TVmike has proven untrustworthy

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There is something that TVMike isn't realizing throughout all of this. His reputation and image as a businessman has taken a terrific hit. Perhaps one that isn't repairable...

This forum is a powerful tool. Far reaching. This thread alone has generated over 13,500 views, with just over 250 posts. Granted, a good percentage of the views have likely came from those who have posted, but certainly not all of them. What that means is this.... how many people have read this thread that have not participated in it? How many of those people have something to do with putting on pool events where they live? How many of those people will consider using TVMike for one of their events, after reading how this episode occurred, or even more importantly, how it was handled afterwards?

I'm not gonna pile on here, Mike. I have my opinions, based on what I've read, and what I have to say on the subject won't make a difference either way. What I would like to say to you is this... please consider taking a look at this whole thread, and how you represented yourself and your business in it. Imagine this being the first impression you are making to prospective future clients. Is this how you want your business portrayed?

I sincerely hope this episode gets resolved. If not to the complete satisfaction of both parties, at least to a point where some sort of reasonable compromise is achieved. We need more people doing good things in pool. Jay has a history of that. Hopefully you willl someday, too, Mike.
 
Rocky247 said:
I would suggest that both you gentleman revise the way you do business. It doesn't take much to put down on paper what you agree to verbally. This way nothing is mis-understood no matter how well you know each other and for whatever amount of money(generally over $50-$100). Also receipts for shipping and balances due or product due or sent really helps.
Just my JMO! Business is Business!
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People have been using that "business is business" excuse forever in order to mask their low character dealings. When I was a kid I heard about diamond merchants in NYC doing business on a handshake over hundreds of thousands of dollars and always keeping their honor and I was effected by that and still am. I'm in a business now where people tell each other "I own it" or conversely "you own it" and I always expect that verbal agreement to be honored and it is.

The whole deal is about honor. This is not over $200, its about honor. Anyone want to show one post by Mike that displays a shred of honor?
Please.

Jay offered to do business with Mike in an honorable fashion. Jay was telling Mike by the lack of a contract that he would honor Mike's word and does anybody here doubt that Jay's word is his bond? Mike was given a test to behave in an honorable fashion and he failed. The lesson here is not "change the way you do business", its "don't do business with Mike".

Thanks

Kevin
 
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TATE said:
I am always amazed at the generosity of some members here - there are some decent people.

Whoever this person was should not be ridiculed for this donation - they did something out of personal kindness and generosity well knowing they may not get the money back. Maybe they did it for Dawn Fital.

Despite the cynicism that we all seem to lapse into over time, people like this make the world a better place.

Chris
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I am not a believer that anyone gave him the money. It's too convenient. But what type of thinking makes one iota of difference to Jay about paying,the whole idea is absurd!!

But Mike if you did get paid,,I think they just wanted to pay the controversial bill for Jay,,,,,so you won't hurt yourself and the benefit will be streamed. So you have been paid for DVDs,,that part is over!!! lol
BTW: How much you want for all your streaming equipment?? If you think this thread went well for you,,I got some bad news. No fault of Jays either. If you would have not responded at all,, it would have been way better for you. The more you typed the worse it became.
 
jay helfert said:
Mike, I'm starting to hear from some of your "homies" around Detroit. Seems that your rep in your own hometown is badly tarnished as well. Wonder how that happened. Maybe it's more mis-communication from people who just don't understand you.
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Well,,I'm not from Detroit and I'm not a Homie!!! lol But I am from MI,,,,and I do play in some of the tournaments streamed by Mike. I don't know him,,never really talked to him before either. But when he first started I thought it was a great idea,, streaming tournaments.

From this thread,,and my posts,,you can see how I feel about it now.

Jay ,,you didn't Rat him out either,,he brought this on himself. It was just a matter of time. There were several occasions even after this thread started he could have resolved this and come out with some dignity. FAILED!!

Like a set of drums,,,beat them all day and still get the same result.
 
I think Mike has a little bit of an everyone is out to get him complex. He thinks Jay made a bunch of money on the tournament and is mean for not giving him any to help. I'm sure he doesn't know that Jay puts money in the pot for the one pocket challenge, along with many of the posters here who generously contribute every year to the added money so the event can happen.

I'm curious as to how this deal originated. I doubt that Jay contacted Mike and asked him to come stream it, although I may be wrong. If Mike came to the Derby on his own free will hoping to record and maybe profit, he then expected someone to compensate him while he was there? If you don't have the money to get there, why go? I know when I go it costs me a minimum of $1000 for the week, and I live an hour away. Did he really think he was going to make enough selling $8 DVDs to recoup his loss and make a profit? If he didn't figure the cost vs profit before then he is obviously winging it and is always going to be broke.

I may be wrong, but this is the feeling I get from the conversation.
 
TVmike said:
Yesterday, 10:02 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike -

I will send you money to help you out. It sounds like the amount is $160+$160+$30 =$350.
If you send me your paypal address I will send this amount to you. You can pay me back if and when Jay pays you.
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Can you send me his e-mail? I have bills to pay and need a "loan". :eek:
 
Big Balls

TVmike said:
Now I will tell you just in the past few minutes someone has volunteered to send me the money that you owe me and when you pay me then I will pay him back. That someone who is actually reading and comprehending the details here. Thank you so much. I have not got the money yet in my paypal but I am going to have faith and trust in his word because I believe in the human condition.
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I would like to say that you really have Big Balls to even post something crazy like this. Do you really think we believe you...about anything ? I wish you would take the time to read back this whole thread, and look at your own responses you made and think that you were ever going to make " ANY " money streaming Pool, or have any repeat customers. I am happy that it only cost me $ 25.00 for the Bad Blood event you streamed....never to purchase anything again. I think if you really believe what you typed, you really need to be under the care of a DR. and be treated for Bi-Polar and you need to be medicated for your condition. I'm not here to ruin your career in streaming pool....you have done that yourself. IMO, if you were to have handled this correctly, like the customer is always right, and gets the benefit of the doubt, you might have had a chance to have repeat customers. You created this mess all by yourself from the start of Bad Blood. Read back this thread and learn from it, not to always put the blame on someone else. I have been in Pool business for over 25 years and I always gave my customers the benefit of the doubt, that's the way you get repeat customers. Anyone that has even bought anything from me, can vouch for me. Dukes-Q-Stop
 
jay helfert said:
On the other hand, a handshake is all that's needed between honorable people. Many million dollar deals have been sealed with merely a handshake, that was honored later on by both parties. Elvis Presley shook his hand on a 50-50 deal with Colonel Tom Parker on all his earnings, and he honored it for life. It may have been the worst deal any famous artist ever had.
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Vincent Van Gogh only sold one painting during his lifetime and offed himself because of his destitute circumstances. Others made millions from his paintings, he died broke. What is the meaning of that? I don't know, maybe a bad deal is worse than no deal.
 
No judgements here, just a few reality facts:

1) Contracts, written or verbal, can be amended when both parties agree to amend them. If one party either refuses to or cannot fullfill his obligations under the original agreement then the other party has the option to either amend the contract or consider it a default and excercise his legal remedies. Happens all the time. The damage to the "reputation" of the party defaulting is an entirely different matter, and varies dependent upon whether the default was caused by refusal or inability. If the default is caused by the defaulting party's inability to fullfill his part of the agreement, refusal of the other party to change the terms of the agreement can be looked upon as being unreasonable. Simple refusal to complete the transaction, on the otherhand, is looked upon more severly.

2) Agreements with "impaired" individuals are usually legally unenforceable and should be avoided. Resolution of a contractual disagreement with an "impaired" individual is best handled discreetly and with compassion. IMO

J
 
I don't see the point in continuing this thread. It did what it needed to do--let the billiard community know not to support TVmike's cheap business and stay away from his sketchy business practices :thumbup:

Now that we are aware we should just avoid anything he promotes like the plague. Jay seems like a honest guy and I hate when people with good intentions get screwed over.
 
Itsnotme said:
I don't see the point in continuing this thread.
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Ironic when you were one of the biggest PP supporters.

BTW. The quote isn't "money is the root of all evils", but "the love of money is the root of all evils". This has been misquoted many times and has a totally different meaning.

Money can do a lot of good things like give a child a home, food and medicine. It can also do a lot of bad things like support terrorism and drug cartels.

Money itself is neither good or bad, but the love of money itself will lead to bad things. (i.e. greed, one of the seven deadly sins)
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
I think the guy who advanced this effing loser $350 should have his head examined.

Sorry but that's my take.

You don't reward such bad behavior. Well intentioned or not, this sends the wrong message to a person who is dishonorable and obviously, morally bankrupt.

Anyone who reads this thread should come away with a very good sense of who TVMike is.

Best,
Brian kc
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Mercifully, it looks like this thread may be drawing to a close.

Before it rides off into the sunset, though, I want to address the comment I made this morning (see above).

I will not edit or erase it as it is exactly what I was feeling at the time. After hitting the send button, I went out for the day and I will admit, I was having some thoughts that maybe I was too harsh.

I want to let my fellow az'ers know that my post was pretty much a knee-jerk reaction to how, IMO, Mike was using the Dawn Fital benefit as a tool to try to guilt Jay, or perhaps anyone else, into sending him money.

That sent me straight up over the edge.

If I offended anyone (aside from Mike) with the harsh tone of that post, please accept my apologies.

Best,
Brian kc
 
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Okay TVMike, someone gave you some help. Now its up to you to do some real thinking about this whole affair and show us all the real TVMike. Try rereading all these post again and maybe again. Don't concern yourself with what someone else said or did, but what did you do and say? was that the real you? time will tell. The title says "TVmike has proven untrustworthy" only you TVmike, can prove that statement to be true or not true, its up to you.

To the person that sent Tvmike the money, I sincerly thank you. I believe you did the right thing.
 
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