some people.

 

[Mark Griffin]

$$$$

First of all, I think this is terrible for pool. Chuck Bobbitt has really supported pool in the past. Unfortunately he put his money into a project that failed miserably. I am guessing he lost minimum $30K.

This shows how fragile the pool promoting business is. I do not feel sorry for Chuck-but I do feel bad that he is now "in trouble" for trying to hold a pool event.

I'm going to say a couple of things. This was a UPA event. Remember back when the US Open could not pay (1991?) and there was a ltof of debate on what UPA sanctioning meant?

In Dec of 2007, I threw-out the idea of becoming an escrow holding type of company for the players. It did not get a lot of response. This is not a new problem. It is probably time to revisit my earlier posts.

I personally am tired of all the problems that are in the pool industry. I LOST over $80,000 when I did the Qlympics last November. Everybody got PAID on the spot. Several of the LARGE events still do not pay at the time of the win.

Now you have the BCA and UPA is open warfare, with the threat of boycotting WPA events. It will never happen. Maybe I will really crank up the heat and throw in my hat for doing events and a "tour". I honestly think I can do a better job running this than those that are attempting. Just my thoughts - but I am sure welcome to comments. (I must be getting frustrated to even think this).

PLease chase me down at the BCAPL event in Vegas. May 7-17. My curiosity is gonna kill me to see the response I get!

Mark Griffin
BCAPL
markg@playbca.com

 

[Prince]

Jay,
In hindsight,I wish I had spoken up, regarding Chuck Bobbitt. Everything seemed to be going so well, I could not believe he was not legit. The Dust-Off went smoothly and I thought he was on firm ground financially.

A few years ago, a good friend of mine loaned C.B. $2000.00 toward his start up of "New Images" It took a lot of serious dunning for him to finally get his money back $100.-200 at a time.

However it washes out, it is a black eye for Arizona pool, Kolby's (an innocent party trying to bail Chuck out) and all the guy's trying to promote pool in our state.

This was a real treat for the pool fans in our town, to get to see the strongest field ever assembled here at one time. You and Bull did a great job, and the tournament itself was a real success.

Please, all you AZB'ers, do not give up on pool in Arizona. There are guy's like Jimmy Mendosa and Dennis (and others) who are promoting very well run tournaments, where the payoff's will always be there.

It's human nature for the players to flock to where the big money is. I guess we need to revert back to the old days...when the money gets too big....
POST UP !!!

Dick

PS I hope you don't have to come over to Phx for this, but if you need any help here in town, please give me a call, I DO know some people.

Thanks Dick. I was hoping someone would post a little something about the tour, and the good things others in Arizona are doing for pool. This is certainly a black eye for us here in Arizona, but rest assured, we will still continue to do good things for the Az. pool scene.

The photo that was put on this thread shows me and Scott Frost, along with Chuck Bobbitt. As many know, Chuck was the title sponsor of our NON PROFIT tour this year. I certainly hope no one associates this failed event with the Arizona Desert Classic Tour. We have only had two events, and yes, I always make sure the money is available. In the event it would not be, I would personally pay it myself. The only difference is our tour stops are not 25K added, so i realize this is not possible, nor would i ever suggest it for this incident.

It's unfortunate that this occurred and there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for it. Although i did not cash in the tourney, I supported it by paying my entry fee, which actually ended up costing me over $1600 out of my pocket (due to lost work time). Had i known the money was not there, i would have never considered playing, just like the rest.

All I can say is I hope everyone that cashed gets paid, including Jay. They all took their time to play and played their hearts out for a lot of people, and they deserve their money NOW!

Dennis

 

[JoeyInCali]

First of all, I think this is terrible for pool. Chuck Bobbitt has really supported pool in the past. Unfortunately he put his money into a project that failed miserably. I am guessing he lost minimum $30K.

This shows how fragile the pool promoting business is. I do not feel sorry for Chuck-but I do feel bad that he is now "in trouble" for trying to hold a pool event.

I'm going to say a couple of things. This was a UPA event. Remember back when the US Open could not pay (1991?) and there was a ltof of debate on what UPA sanctioning meant?

In Dec of 2007, I threw-out the idea of becoming an escrow holding type of company for the players. It did not get a lot of response. This is not a new problem. It is probably time to revisit my earlier posts.

I personally am tired of all the problems that are in the pool industry. I LOST over $80,000 when I did the Qlympics last November. Everybody got PAID on the spot. Several of the LARGE events still do not pay at the time of the win.

Now you have the BCA and UPA is open warfare, with the threat of boycotting WPA events. It will never happen. Maybe I will really crank up the heat and throw in my hat for doing events and a "tour". I honestly think I can do a better job running this than those that are attempting. Just my thoughts - but I am sure welcome to comments. (I must be getting frustrated to even think this).

PLease chase me down at the BCAPL event in Vegas. May 7-17. My curiosity is gonna kill me to see the response I get!

Mark Griffin
BCAPL
markg@playbca.com

I pray that LA Open comes back somehow.

 

[JB Cases]

MARK GRIFFIN - PLEASE SAVE PROFESSIONAL POOL IN THE USA.

SERIOUSLY!

Take $1 dollar per week per BCA League player and use that to finance the infrastructure for your PRO tour. Integrate it tightly with the BCA leagues and provide a Path to the Pros through leagues.

Have your Professionals become salesmen and women for their Tour and make them interact with the fans.

I am sure that if you figured out a way to have your members support the logistics of a Pro Tour then the rest will fall into place.

Wasn't the UPA supposed to make sure that funds are in escrow before sanctioning events?

Well, the Germans say trust is good but control is better.

 

[av84fun]

Hi Mark,

I would be a great mistake to interpret my comments as being disrespectful of the players because I care very much about many of them.

Having said that, with the VERY, VERY checkered history of pro tournaments...even "majors" like the Open you referred to and the GIANT air barrel that KT fired, I just can't BELIEVE that the top pros would not get together and DEMAND that prize money be posted...GUARANTEED IN ADVANCE before their cars ever got past their mail boxes.

I recall you made a proposal for an escrow service and am amazed that it fell of deaf ears.

But again...with as much respect as I can muster, the pros have only themselves to blame since they have a LONG history of not being able to agree about much.

They all seem to be loan wolves and that attitude has hurt organized men's pool VERY badly over the years.

Nothing is EVER going to change until the players unite into an Association of some sort AND STICK TO IT.

Sadly, the line should be 3-1 against anything like that happening because without a WELL FINANCED entity in which the players could believe, they probably feel it is pointless to have a STRONG organization because too many of them will break ranks and play in small money events because they need to pay their bills.

Conversely, if there was a CREDIBLE entity that would POST 2-3 seasons of 80-10 tournaments with $15-20k first place money...and scaled reasonably down from there, then many of them WOULD organize and dedicate themselves to such a tour and not play in competing small money events at the risk of losing their tour cards.

But as you know better than anyone, such a Tour would be a multi-million dollar commitment and would rely almost entirely on getting TV sponsorship far in excess of what has been the case in the past few years.

You wanted feedback and I hope this isn't more than what you cared to read but it is my viewpoint.

Regards,
Jim

PS: I mean no disrespect to the FEW fine regional tours out there that are about all the pros have these days other than a few one off events.

First of all, I think this is terrible for pool. Chuck Bobbitt has really supported pool in the past. Unfortunately he put his money into a project that failed miserably. I am guessing he lost minimum $30K.

This shows how fragile the pool promoting business is. I do not feel sorry for Chuck-but I do feel bad that he is now "in trouble" for trying to hold a pool event.

I'm going to say a couple of things. This was a UPA event. Remember back when the US Open could not pay (1991?) and there was a ltof of debate on what UPA sanctioning meant?

In Dec of 2007, I threw-out the idea of becoming an escrow holding type of company for the players. It did not get a lot of response. This is not a new problem. It is probably time to revisit my earlier posts.

I personally am tired of all the problems that are in the pool industry. I LOST over $80,000 when I did the Qlympics last November. Everybody got PAID on the spot. Several of the LARGE events still do not pay at the time of the win.

Now you have the BCA and UPA is open warfare, with the threat of boycotting WPA events. It will never happen. Maybe I will really crank up the heat and throw in my hat for doing events and a "tour". I honestly think I can do a better job running this than those that are attempting. Just my thoughts - but I am sure welcome to comments. (I must be getting frustrated to even think this).

PLease chase me down at the BCAPL event in Vegas. May 7-17. My curiosity is gonna kill me to see the response I get!

Mark Griffin
BCAPL
markg@playbca.com

 

[hilla_hilla]

There should be some time of players union or something of the sort. Or is there one already?

 

[Fatboy]

Mark G. is a stand up guy.

Chuck isnt. However I know the business he is in and since his last event he has lost a ton of $$$ in his "Day job". So he had a decision to make, cancel the event and disappoint everyone or fire an air-barrel tournment. He perhaps had the $$$ when he did the last one, alot has happened in his biz, Fatboy aint as "Fat" either, but rest assured if I made a commitment to support an event I would post up.

 

[junksecret]

Well, I'm stunned (yet sadly not surprised) at this news.

1st to Jay, Hats off to you for what I am told was a very well directed tournament, and then after getting cuffed for your trouble, you fight like a bulldog standing up for the players 1st, before yourself.....tap, tap, tap

2nd, Eric...I knew your post wasn't a fairytale, and to those who think that Mr. Bobbett could have seen your first post and not understood it's intent, I say NO CHANCE. He might be a slime ball, he might or might not have had good intentions, but he certainly would have understood IMO, your "Show me the $$$"post (I knew SOMEBODY got stiffed when *I* read it, just not who). I applaud your effort to get these guys paid without slammin' him openly, giving him a window of time to do the right thing.

3rd, to Johnny, Archer Mika, Mike Davis, Charile Bryant, John Schmit and all the paid entrants, it's sad this can happen, and *I* for one don't think it's "your fault" you didn't get paid, I don't think John is wrong to go play golf instead of burying his head in his hands, and I think WE all have to do our part to see that Mr. Bobbett pays these guys or pays BIG for not paying.

I gather that in Willie and Irving's day, pool players may have had enough public support to make a good living, but in my time playing (since 1968) it has been sadly rife with stories just like this.....

Lastly, to Mark Griffin of the BCAPL and to anyone else truly trying to make a difference and build the sport, I don't envy your task ahead (although I do support it and bought sky-box seats to the Masters event in Vegas on the 9th thru 11th).

I see a lot of the challenges ahead, and I wish I was smart enough to have solutions but the best I can do is support our sport where I can, remain involved where I can, and support others in their effort to make sure that the Bobbett's of the pool world are held accountable.

So in closing, Eric....if you're the new sheriff, I'm ready to saddle up and join the POSSE'.....

Edit: Did anybody look on the light?????......

Joe

 

[JAM]

...Never saw the $$$, last week I posted a thread that said "Show me the $$$" After 2700 views and 4 pages of guesses, only JAM had it right....

I just knew that is what it was, mainly because I am aware of your strong sponsorship of several pool players who you have taken a liking to in the past year, providing financial support to them and their families and businesses. So, when you posted up your original thread, I knew it was about the money at that Desert tourney.

That said, I am at a loss as to why Frank Alvarez, being the UPA president, did not enforce the so-called rule that the monies for UPA tournaments be protected. He shares some of the blame for this, IMHO. Though he didn't short the players out of his pocket, I think it is his duty to make sure that all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed for each "UPA-sanctioned tournament." What good is the UPA if it does not protect the members of its organization?

Looking at the picture of Chuck Bobbit, he appears to be an older gentleman, and this event may wipe him out of whatever savings he has. To be a supporter of pool for so long and then to have this happen to him, it appears that he bit off more than he can chew. I, for one, feel bad for him, but I also think the players must be paid in full ASAP. This man tried to do a good deed, and he got screwed. He obviously does not have the financial wherewithal of Mark Griffin.

Which brings me to my next point. That sucks that Mark Griffin lost 80 large on the Qlympics. This man has poured more money into pool that anyone I know. If anyone deserves a financial reward in this racket, it is Mark Griffin. He sponsors players, keeps the BCA League going, promotes large pool events. There isn't a stronger supporter that I know of than Mark Griffin. He puts his money up time and time again to make things happen. In case anyone hasn't said it recently, thank you, Mark.

The last pool tournament I went to was the IPT event in Vegas, July 2006. Quite frankly, I couldn't take the tournament trail anymore. Traveling hundreds and hundreds of miles, expending thousands of dollars for week-long events, and winning a peanut in some instances if we're lucky was too much for my pocketbook. I neglected my business for several years, all in the name of pool.

That said, next time I attend a pool tournament, whether it be a regional tour event or the U.S. Open, I will be there only as a pool vacation. The payouts in pool are not worth the effort financially, physically, and emotionally anymore for this reader. In the words of B.B. King, the thrill is gone.

The only way a player can keep following a tourament trail in the year 2008 is to have a stakehorse like Fatboy paying all the bills, a wife/girlfriend like me who is willing to sacrifice to be "on the road again," parents who don't mind if the player has no financial obligations and lives ay home, or an inheritance.

Don't get me wrong, I am a pool enthusiast, but I had more fun with pool when I was a social shooter. Professonal pool will bankrupt your soul, if you let it. It almost got me, but thankfully, I was able to recover from a financial nightmare of attending two, three, and four tournaments every month.

That is my story, and I am sticking with it, sad to say!

JAM

 

[Fast Lenny]

I just knew that is what it was, mainly because I am aware of your strong sponsorship of several pool players who you have taken a liking to in the past year, providing financial support to them and their families and businesses. So, when you posted up your original thread, I knew it was about the money at that Desert tourney.

That said, I am at a loss as to why Frank Alvarez, being the UPA president, did not enforce the so-called rule that the monies for UPA tournaments be protected. He shares some of the blame for this, IMHO. Though he didn't short the players out of his pocket, I think it is his duty to make sure that all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed for each "UPA-sanctioned tournament." What good is the UPA if it does not protect the members of its organization?

Looking at the picture of Chuck Bobbit, he appears to be an older gentleman, and this event may wipe him out of whatever savings he has. To be a supporter of pool for so long and then to have this happen to him, it appears that he bit off more than he can chew. I, for one, feel bad for him, but I also think the players must be paid in full ASAP. This man tried to do a good deed, and he got screwed. He obviously does not have the financial wherewithal of Mark Griffin.

Which brings me to my next point. That sucks that Mark Griffin lots 80 large on the Qlympics. This man has poured more money into pool that anyone I know. If anyone deserves a financial reward in this racket, it is Mark Griffin. He sponsors players, keeps the BCA League going, promotes large pool events. There isn't a stronger supporter that I know of than Mark Griffin. He puts his money up time and time again to make things happen. In case anyone hasn't said it recently, thank you, Mark.

The last pool tournament I went to was the IPT event in Vegas, July 2006. Quite frankly, I couldn't take the tournament trail anymore. Traveling hundreds and hundreds of miles, expending thousands of dollars for week-long events, and winning a peanut in some instances if we're lucky was too much for my pocketbook. I neglected my business for several years, all in the name of pool.

That said, next time I attend a pool tournament, whether it be a regional tour event or the U.S. Open, I will be there only as a pool vacation. The payouts in pool are not worth the effort financially, physically, and emotionally anymore for this reader. In the words of B.B. King, the thrill is gone.

The only way a player can keep following a tourament trail in the year 2008 is to have a stakehorse like Fatboy paying all the bills, a wife/girlfriend like me who is willing to sacrifice to be "on the road again," parents who don't mind if the player has no financial obligations and lives ad home, or have an inheritance.

That is my story, and I am sticking with it, sad to say!

JAM

Hey if you keep posting great post like this everyday then they are going to have to give you your own forum.

 

[Nine Ball]

Bad boys, Bad boys, What cha gonna do?

Mark G. is a stand up guy.

Chuck isnt. However I know the business he is in and since his last event he has lost a ton of $$$ in his "Day job". So he had a decision to make, cancel the event and disappoint everyone or fire an air-barrel tournment. He perhaps had the $$$ when he did the last one, alot has happened in his biz, Fatboy aint as "Fat" either, but rest assured if I made a commitment to support an event I would post up.

Fatboy, Fatboy, What they gonna do? What they gonna do when he come for you.. hehe..

Fatboy, Comin to a town near you..

 

[PETARD]

where's the collection guru when we need him?

post the map to his house... I won't lose any sleep if he gets "paid a visit"... I got my alibi...

Pool players need an anonymous "Judge Dread" to keep everybody in line...


String him up...

guru would have handled this