Amen brother.
Wow Kind of Suprised to See This !!
- Thread starter ForumGhost516
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Amen brother.
WOW. Thank you Bob. That's a keeper. Johnnyt
bad press release
As for that press release - thats reeeeaaaally bad piece of promotion, so amateurish that it almost looks like a sabotage...
If you ask me about the quality of woman play there is not a simple answer. Average field of women tournament is considerably weaker compared to average filed of men tournament. BUT top women have the game perfectly comparable to the game of top men. Except for one thing: the break shot. If you take the break shot out of equation top women can go deep into every field againts top men, thats why Jasmin succeeded in Worlds 14-1. There is abolutelly no reason why top women couldnt do that in 14-1. But US 9ball Open is different story, the break shot is sooo important in 9ball...women doesnt have the explosive power needed for power break that men have. If the tables are tapped and soft break is allowed then I say top women do have a realistic chance to go really deep against top men pros but if power break is needed then I cant see any way how top woman player could beat 4-5 top pros in a row to get really high in the rankings.
As for that press release - thats reeeeaaaally bad piece of promotion, so amateurish that it almost looks like a sabotage...
If you ask me about the quality of woman play there is not a simple answer. Average field of women tournament is considerably weaker compared to average filed of men tournament. BUT top women have the game perfectly comparable to the game of top men. Except for one thing: the break shot. If you take the break shot out of equation top women can go deep into every field againts top men, thats why Jasmin succeeded in Worlds 14-1. There is abolutelly no reason why top women couldnt do that in 14-1. But US 9ball Open is different story, the break shot is sooo important in 9ball...women doesnt have the explosive power needed for power break that men have. If the tables are tapped and soft break is allowed then I say top women do have a realistic chance to go really deep against top men pros but if power break is needed then I cant see any way how top woman player could beat 4-5 top pros in a row to get really high in the rankings.
searcyD
Banned
I don't think we should view this as a lay down. I would like to read the entire statement to make a better read. It has been such a highly debatable subject because a lot of people don't know the exact reason that makes men better players....fact of the matter is, men are in a better position to claim that they do play better from the results. Conversely, the women don't have enough decent players, compared to the men's field.
If the statement is a plan for women compete on a different platform and promote their tour, I like the idea in its entirety. And I hope they get there because more women players in the poolroom makes for good atmosphere.
There is nothing about the statement I disagree with.
Most women that can really play this game knows this statement is true or at least partly true...and they keep coming with it. That's a lot of heart. Although, they may not win a major anytime soon, advancing deeper is victorious for them. We should honor the opportunity, cause we're men and we can handle it.
They are not disguising their plan to win a major and claim victory over us. Even if it is, let them. Their efforts should be welcomed.
If the statement is a plan for women compete on a different platform and promote their tour, I like the idea in its entirety. And I hope they get there because more women players in the poolroom makes for good atmosphere.
There is nothing about the statement I disagree with.
Most women that can really play this game knows this statement is true or at least partly true...and they keep coming with it. That's a lot of heart. Although, they may not win a major anytime soon, advancing deeper is victorious for them. We should honor the opportunity, cause we're men and we can handle it.
They are not disguising their plan to win a major and claim victory over us. Even if it is, let them. Their efforts should be welcomed.
Who wrote it? Probably the same people who told Mark Griffin that women cannot compete with men...
Something like that came out of WPBA Board/ Pros couple years ago when Mark Griffin wanted to form an Open Pro Tour for men and women combined.
I specifically heard one of them who is ranked very high say it was crazy for WPBA pros to match up with men because it will show that only handful of WPBA players can compete with men. Although, individually there was interest for the 'possible tour' the Board decided they will not sanction this new tour, which would forbid any WPBA member to play.
The decision was later explained by a touring pro that if WPBA pros competed with men that they will loose their "Star Power"...
This new tour would had included US Open 9 Ball, (which at the time Barry B. had verbally agree that he would let women play if it was to become one of stop for Mark's Pro Tour) US Open 10 Ball and few other.
S.
To solve some of the mystery, that was a press release sent to us (and IP I assume) by the WPBA. I received it from a WPBA board member via email.
Mike
Mike
Ok, here is the deal. For the most part, most women are prodominantly weaker than most men. Therefore cant produce the powerful breaks that men can. Hit stronger shots like men can. There are alot of shots that a woman just cant hit. Not knocking them as players cause there are a lot of women out there that could kick my arse. There are only 2 games a woman has a chance at being the best in the world at in pool. Straight pool and one pocket. That is because for the most part, power isnt what wins those games. It is intelligence and pocketing balls. I mean, you have the top woman player in the world play the top male in lets say 10 ball race to hundred. A woman will never win that race. Sure a shorter race they have a chance. I wish pool would go to a tennis like system. Do a best of 5 sets. But it is this way in almost any sport. Can you imagine a woman being a quarterback in the NFL? Or tennis? Golf? Baseball? They are just the physically weaker sex. Its genetics. So, ladies when you read this, dont get mad at me but thank me for there is not a more beautiful creature than a woman. But that is a whole different conversation.
searcyD
Banned
Takes a lot of power to play one pocket. A different kinda power than rotation pool, and also harder to acquire.
I don't know tha t i will leveto see it, but someday, someday a woman might win a major and I thnk it wil be a Mafor upset. ibelive that Johnny Archer could give Allison, Karen, or Jasmin the 7 today and not feel themost pressure had has felt!
i furtherly believe that the bar has risn, but i would take a ticket on Jean now against any of todays women! JMO!
Are you out of your mind? I mean really are you out of your mind?
Here is a video where Jasmin Ouschan breaks and makes five balls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmqWPXg1dcc
This PLAYER has a player's stroke. She plays world class.
Everyone always says that the women can win in short sets, it used be a race to five then they started winning races to nine, now it's well they can't win a race to 100 or best of five sets, or whatever.
Pool is a completely NON-PHYSICAL sport in the sense that the relative physique of the opponents doesn't matter one bit whatsoever. I don't know about you but I know plenty of fat, chain smoking fried chicken eating guys who can stay up and alert without drugs for days if they are gambling.
I just watched a video about a woman who has rowed across the Atlantic Ocean by herself. She is two thirds of the way across the Pacific Ocean. If a "woman" can do that then a "woman" can certainly hang with a man playing pool.
Just because TODAY is not the day that there is a woman who has the firepower to hang with the very best male players ball for ball, shot for shot and set for set does not mean that this day will not ever come.
Until Women are ALLOWED to compete with men on equal terms they will never even have the chance to be able to rise to the status of best player on Earth.
This has to be one of the most sexist and offensive posts I have ever read on this forum. Unreal. Really unreal.
Someday women will be winning majors. Someday there will be women in the top ten and someday a woman will be the number one player in the world. Those women who are taking the step to play against the men in all the tournaments they can are paving the way for that happen.
Right now it's a long shot that any of these things will come to pass for the women who are currently among the best simply because they are all adults who grew up under the sexist and discriminatory system that segregated them from being able to compete with the best players.
However for players like 16 year old Sha Sha Liu of China who put a 7 pack down against Karen Corr when she was DOWN 5:1 having the opportunity to mix it up with the guys and learn what they know in the heat of battle can only help to take her game to even greater levels.
And who's really to say that Kelly Fisher and Allison won't get stronger? Karen Corr has taken plenty of scalps on the Joss Tour, WINNING two of them, one against Rempe and one against Mika.
Allison double dipped Tommy Kennedy in one of his stops. That's TWO sets to 9.
Jasmin has beaten top pros in long races.
Kelly Fisher has beaten top pros in longer races.
So who can really say that these women won't get even stronger when they are ALLOWED to play against the men regularly?
No one can. But there is no reason genetic or otherwise to believe that they don't belong there.
The 9-ball break is not a problem for most good women players. If they can't power break like Jasmin and about a dozen or so more on the tour they can learn haw to make a ball on the break and get a good spread with a softer break. I's not that hard to learn...even a caveman can do it. Now 10-ball is a different story. Johnnyt
searcyD
Banned
????
I read the PR. After reading up to the third page of this thread I came to the conclusion that most people don't really see the big picture. The US open is a very prestigious event. There will be past champions and players from all over the world competing. There are 16 spots for women.
"Seeding will also be afforded to both male and female BCA Hall of Famers. No tournament in America is more renowned than the US Open for giving those who dare to dream a shot at the world’s most elite pool players, and here at the WPBA, we feel strongly that the inclusion of women in the US Open field brings this legacy to a higher dimension"----this, I didn't get.
Stating the obvious is not in anyway condescending. If anything, who ever wrote this is just trying to honor the men, in hoping that they don't complain about the opportunity given to them by Berry B. In addition, Accomplishments of women players vs men were fairly mentioned.
The women are under a lot of pressure here. There will be mouthy losers in this situation. If someone wins and had to go through a wpba player, others will say something about the win. Put all this and many other factors together, and I'm sure that people would change their view...well I hope.
Peace.
I read the PR. After reading up to the third page of this thread I came to the conclusion that most people don't really see the big picture. The US open is a very prestigious event. There will be past champions and players from all over the world competing. There are 16 spots for women.
"Seeding will also be afforded to both male and female BCA Hall of Famers. No tournament in America is more renowned than the US Open for giving those who dare to dream a shot at the world’s most elite pool players, and here at the WPBA, we feel strongly that the inclusion of women in the US Open field brings this legacy to a higher dimension"----this, I didn't get.
Stating the obvious is not in anyway condescending. If anything, who ever wrote this is just trying to honor the men, in hoping that they don't complain about the opportunity given to them by Berry B. In addition, Accomplishments of women players vs men were fairly mentioned.
The women are under a lot of pressure here. There will be mouthy losers in this situation. If someone wins and had to go through a wpba player, others will say something about the win. Put all this and many other factors together, and I'm sure that people would change their view...well I hope.
Peace.
They need to hire a new PR Man. Their current one sucks!
It's a little hard to do PR when you have an inferiority complex. That press release was demeaning to the women players who will be playing in the U.S. Open. I'm beginning to see why their tour is falling apart. Something is lacking in the leadership area, that would allow such a statement about their players to go out to the media.
One of the biggest advances in professional pool the last 10-15 years has been the level of play of the women competitors. They have risen to the point where it is feasible for them to compete on the same playing field with the men. To deny that fact now, is not fair to the players who have worked so hard to get where they are.
There exists an opportunity for pool to become a major sport internationally. Hopefully someone will have the far sight and expertise to put it together. A professional tour where there is gender equality and total non discrimination by sex is the best possible future for the sport of pool. I hope I live to see that day.
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I think there is actually less pressure for the ladies. After all, there seem to be a lot of people who think they are "supposed to lose".
Steve
I find it kind of odd that this press release is on AZBilliards and Inside Pool but not on their own WPBA web site. I think it's time a wpba player or two with money to step up and start a pro womens tour and run it for the 2000's not the 1970's. Feel like giving something back to womens pool JL? Johnnyt
They need to hire a new PR Man. Their current one sucks!
It's a little hard to do PR when you have an inferiority complex. That press release was demeaning to the women players who will be playing in the U.S. Open. I'm beginning to see why their tour is falling apart. Something is lacking in the leadership area, that they would allow such a statement about their players to go out to the media.
One of the biggest advances in professional pool the last 10-15 years has been the level of play of the women competitors. They have risen to the point where it is feasible for them to compete on the same playing field with the men. To deny that fact now, is not fair to the players who have worked so hard to get where they are.
There exists an opportunity for pool to become a major sport internationally. Hopefully someone will have the far sight and expertise to put it together. A professional tour where there is gender equality and total non discrimination by sex is the best possible future for the sport of pool. I hope I live to see that day.
Sounds to me like they're just trying to lower expectations ahead of the event. It's a classic ploy, employed expertly by the Bush team before the 2000 debates with Gore. In the weeks leading up to them, his PR team kept saying publicly how they knew he couldn't really compete with Gore's debating skills, so a win for them would be defined as Bush just not making any major errors. (Turns out, of course, that Gore performed pathetically in the debates anyway lol.)
Anyway, I agree that the wording in the WPBA release is a bit odd, but it seems obvious what they are trying to do. Once you've effectively lowered the bar of success, anything is a win.
The only problem is that it seems they probably didn't have permission from their players to use this tactic. And therefore their players have a right to be mad.
- Steve
We've covered this before....
That idea is ridiculous. I've played with people like Santos Sambajon, who weighs 90 pounds soaking wet and is smaller than like 90% of the female pros and he breaks a ton and can stroke almost any shot. This argument just doesn't hold up.
Jaden
That idea is ridiculous. I've played with people like Santos Sambajon, who weighs 90 pounds soaking wet and is smaller than like 90% of the female pros and he breaks a ton and can stroke almost any shot. This argument just doesn't hold up.
Jaden
That should have shown everybody who the best lier was. Johnnyt
Why should it be up to one or two players to salvage the tour? As far as JL, show me one player on the tour who has done more for the sport than she has done. I'm not saying she should or shouldn't do it, but she has no obligation to do anything. And I don't know her personal financial situation, but I would be surprised it there is any professional pool player with the kind of resources to start up and run a successful tour.
Steve