Ultimately, if you don't shoot straight reliably and consistently (which I don't), all the aiming systems in the world will be of little help. They may teach you where to aim, but you won't be able to keep making the required shot!
You either shoot straight or you don't...
- Thread starter 1on1pooltournys
- Start date
Exactly right. Often, using the spin you need and the speed you need to get the shape you want is what makes the shot difficult. The aim point changes anyway - so how can there be a visual system?
Chris
Very well stated. I agree with almost everything you said. I do disagree slightly with the part that I quoted.
I think the ghost ball visualization is the simplest way to get the correct contact point, and it's accurate. Lining up the cue on the object ball is an approximation which assumes the cue ball has zero diameter. It does work pretty well for a lot of shots, but it breaks down badly for very close shots as we all know.
Ghost ball is simple, and after a short interval of intense practice, it goes away as aim become natural. It's also key to determining the tangent line.
I'm an engineer, and many of my colleagues overcomplicate things. A good engineer finds the simplest solution that gets the job done. Ghost ball is pretty close to that, IMHO.
Tom
I shoot straight 100% of the time.
Quite frequently, the pockets just don't happen to be in line with my shot.
Quite frequently, the pockets just don't happen to be in line with my shot.
I kinda use an aiming system when I train (practice)
I practice fractional ball for cut shots I shoot 10 shots each at 3/4 1/2 1/4 ball..for each cut angle I shoot with
stun, roll, follow, draw, top right, center right, low right, top left, center left, and low left and repeat each shot cutting in the other direction
I also hit a stop shot line 5 each at 1-5 diamonds away
then I hit that same line using a chalk to mark the last diamond, 5 shots one at each distance with the CB ending at the marked spot then move the chalk one diamond closer and shoot 5 more ect.. until the chalk is at my CB starting point .
and finish by shooting that straight line again.. 6 shots at each position,
top right, center right, low right, top left, center left, and low left..
I do that at least 4 times a week..
but when I play.. I just play.. there is to much to worry about during a match.
In a match you worry about why
Practice is for worrying about how..
and I am progressing faster than I ever thought possible
but hey that's just me:thumbup:
I practice fractional ball for cut shots I shoot 10 shots each at 3/4 1/2 1/4 ball..for each cut angle I shoot with
stun, roll, follow, draw, top right, center right, low right, top left, center left, and low left and repeat each shot cutting in the other direction
I also hit a stop shot line 5 each at 1-5 diamonds away
then I hit that same line using a chalk to mark the last diamond, 5 shots one at each distance with the CB ending at the marked spot then move the chalk one diamond closer and shoot 5 more ect.. until the chalk is at my CB starting point .
and finish by shooting that straight line again.. 6 shots at each position,
top right, center right, low right, top left, center left, and low left..
I do that at least 4 times a week..
but when I play.. I just play.. there is to much to worry about during a match.
In a match you worry about why
Practice is for worrying about how..
and I am progressing faster than I ever thought possible
but hey that's just me:thumbup:
Errm, so once it goes away and aim becomes natural then you are to the point I mentioned. Never did I say ghost ball is not a good way to show a person how to initially aim when they truly have no clue and are just starting. But aiming threads on this forum have people who have been playing for years at a c level and they cannot figure out why they don't play better at this point and are looking for new aiming methods. If you are at that point you are pretty much a lost cause, you are stuck playing pool about as well as I will ever manage to play golf, happy to just get into the 90's.
Everyone has to start somewhere, you don't just start firing balls in instantly knowing all the angles. But the pro's quickly get to the point you mention, where aim becomes natural, systems fade and give way to subconcious knowledge and recognition.
My point stands, if you can never have what you mention take place, the ghost ball going away in time and the aim becomming natural, then you are at a serious disadvantage because the best players in the world are focused on where the cueball is going, the aim and potting the ball is a given and little concious thought goes into it.
C-man,
Perhaps you are not familiar enough with the culture of AZB. If you stick to your position of "naming names" you will miss out on a lot of valuable info on the forum.
Many that "name names" are just making it up, or are only casual acquaintances of "the name" and wish to appear important through their contact with the famous player.
Their are MANY people posting on the forum who are good friends with famous players (like 1on1pooltournys) and do NOT wish to appear egotistical and self-important; sticking to discussing the principle involved rather than the players.
Anyone on this forum who DOES mention the specific name of a pro in regard to a controversial subject will only bring harsh and strident criticism to that pro (it is the way of the forum that all pro's will be soundly criticized for any statement they make...it is the way many trolls make themselves feel good about themselves). I think using restraint is quite admirable - my compliments to 1on1pooltournys.
As I've posted in a recent thread; the pro's I know (who also shall remain nameless) have no interest in aiming systems, and feel that aiming is the easiest part of the game. Delivering the cue in a straight line is FREAKING DIFFICULT if you want to do it with extreme precision and repeatability. Even if an aiming system works to improve pocketing for a beginning or intermediate player - they will not be able to advance to a professional level until they can pocket the ball in the specific portion of the pocket they choose; so that their positional options for whitey will be much greater than the amateur who just pockets the ball with their magic aiming system. JMO.
P.S. - any who are interested will find the most detailed analysis of the subject ever written in Mark Wilson's instructional book (not yet published...I guess we'll have to wait). Very thought provoking for those that are seeking shortcuts to proficiency.
Finally....you get a gold star
i always figured that most of the people that start those threads just try real hard but don't really play well. i figure they're guys with 2k worth of cues but won't bet 5 dollars.
Funny....sounds like something I would say...
or in the words of my friend Korn....
"You're a nit, I didn't say you're a bad guy, just a nit"....or something like that...believe it is a TAR shirt...
100% agreement here! Great post Don! :thumbup: I, for one, look forward to reading Mark's book. He's made great contributions to the sport!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I didn't always shoot straight. I had many bad habits and many misconceptions as well as a not too straight of a stroke.
Shooting straight doesn't come overnight except for a chosen few and then it is more like a thousand nights and not just overnight.
I don't discount aiming systems, perspectives, academics, poolplayers that have trouble communicating what they do or anything else.
Maybe my perspectives comes from a lifetime of tribulation, learning, un-learning, re-learning and a quest to improve my game.
No, I didn't always shoot straight. It never came easy for me. I'm still struggling with shooting straight. Hell, I see the champions struggling at virtually EVERY tournament I go to.
Shooting straight is RELATIVE. For some it might mean being able to run a rack of nine ball or to run a century in straight pool or even less.
Like most have said, straight shooting comes with lots of diligent practice but in my opinion, aiming systems no matter what kind, have their place and it doesn't hurt to try and learn something new to see if it will help your game. If it doesn't help your game, put it on the side and appreciate the fact that you had enough intellectual curiosity to check it out in the first place.
I'm not knocking the aiming system haters, the naturals, the grinders, the bangers, the pounders or anyone else. This is a journey and each of us chooses the path we want to follow.
It is up to each person to work out their own salvation. Some might feel the need of the revival tent, some might feel the need of the clan, some might feel the need to rub elbows with the high and mighty and others might choose to do it solitary like Thoreau.
Right now I have to stop posting to turn on the Hypnosis CD for a little quiet time and relaxation and that's no joke. Tomorrow is a big tournament day.
JoeyA
Shooting straight doesn't come overnight except for a chosen few and then it is more like a thousand nights and not just overnight.
I don't discount aiming systems, perspectives, academics, poolplayers that have trouble communicating what they do or anything else.
Maybe my perspectives comes from a lifetime of tribulation, learning, un-learning, re-learning and a quest to improve my game.
No, I didn't always shoot straight. It never came easy for me. I'm still struggling with shooting straight. Hell, I see the champions struggling at virtually EVERY tournament I go to.
Shooting straight is RELATIVE. For some it might mean being able to run a rack of nine ball or to run a century in straight pool or even less.
Like most have said, straight shooting comes with lots of diligent practice but in my opinion, aiming systems no matter what kind, have their place and it doesn't hurt to try and learn something new to see if it will help your game. If it doesn't help your game, put it on the side and appreciate the fact that you had enough intellectual curiosity to check it out in the first place.
I'm not knocking the aiming system haters, the naturals, the grinders, the bangers, the pounders or anyone else. This is a journey and each of us chooses the path we want to follow.
It is up to each person to work out their own salvation. Some might feel the need of the revival tent, some might feel the need of the clan, some might feel the need to rub elbows with the high and mighty and others might choose to do it solitary like Thoreau.
Right now I have to stop posting to turn on the Hypnosis CD for a little quiet time and relaxation and that's no joke. Tomorrow is a big tournament day.
JoeyA
Dang Bobby. Simmer. Hope all is well with you.
JA,
Well said. My personal view is that most players are reluctant to admit that their lack of proficiency (or relative lack, when comparing themselves to the top pro's) is from lack of adequate dedication (and the amount of dedication required to master this game is HUGE). It is much easier on the ego to just assume the other guy is naturally better - but if you really check out the "other guy" who got really good, he's the one spending time diligently learning the game.
One might be a US Open champion from the late 80's and or early 90's, not sure.
W.B. More,
You are right on here my friend. People don't want to make the sacrifices that it takes to become a great player, and in turn they ultimately sacrifice their skills. I caught on quick...at a young age I was asking a really good pro player about a particular shot and the guy says to me... "You want me to show you how to make that ball the right way?" Naturally, my reply was " Yes, Of course"...and I can still hear his words.... GO HIT A MILLION MORE BALLS FIRST!"
Of course...if I don't say who told me that it probably didn't happen...
I agree that hitting LOTS of balls is the key to aiming. It will just come to you eventually, like a light bulb came on in your head.
FWIW, I did a two-day intermediate instructional class a couple of years ago. I learned so much the first day (mostly about my stroke). The second day was spent almost entirely on an aiming system which I could never get a grasp of. I felt it set me back from everything I had learned the previous day. I scrapped it very soon afterwards. Wasted a whole day on something I (personally) thought was crap. At $600 for two days of instruction, I felt like $300 was totally wasted. Just my opinion.
Maniac
FWIW, I did a two-day intermediate instructional class a couple of years ago. I learned so much the first day (mostly about my stroke). The second day was spent almost entirely on an aiming system which I could never get a grasp of. I felt it set me back from everything I had learned the previous day. I scrapped it very soon afterwards. Wasted a whole day on something I (personally) thought was crap. At $600 for two days of instruction, I felt like $300 was totally wasted. Just my opinion.
Maniac
I get your point, but this is the acepted way to shoot, not controversial, so whats the problem?
I guess I can see where willie's coming from in his theory about naming names. I would like to think the pros have thicker skin than that though. Whatever criticism they draw won't carry nearly as much weight as their own opinion, since they're the pro. And I think in this case the "aiming systems are bunk" opinion isn't all that controversial... I think it's what the majority on this forum believe.
Still, I have seen and heard of pros getting fed up with these forums. Wish they could all be like JS, who seems to fade the typical forum nonsense with good humor.
I guess if 1on1 doesn't want to name them, that's fine, but as willie pointed out... there are a lot of BSers out there. So I have no possible way of knowing if a pro really said that or not. I just have to go by whether the poster seems like an honest guy I guess.
Still, I have seen and heard of pros getting fed up with these forums. Wish they could all be like JS, who seems to fade the typical forum nonsense with good humor.
I guess if 1on1 doesn't want to name them, that's fine, but as willie pointed out... there are a lot of BSers out there. So I have no possible way of knowing if a pro really said that or not. I just have to go by whether the poster seems like an honest guy I guess.
Diagram a complete aiming system or its not happening either! Really doesn't matter who does or says anything. The bottom line remains, if you can't deliver the cue to a precise aim point its a wasted effort.
Rod