Wow Kind of Suprised to See This !!

[blah blah]

I think the author is trying to be a mix of humble, cute, and coy. Unfortunately it all comes off as both sexist and as very 19th century sensationalist.

I am now half- expecting some bodices to be ripped (amid murmurs of feigned protest) at the tournament.

Yeah, I'm offended, but I can also see that the writer probably just got carried away with themselves, and then no one edited the piece or checked it for tone later.

 

[Island Drive]

Something's fishy about this whole thing. I think the women of the WPBA are entitled to know who is writing crap like that about them. If it's one of their own, they need to give that person a lesson in good public relations, because this definitely isn't. Someone with the WPBA board should be reading this stuff before it goes out. Kind of makes you wonder where it's coming from.

I think John R. is aware or will be shortly, he's on here allot.

 

[allen_jr]

Jude, humble is one thing, but being subservient is another.

Very true. Regardless of what anyone thinks or feels, this was an awfully strange way to word things.

That said, I do have a question if anyone knows... I am definitely not aware of every happening in the billiards world, but as far as I know, this is not the first professional event that men and women have had the opportunity to play together in, is it? The only thing I do know for certain is that our Open Pro Players Championship has been open to men and women for years. We have not had any women sign up to play, at least not that I recall. It is possible that Jeanette or Kelly or Karen played once or twice, I haven't checked the archive and honestly my memory is not perfect.... Also, we have never made a big official press release indicating it as such, so maybe the women were not all aware. But for the record, women are welcome to come play with the men at our event as well, and have been for years...

I thought there were some other events that men and women played in together, or maybe they were 2 simultaneous events with men and women just playing together in same venue, different tournaments.

Just wonderin'

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude, humble is one thing, but being subservient is another.

Well, you first said the writer was condescending which is nearly opposite to subservient. I mean, I agree, I think the writer is overly humble. I also agree that it can be viewed as condescending but I would need to know who the writer is. In my opinion, the writer was merely trying to protect the WPBA's image but tarnished it in doing so. Kind of ironic, really.

 

[DRW]

Wpba

The above is a very condescending press release and I have to wonder who wrote it. I just don't see where making such remarks serves any purpose other than to perpetuate the theory that women can't or shouldn't be playing against the men. If I was one of the top women players, I wouldn't be too happy to read this tripe.

Excellent call there Jay. You can bet they did not bounce it off the ladies. I sure hope this wasn't the new president.:frown:

 

[cardiac kid]

And why exactly does the inclination to gamble make one a better player? Does it make you "aim" better, or "stroke" better? It might ratchet up the pressure you put on yourself, but does it make you a better player?

I thought the idea of a tournament was to see who was the better player, at least on that particular day. I don't see where betting on yourself should affect that.

(I don't have any anti-gambling bias. I'm simply amazed by the fascination of gambling and pool, and how it is constantly linked to ability. And how folks keep wishing for pool to become more mainstream, all the while extoling the virtues of making a "score". A very complex philosphical conflict.)

IMHO, perhaps the lack of inclination to "bet" might just prove that the ladies have a better head on their shoulders. And that they are more interested in playing the game of pool, rather than the game of getting over on someone.

The gambling is not the whole story. Just an important part of it. Next time you think it doesn't matter, take five hundred or a thousand out of YOUR pocket (not a backers) and play against someone much better than yourself. Even, no spot! Feel that lump in your throat yet? Perhaps it is not identical but next time you address a tournament match winning shot, see if you feel the same pressure. Hurts a lot more to lose money out of your pocket than tournament winnings. That's where the emotion part of the equation comes in. If you don't feel the pressure, you'll probably play better against a stronger opponent. Perhaps you won't agree with me. If that is so, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

Hate to sound like a broken record but ........... Mike Zuglan has been inviting the top women professionals since the first Turning Stone event. Jasmin's been there as well as Yu Ram Cha, Julie Kelly, Karen Corr, Jeanette Lee and a host of other great female players. Mike's events are always open to all who wish to enter. It's great Mr Behrman has decided to open the US Open event to women but why does it say open to begin with? Never understood that part. I guess it means open to both professionals and amateurs not men and women.

Lyn

 

[justadub]

The gambling is not the whole story. Just an important part of it. Next time you think it doesn't matter, take five hundred or a thousand out of YOUR pocket (not a backers) and play against someone much better than yourself. Even, no spot! Feel that lump in your throat yet? Perhaps it is not identical but next time you address a tournament match winning shot, see if you feel the same pressure. Hurts a lot more to lose money out of your pocket than tournament winnings. That's where the emotion part of the equation comes in. If you don't feel the pressure, you'll probably play better against a stronger opponent. Perhaps you won't agree with me. If that is so, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Lyn

Yup, agree to disagree.

Mostly about the part about betting $1k out of my pocket on anything. Lump in my throat, you betcha. If gambling is necessary to measure success, I'll never be a success. Because I don't think you have to bet on something to be good at it. Do you suppose that Derek Jeter bets that he can hit? Or that Kobe Bryant bets that he can score? (Yes, I'm sure Tiger Woods has bet on himself in the past, but he isn't considered one of the most successful golfers of our generation because he's willing to bet.) Does that diminish their ability because they don't bet on themselves?

It further perpetuates the stereotype about pool and gambling. Especially if it's "necessary" to be considered good or successful. Not a club I'd want to join, coming from the outside...

 

[Celtic]

Yea but even then Chris is not in the top men category (no offence but true), whereas Jasmin may be the top woman player or close to it.

That was actually Chris's point in that thread. He stated that there are many male players who are alot better then he is and he needs a fair bit of weight to play them. He then said there is no female on the planet he would not play even. Going by this the top women are at best perhaps at Chris Bartram's level, a strong player but Chris himself admits he is not at the level of the top men players nor are any of the women who he is willing to play even.

 

[jay helfert]

That was actually Chris's point in that thread. He stated that there are many male players who are alot better then he is and he needs a fair bit of weight to play them. He then said there is no female on the planet he would not play even. Going by this the top women are at best perhaps at Chris Bartram's level, a strong player but Chris himself admits he is not at the level of the top men players nor are any of the women who he is willing to play even.

But he did finish tied for 9-12th at last years Open.

 

[oldzilla]

Reads like somebody spreading "it" with a trowel. For whatever reason the women are a tiny step down from the men at the most elite level. They aren't as far down as some folks imagine and some of the women don't hesitate to mix it up in some pretty tough play. As far as I know she doesn't gamble but I'd like to see Jasmin mix it up with a man that isn't in the top dozen or so in a long grind. I don't know how it would come out but it would be fun to see.

Hu

Somewhere in a thread somebody suggested Chris Bartram play a challenge match against Jasmin !!! It could be very good i think.

That was actually Chris's point in that thread. He stated that there are many male players who are alot better then he is and he needs a fair bit of weight to play them. He then said there is no female on the planet he would not play even. Going by this the top women are at best perhaps at Chris Bartram's level, a strong player but Chris himself admits he is not at the level of the top men players nor are any of the women who he is willing to play even.

But he did finish tied for 9-12th at last years Open.

So now all we need is Roy S. to post the poll thread and get this match goin !

 

[Beer:30]

The gap in skill is artificial imposed by lack of ..... ummm ..... intersex play. The more sex mixing you see the more the skill gap is going to close up. This is actually a sport I would expect women to be a bit better at. Short of an upper body strength difference that might make a bit of a difference on the break there isn't a reason men and women shouldn't compete in any event.

 

[oldzilla]

So now all we need is Roy S. to post the poll thread and get this match goin !

Oh wait i think we need an in between thread first where things ferment and the players post stuff and finally except the challenge ! Then comes the Roy S. poll thread.

Chris should do the honors. Ummm i think he is going to be busy though. Maybe after May is over. Bookmark this !:thumbup:

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Definitely not the first time.

Women can play the eurotours, DCC etc.

Jasmin finished 3rd in the World 14-1 Championship, for MEN. (for the others in this thread, that is, btw, something that Chris Bartram will NEVER do) :thumbup:

Jasmin also played the World Ten Ball Championship, and she and others played on the IPT.

Very true. Regardless of what anyone thinks or feels, this was an awfully strange way to word things.

That said, I do have a question if anyone knows... I am definitely not aware of every happening in the billiards world, but as far as I know, this is not the first professional event that men and women have had the opportunity to play together in, is it? The only thing I do know for certain is that our Open Pro Players Championship has been open to men and women for years. We have not had any women sign up to play, at least not that I recall. It is possible that Jeanette or Kelly or Karen played once or twice, I haven't checked the archive and honestly my memory is not perfect.... Also, we have never made a big official press release indicating it as such, so maybe the women were not all aware. But for the record, women are welcome to come play with the men at our event as well, and have been for years...

I thought there were some other events that men and women played in together, or maybe they were 2 simultaneous events with men and women just playing together in same venue, different tournaments.

Just wonderin'

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Oh wait i think we need an in between thread first where things ferment and the players post stuff and finally except the challenge ! Then comes the Roy S. poll thread.

Chris should do the honors. Ummm i think he is going to be though. Maybe after May is over. Bookmark this !:thumbup:

I wish Jasmin gambled...

You know what I will do. I will tell Chris that he got $ 500 action the first time he will ever play Jasmin in a 8-ball, 9-ball, 10-ball or 14-1 tournament match.

Chris, where are you, you nit???

 

[oneballeddie]

It May Be a Proven Fact Since 1995

"Women are handicapped by having boobs. It's not easy for them to keep their left arm straight, and that's one of the tenets of the game. Their boobs get in the way."

Ben Wright, May 12, 1995

 

[poolcuemaster]

You haven't seen the Allison Fisher that I have

Yea but even then Chris is not in the top men category (no offence but true), whereas Jasmin may be the top woman player or close to it. I have never ever seen the women string multiple racks (3-4-5) or play good lock-up safeties in a match. In fact, ESPN had some women's matches on last couple of weeks and they had issues running out one rack, and almost every single safety left a full ball open to hit.

This is a very odd press release, does not sound like something from official channels. I mean can you imagine Microsoft saying something like "As you all know, Apple has a better operating system, but we hope you try Windows anyway".

I watched Allison destroy a very strong field of men players in Mint Hill NC a few years ago, some of the top players in the Tommy Kennedy run tourney were Stevie, Tony Watson, Putnam, Jaybird, Parks and several road agents. Anyway Allison wound up having to beat TK twice in the finals and she ran out from everywhere, and I mean stringing racks together. It looked like she had the cueball on a string her position play was so perfect and she beat US Open champion Tommy Kennedy 9-3 and then 9-2 if I remember the score right. I became a believer the set before the finals when she destroyed a red hot roadie named Denny who had spanked his side of the bracket and Allison has gambled with Watson here in Charlotte and it was a real quick head set on a tight pocket Diamond which she won easily. Don't think if she is in the ZONE that she has no chance against anyone.--Leonard

 

[Johnnyt]

"Women are handicapped by having boobs. It's not easy for them to keep their left arm straight, and that's one of the tenets of the game. Their boobs get in the way."

Ben Wright, May 12, 1995

Sports bras. Johnnyt

 

[JB Cases]

This is actually a pretty bold statement. Some people, I for one, would argue that women don't have a lower average skill level but that their player pool is much smaller and therefore it is more unlikely that one of them would rise to the absolute top (among men and women, that is). Can't think of any particular difference between sexes that would make a huge difference in the game as it is played today. (With soft breaks and all.)

And most inherent differences between sexes are statistical in nature. That is, men are more likely to have good spatial understanding, but not all men are better than women in this respect. Sure, there might be some inherent difference that makes it more likely for men to become the absolute best, but I'm not aware of such.

If the player pool (of serious, competitive players) were the same, maybe we could draw some conclusions.

This is what they mean and what I mean as well. They weren't saying in their statement that women are inherently and genetically weaker than men. They are saying that at present the average skill level of women players is lower than the average skill level of men players as a group.

When you are speaking of becoming the "absolute best" the chances of doing such are statistically low no matter who you are as an individual. historically there are thousands of great players around the world but only a handful of consistent winners.

A woman however in today's game has ZERO CHANCE of becoming the absolute best because she is excluded from competing against the absolute best.

At least in the US OPEN now there is a chance, however slim, that a woman can become a US Open Champion against the best.

 

[jay helfert]

"Women are handicapped by having boobs. It's not easy for them to keep their left arm straight, and that's one of the tenets of the game. Their boobs get in the way."

Ben Wright, May 12, 1995

This is more pseudo nonsense as well. Sorry Ben, you don't have a clue.