I don't think you are truly assessing how easy it is to get funny on the 13 playing it like this. Looks good on the chart, but get less than perfect on the 11 and it multiplies the difficulty of getting on the 13 just right. I feel like I've been funny on a ball like that a thousand times. You might be right about the difficulty of rolling the frozen 15 ball in while holding for the 11, if so I'd probably prefer the combo over getting on the 13 like you propose.
What order to shoot the stripes with ball in hand?
- Thread starter elyons
- Start date
I think we're talking in different languages based on our spd.
The whole reason I'm saying the 15 is the first ball and not the 13 is because of the critical nature of the 11. If you cannot play decent shape on the 11 with BIH on the 15, then you're not running this table out and we need go no further. BIH on the 15 removes all the difficulty from the transition to the 11. The 11 to the 13 is about spd and funneling into shape off two rails. You err to over hit and use the opposite side pocket as a secondary option.
The fact that the word "combo" entered this conversation has convinced me that no amount of words that I can type this afternoon will broaden your thinking. That's not meant to be a snide comment. We're just approaching the game with different experience.
I need not convince you of anything. ...and trust me when I say I fully understand the risk/reward of my suggest pattern/method.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Done correctly, a combo on the fifteen will also make the eleven, so that's what I'm going for.
Here, hold my beer while I whack this sumbitch.
Yeah I'm sure it's my "speed" that's clouding my judgement here and not my understanding of the game and how virtually no top player would choose to play position on the ball as you've proposed.
Who said I couldn't do that?
The opposite side pocket is also not an easy shot for ANY player, including professionals. I guess unless you're straight in on it. Give it some angle and now you have to work to get on the 14. The shot becomes an odd stun with maybe some running english. That's not the type of shot you should have to encounter from this position.
It is meant to be a snide comment. Which is fine with me -- just don't run from it.
No you don't. None of us do until we line it up and try it out. We are looking at balls on a screen. The shots all look easy from here. This is meant to be somewhat snide - I think you may be overrating your game and your knowledge here.
Excellent post and fully understood.
Starting out with ball-in-hand to set up a combo on the 10-15 is an acceptable starting choice if it’s a 7’ table. However on a 9’ table, this requires an extreme reach with an extender or use of a bridge stick, which immediately becomes a much more difficult shot I would never choose to start with, considering all the other options.
Also, if it’s a 7’ table, starting with BIH playing the 10 in the far corner is certainly an easy enough shot which becomes a missable shot on a tighter pocket 9’ table.
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DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Starting a ball in hand run with a combo is almost never acceptable. You add too many variables and too much risk.
Yeah, looking again at the layout, especially if the 15 is frozen on the cushion, I don’t like starting with that combo even on a 7’ table. There are just too many other easier options.
I was about to call BS but then I saw you used the word "almost". Can't disagree with that!
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
It's a lot like starting with a bank. If I do it, I'm looking to play a two-way shot.
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
I'm starting with the 13 in the lower side and rolling forward enough to clear the 3 for the 15 next. The 13 is clearly the gotcha ball here so let's get rid of it pronto. In opposition to many posts here I am executing this entire runout without any side english. The spin doctors always seem to get into trouble.
Well I tried this idea and it went exactly as I thought it might, which meant getting out of line going from the 11 to the 14 by overrunning the two-rail position. I pivoted to make the 10 first but then left a long shot on the 14 which I missed. Womp womp.
Should have gone one rail in between the 3 and the 8 to go more down the position line rather than running across it.
Some players are more comfortable using high inside spin to come around 2 cushions. I actually feel like I can control my speed much better using inside as opposed to using any form of outside spin.
VarmintKong
Cannonball comin’!
I hear ya’. A lot of times inside is nice because it’s a more predictable variance from the line; the angle only tightens so much. In this case though that inside is running.
Skip used the example of using outside, with what I assume is a stun-draw, between the 3 and 8 to get on the 14. I think it’s much more natural to shoot that shot to get on the 10. A stop or little pop off the rail and then the 13-14-8 are factory made.
As someone said, analyzing these runout patterns in a diagram is easy, but executing them in real life with pressure on often doesn’t seem to work out the same.
You always have to be ready to alter your order of shots if necessary, unless you play position like a pro. The biggest pitfalls are leaving yourself snookered behind one of your opponent’s balls, too close to one of your planned object balls or leaving too tough of a shot. Falling just a little bit off of your desired angle on any ball could easily make this runout a whole lot trickier.
VarmintKong
Cannonball comin’!
Right on man. I definitely didn’t have any pressure on playing this at the table. I should work on that two rail route off the 11, it still works to get on the 10.
Here’s where I’m at. I hit that two rail shot trying to go towards the diamond to the left of the bottom side. I’m using running English, so a little too much and my angle gets wider and the cue ball rolls more as well. Also, I’m coming more across the line to the 10 than need be.
If I play that 11 with a stun draw and touch of right (playing a line to two diamonds to the left of the bottom side pocket), I have a wider gap between the 3-8 than I do between the 3-13. Also, I’m playing along a longer line of acceptable outcomes.
Like you said though, no pressure in the basement other than what I put on myself. I need to work on my two rail routes.
Me too. My intention is to make every ball without any side - and 13, 15, 11 ..... gives me the best chance to make it. That's the theory anyway - in practice if I over or under run on a shot then I might have to use some side, and this pattern gives me the best chance to play a "recovery shot" while playing it.
Like Efren?
VarmintKong
Cannonball comin’!
What is that mentality? I don’t mean to single you out, it’s just something I hear a lot; you can accomplish any thing you want just using top, bottom, and center ball. Tor Lowry made some real good videos where that was his mantra.
I can dig it, but I’m always looking for the why, what’s the underlying theme. I think those Lowry videos are geared towards the player who diesn’t know where the rolling ball and tangent line is. That is why the emphasis is on center.
He’s saying you have to have a baseline before you can ebb and flow. Side isn’t something to be avoided at all costs; just know the route to the rail where the spin will take, right?