Not A World Straight Pool Championship

This has been hashed out before. There are various groups who want to "own" the tournament scene and have the names to promote their events.

Some of the best straight pool players show up to CW's event and it's really the only event of it's type. People wanna hate, jack up the added amount required for "sanctioning".

Politics and business plans probably have a role.

Personally I feel it's a great tournament, it promotes 14.1 and it isn't in my opinion all that bad. I'm surprised people care so much either way about the name.

The pool world is lucky to have a 14.1 tourney that draws the players this one in question does.

IF the industry worked together they could raise the additional monies required to sanction it with the WPA but Hades will probably freeze over before that happens.

That's just how I see it. No one has to agree with me.
 
Do a little fact finding. There was a World Straight Pool Championship LONG before
the WPA decided to invent itself. Untill relatively, quite recently, only American players
competed. No one is exactly breaking the door down to have 14.1 tournaments.
So, it is as much a world championship as it ever was, more, actually.

Would you enjoin baseball from using the term 'World Series'?

Dale
 
itsfroze said:
I think we both agree, for we both said it's a great tournament.
All I'm saying is call it what it is, no more no less.
As far as your "people wanna hate" garbage, are you trying to say that the WPA are also "haters" because they also spoke the truth when they said the tournament doesn't meet the sanctioning requirements to
qualify as a "World Championship".

As for your "this has been hashed out before remark" well I guess I do know that for that was part of the basis for my post, the question being why does it continue to happen.

I guess the WPA saw a problem with this also, apparently you don't.
Nobody said this isn't a great tournament or that the pool world isn't lucky to have it.

What I called into question last year, again this year, and maybe will choose to call into question next year if they CW and Dragon try to misrepresent their tournament again as a "World Championship" or the longest running tournament in the world again.

Call it what it is a great Straight Pool tournament, not a "World Championship" and I wouldn't have a problem with it, and I doubt the WPA would feel compelled to issue any more press releases either.

PS, Not really to do with this topic but I really hope we get a new captain
for Team USA in the Mosconi Cup this year!!!
Click to expand...

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. If there was actually another alternative for a World 14.1 Championship Then I could see your point in a better light. (I believe CW's 14.1 has been sanctioned in the past by the WPA before they raised the amount needed, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I have misspoken). There are many things we could complain about regarding the sad state of professional pool at the end of the day, free speech still exists and they can call it whatever they please and players and fans will support it or not.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on some of the details this time.
 
Because the WPA does such a good job with 14.1 and its promotion, amirite?

It's a serious, quality 14.1 tournament. Couldn't give half a rats ass if the WPA objects to any of it.

Re: the magician -- what point are you stumbling to make? Everyone wants to see Efren play 14.1, and damn them for promoting it! He played in a tourney in 1995, damn them!

Good grief.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
 
pdcue said:
Do a little fact finding. There was a World Straight Pool Championship LONG before
the WPA decided to invent itself. Untill relatively, quite recently, only American players
competed. No one is exactly breaking the door down to have 14.1 tournaments.
So, it is as much a world championship as it ever was, more, actually.

Would you enjoin baseball from using the term 'World Series'?

Dale
Click to expand...

This. If the best 14.1 players from all over the world show up to play it seems totally appropriate to me to call this the World Championship.
 
pdcue said:
Do a little fact finding. There was a World Straight Pool Championship LONG before
the WPA decided to invent itself. Untill relatively, quite recently, only American players
competed. No one is exactly breaking the door down to have 14.1 tournaments.
So, it is as much a world championship as it ever was, more, actually.

Would you enjoin baseball from using the term 'World Series'?

Dale
Click to expand...

I think the World Series in baseball is a reference to a now defunct newspaper. OK I looked into that and I was wrong. Here is what I found.

The term "World Series" first appeared in the Spalding Guides (guides to the game published by the Spalding Athletic Company in the late 19th and early 20th centuries) in 1917, but didn't appear in the Sporting News (which has been published since 1886) until 1964, according to the Dickson Baseball Dictionary.

The early programs and scorecards read "World's Championship Series." The first time the series program was labeled with the term "World Series" was in 1936. The Cleveland scorecard, in 1920, and the Washington scorecard, in 1924, were labeled "World Series."

"A popular myth is that the World Series was named for the New York World Telegram," says Berowski. Although the newspaper reported the game's results , Berowski said, Barney Dreyfuss deserves credit for naming the series.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
This. If the best 14.1 players from all over the world show up to play it seems totally appropriate to me to call this the World Championship.
Click to expand...

You are correct sir. I do not think the WPA should own the rights to the word "World" I think it is great that Dragon is putting on another tourney. If people do not like it than they should put on their own tourney. I think the added money issue is the primary sticking point anyway between WPA and Dragon otherwise it would still be sanctioned by the WPA. If any of the haters want perhaps they should start a fund to raise the money so the World 14.1 tourney becomes official. I for one do not expect much to be raised from he cheap seat as all sit behind their keyboards and hate on people who are doing something.

Good luck to all who participate.
 
itsfroze said:
But don't state that this is the longest running tournament in the World (because CW wants to eclipse BB's U.S. Open 9-Ball Championships)
or imply that it is a "World Championship" for neither are true!
Click to expand...

FTR, the U.S. Open is NOT the longest running tournament in the world, although many believe it is. The Texas Open, a decent tournament in its own right, started the year BEFORE the U.S. Open did and is still going strong after all these years.

As far as calling the Predator 14.1 tournament a "World" championship, what does it matter? Semantics is all that it is.






"What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

William Shakespeare





Maniac
 
I'm not a CW fan but for years the world tournament was dormant and at least this has revived it. The format needs to be changed, it dragged on too long last year due to the 200 ball matches in the final rounds and finished in the wee hours of the morning, but at least it is a world class field.

Given a choice between CW running the tournament and no tournament, I'll take the former.
 
pdcue said:
Do a little fact finding. There was a World Straight Pool Championship LONG before
the WPA decided to invent itself. Untill relatively, quite recently, only American players
competed. No one is exactly breaking the door down to have 14.1 tournaments.
So, it is as much a world championship as it ever was, more, actually.

Would you enjoin baseball from using the term 'World Series'?

Dale
Click to expand...

itsfroze said:
You may like to think that, just as they like to call it that.
There's one small problem there, the organization that
sanctions "World Championships" says differently.
As well as, I would imagine, do the people that have actually
jumped all the hurdles to be rightfully called a "World Championship."
Click to expand...

I think Dale has it right. World championships in 14.1 (which was then considered "the" pool game to determine the mettle of a player) were held l-o-n-g before the WPA was even an entity. Now, suddenly, the WPA comes on the scene, and they want to rewrite the history books by not recognizing the world championships that were held prior to their existence. It's the old "not invented here" thinking all over again.

Think of and call CW anything what you want, but at least his championship is the only one keeping 14.1 in the pool public's eye. I'm not a CW fan by any stretch of the imagination. But I know not to bite the hand that feeds me. Players are flying in from all over the world to play in this championship. So CW has every right to call it that -- a world championship.

Just because the WPA popped into existence, doesn't give them squatter's rights to the word "world," nor does it give them "revisionist history" rights, either.

You need to take your rose-colored glasses, off, itsfroze, and recognize the efforts of those that are trying to keep pool alive in this country. Notice I said "in this country" -- because that's where this -- and all previously "controversial" CW 14.1 World's championships -- were, and are, being held. The WPA -- and its smacked-down red-headed stepchild, the BCA -- certainly aren't doing it.

-Sean
 
14.1 world TOURNAMENT

This is an old topic.
I agree that CW has done a lot to help revive 14.1.

But to pretend that this is the 72nd event is just wrong.
Please note that this is being called 'world tournament' - and it is not a world championship.

I am glad it is taking place - just stop with the 72nd crap.

Go back and look at the names on the perpetual trophy- it is nonsense.

The WPA issue is an old one and they are the recognized authority for pool. This is legitimate recognition by the Olympic organizations.

To ignore that is not being realistic. They have rules that must be met to qualify as a world championship. If this are not upheld, then everyone can have a world championship in their basement.

The biggest problem is that the US does not work well with the procedures and policies that most of the world accepts.

There are many reasons why- and this is always a long debate.

Pool is still in its infancy as a world recognized sport and there will probably be much controversy in the future. I think part of the reason is the passion that pool creates in those that play.

Just my thoughts,

Mark Griffin
 
Unless and until someone puts on a 14.1 tournament that meets the criteria the WPA requires, who the hell cares? It's not like CW is using a title that belongs to someone else, and it appears to be the biggest 14.1 tournament currently....

Tilt on, Don Quixote.
 
Mark Griffin said:
This is an old topic.
I agree that CW has done a lot to help revive 14.1.

But to pretend that this is the 72nd event is just wrong.
Please note that this is being called 'world tournament' - and it is not a world championship.

I am glad it is taking place - just stop with the 72nd crap.

Go back and look at the names on the perpetual trophy- it is nonsense.

The WPA issue is an old one and they are the recognized authority for pool. This is legitimate recognition by the Olympic organizations.

To ignore that is not being realistic. They have rules that must be met to qualify as a world championship. If this are not upheld, then everyone can have a world championship in their basement.

The biggest problem is that the US does not work well with the procedures and policies that most of the world accepts.

There are many reasons why- and this is always a long debate.

Pool is still in its infancy as a world recognized sport and there will probably be much controversy in the future. I think part of the reason is the passion that pool creates in those that play.

Just my thoughts,

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

Mark:

We luv ya, man, but there's a significant fault with the "...if the WPA's rules are not upheld, then anyone can have a world championship in their basement" thinking. That fault is the recognition itself, which is tied to the entity(ies) that created and are backing it. I don't think anyone would argue that a "world's championship" held out of a nobody's basement would be quickly dismissed and called out for what it is -- an opportunistic marketing FAIL.

However, if someone like, say, yourself were to want to use the "world" in connection with a huge tournament that CSI wanted to put on, I don't think anyone would argue with it -- other than for WPA loyalty -- and would get on board, recognizing the fact that you'd draw players from around the world.

  • Is CW's use of the term "world championship" a bit on the self-serving marketing side? You bet -- I don't doubt that for a minute.
  • But is it the only show in town, because noone else in the world (read: in WPA's world) is able or willing to hold a tournament of this caliber for this recognized pool discipline? Yup, you bet.
  • And are the players and spectators for this "tournament" willing to accept this is the only show in town to draw the top 14.1 players from around the world, to compete for not only the money, but for the pride and recognition that they've beaten the best 14.1 players in the world? Again, you bet.
You're right, this is an old argument, and it comes up each time this "tournament" is held. But at the end of the day -- each and every time -- the victor's achievements are celebrated not only on these boards, but across the pool world. The little discrepancy with the use of that phrase "world championship" quickly dries up and blows away like chaff in the wind.

-Sean
 
To quote Bob......

WPA

Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

If the WPA isn't holding a World Championship for 14.1 then they should get out of the way, lend a hand, do what ever it takes for today's best straight pool players to be recognized.

In the end this refusal to do so hurts the players and the sport.

This is of course just my opinion.
 
14.1 world tournament

Hey Sean-

Have a good 4th.

Not going to get into lengthy discussion - but

It is usually referred to as '72nd world tournament'

It is a great 14.1 event.
It can be called a world tournament - NOT same as a 'World Championship.
It should not be called 72nd of 'anything'

It is ,mis leading and inaccurate - and just cheapens the whole process.

I agree the player can take pride in winning this event but to suggest the winners name will have the same impact as if it were a 'World Championship' is probably not true.

This is not about CW - this is about the integrity of the game.

Talk to you later- hope you do well, if you are playing.
(see-you can have civil discussions even if you don't agree!)

Mark Griffin

On a side note, we will be announcing some of our new plans for the US OPEN
Events held in conjunction with the BCAPL nationals - held at the Rio from July 17-27, 2013. It is good news!!
 
Mark Griffin said:
Hey Sean-

Have a good 4th.

Not going to get into lengthy discussion - but

It is usually referred to as '72nd world tournament'

It is a great 14.1 event.
It can be called a world tournament - NOT same as a 'World Championship.
It should not be called 72nd of 'anything'

It is ,mis leading and inaccurate - and just cheapens the whole process.

I agree the player can take pride in winning this event but to suggest the winners name will have the same impact as if it were a 'World Championship' is probably not true.

This is not about CW - this is about the integrity of the game.

Talk to you later- hope you do well, if you are playing.
(see-you can have civil discussions even if you don't agree!)

Mark Griffin

On a side note, we will be announcing some of our new plans for the US OPEN
Events held in conjunction with the BCAPL nationals - held at the Rio from July 17-27, 2013. It is good news!!
Click to expand...

Mark:

Concerning the bolded part, yes sir, I heartily agree. And I'm diligently working out my schedule at work, to see if I can play in it. The problem is that the summer tends to be a "dry time" for the books, and management has a push on to keep the numbers up so the quarter's results aren't a complete loss. So we on the consulting frontlines suffer. :(

I wish a wonderful 4th to you and yours, and all at CSI. There's a song for one of your employees, too -- "Holly Holly Holly get yer fireworks here..." :D

Best and warmest regards,
-Sean
 
I guess we should all be looking forward to someone coming along with the money to hold a WPA sanctioned World Straight Pool Championship contested on the same dates as CW's event and thereby put CW's tournament out of business.

Can't wait for this to happen - probably in Dubai in the middle of the night US time with zero participation by any American players and no stream. :rolleyes:
 
Mark Griffin said:
It is usually referred to as '72nd world tournament'

It is a great 14.1 event.
It can be called a world tournament - NOT same as a 'World Championship.
It should not be called 72nd of 'anything'
Click to expand...

That there was bang on.

If Charlie wants to build a new World Straight Pool Event then good for Charlie, but he is not running the same historic event that Mosconi, Crane, and all of the other legend competed for.

He certainly does his best to try and pretend it is one in the same though.
 
The facts are this...people (promoters) have been holding tournaments of all varieties, and calling them 'world championships' for more than 50 years...all without the "say so" of the BCA, WPA or whoever. If you've got the money, and put on an event, imo, you can call it whatever you want. I'm not a fan of CW either, but at least he's putting on an event that nobody else wants to do, and many (not even close to all) of the world's best players come and play. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
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