Pro Pool players courting disaster

[Kid Dynomite]

...and about $13,000 in lost rent for "courtesy".

I understand that the schedule is not perfect for you Mark, and sure $13k is not a ton of money compared to a million, but it's still a gigantic sum of money. I really don't understand how you could ever expect someone to forfeit that simply out of courtesy.

This makes NO SENSE!

If you have a year lease which is 52 weeks and you have a 26 week schedule then 52-26=26 weeks of down time! Period

There is no way around that! The down time can occur during a week with NOTHING scheduled or in the middle of events! Bonus ball is CHOOSING in the middle of events!

So, bonus ball is saying it is a money issue! 36 bonus ball professionals need to raise 13,000 to go for the 3 weeks? 13k /36= 361.11 a piece! So, added money for ultimate. 75k plus southern 100k plus us open bca 100k! According to my math it's a no brainer. The 36 players will make more then enough to cover the 13k!

Now, the pro players make 1000 a week and one week they get 638.89 instead. The players have been jerked around by the building delays! Now you want to jerk them around over $362??? Wow just wow!!!

Kd


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[JB Cases]

...and about $13,000 in lost rent for "courtesy".

I understand that the schedule is not perfect for you Mark, and sure $13k is not a ton of money compared to a million, but it's still a gigantic sum of money. I really don't understand how you could ever expect someone to forfeit that simply out of courtesy.

13k was a gigantic sum in 1913. Now it's not that much. Just saying that 13k gets spent REAL quick in most businesses including mine.

Once again though, having the majority of BB players out in Tunica mixing it up getting on the streams, hyping Bonus Ball and getting people excited for the game would PROBABLY pay off way more than the rent for a week.

If you got say 100 extra subscribers for the season what would that be? That's an extra 10k right there but it could be more. Imagine, JUST IMAGINE, that you had a table in Tunica, the pros constantly there playing Bonus Ball with the fans AND you were signing people up for the PPV. What if you got 500 subscribers out of that?

And sold a ton of signed team shirts?

The upside to using Tunica to promote BB is worth a lot more than causing strife and certainly not worth the 13k. Wouldn't it be great if Mark were willing to help out BB with a plug to the 60,000+ BCA League members? Or not, maybe you guys already have something much bigger lined up but it's always nice to play nice with the other folks in the business when you can. (Yes I am talking to you Jack.....kidding)

 

[JAM]

13k was a gigantic sum in 1913. Now it's not that much. Just saying that 13k gets spent REAL quick in most businesses including mine.

Once again though, having the majority of BB players out in Tunica mixing it up getting on the streams, hyping Bonus Ball and getting people excited for the game would PROBABLY pay off way more than the rent for a week.

If you got say 100 extra subscribers for the season what would that be? That's an extra 10k right there but it could be more. Imagine, JUST IMAGINE, that you had a table in Tunica, the pros constantly there playing Bonus Ball with the fans AND you were signing people up for the PPV. What if you got 500 subscribers out of that?

And sold a ton of signed team shirts?

The upside to using Tunica to promote BB is worth a lot more than causing strife and certainly not worth the 13k. Wouldn't it be great if Mark were willing to help out BB with a plug to the 60,000+ BCA League members? Or not, maybe you guys already have something much bigger lined up but it's always nice to play nice with the other folks in the business when you can. (Yes I am talking to you Jack.....kidding)

You actually have raised some good points, John. Food for thought!

I still side with the pro players on this one as far as choice, though I do understand why loyalty to valued promoters who have supported professional pool in the past -- NOT MANY DO ANYMORE! -- is very important to acknowledge. :yes:

Regional tours have changed their eligibility rules in that pros must pay a higher entry fee and/or spot amateur players games in the tournament. Tough to win, for example, when you have to spot somebody 13 to 3 in one-pocket because you're a pro.

Again, as we sit in the comforts of our home, thanks to working our traditional 9-to-5 jobs, many of the professional pool players, if not most, do not have this security in life. They don't have a fat stakehorse with deep pockets paying their expenses and giving them financial security. They are living in the moment, so to speak. BB's proposition, therefore, is attractive to them. I definitely get that. They need to eat, sleep, and be merry too. :grin-square:

Instead of saying the damage is done or taking sides, maybe the BB admin and pro players will recognize the value of working within the realms of the existing pool industry. I don't think they should change course at this juncture, but I do think they need to develop an open mind for future logistics. :wink:

 

[Nostroke]

I wasn't picking on Daz, I haven't said more than 12 words to him in my life so I don't know his qualifications. He seems like a solid guy from what I hear. I do wonder what your interaction with him has been to come with your conclusion above?

Anyways, my point that you missed is that if the president of the ABP can only point out that Daz is a good guy that can draw his ball when making this appointment to his board, there is the issue.

Here is the exact quote since I paraphrased the second half. ""Darren is a great guy and great player. He travels to every big tournament around the world so he will be great eyes and ears for the ABP Board. He's a smart, fair person and I know he will be an asset to the pro tour"

I didnt say you knocked Daz or meant to imply it. If there was knock there, I'd say it was on Johnny. I was just trying to point out despite JA'a poor endorsement Daz may turn out to be one of the better guys on the board. I did say IMO also. WTH is with you?. Are you still thinking I "threatened a lot of people" in some Dippy situation a while back? If so you are confusing me with someone else. Im 65- I can barely threaten to get a hard-on.

Ive known Daz for years- since the first day he walked into Masters in Queens a year or so after his BCA Natl Bar Table win and no one knew who he was except me. I even helped him enter a tourny with a 'full field' 4-5 yrs back. Talked with him many many times-most recently at the SBE.

 

[thewhiffer]

Yes, the "Barter Deals" are the secret system for getting pool on TV {at a reasonable cost}.
The key element will be the character development for a pool show to do well on TV "

All good points (I edited it down to these two as they address the television aspect so well).

In my opinion (I can support each of these positions with sound arguement) the best format would be 8 ball (I would settle for 10 ball) with it being a race to 5, alternate break, referee racks, the character development encouraged as you suggest. The initial broadcasts should be live over a 4 day period (this would be a challenge) and then syndicated. I this was not feasible I would settle for taped segments building to a live final.

 

[JAM]

...WTH is with you?. Are you still thinking I "threatened a lot of people" in some Dippy situation a while back? If so you are confusing me with someone else. Im 65- I can barely threaten to get a hard-on.

:rotflmao: Thanks for the morning chuckle!

BTW, you look good in gold!

 

[Nostroke]

:rotflmao: Thanks for the morning chuckle!

BTW, you look good in gold!

Thanks -I would be gold all the time but AZB, at least to my knowledge, never lets you know when you're due to re-up. Ive been meaning to ask Mike about that. I know im not the only one who might take months to realized that they have been downgraded.

 

[Johnnyt]

Thanks -I would be gold all the time but AZB, at least to my knowledge, never lets you know when you're due to re-up. Ive been meaning to ask Mike about that. I know im not the only one who might take months to realized that they have been downgraded.

I get an e-mail from AZ letting me know that my membership is about to run out. Johnnyt

 

[Diamond69]

This makes NO SENSE!

If you have a year lease which is 52 weeks and you have a 26 week schedule then 52-26=26 weeks of down time! Period

There is no way around that! The down time can occur during a week with NOTHING scheduled or in the middle of events! Bonus ball is choosing in the middle of events!

So, bonus ball is saying it is a money issue! 36 bonus ball professionals need to raise 13,000 to go for the 3 weeks? 13k /36= 361.11 a piece! So, added money for ultimate. 75k plus southern 100k plus us open bca 100k! According to my math it's a no brainer. The 36 players will make more then enough to cover the 13k!

Now, the pro players make 1000 a week and one week they get 638.89 instead. The players have been jerked around by the building delays! Now you want to jerk them around over $362??? Wow just wow!!!

Kd


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Rep to ya KD. I'm sure Nathan will have a response, but your math looks good to me!

 

[Diamond69]

13k was a gigantic sum in 1913. Now it's not that much. Just saying that 13k gets spent REAL quick in most businesses including mine.

Once again though, having the majority of BB players out in Tunica mixing it up getting on the streams, hyping Bonus Ball and getting people excited for the game would PROBABLY pay off way more than the rent for a week.

If you got say 100 extra subscribers for the season what would that be? That's an extra 10k right there but it could be more. Imagine, JUST IMAGINE, that you had a table in Tunica, the pros constantly there playing Bonus Ball with the fans AND you were signing people up for the PPV. What if you got 500 subscribers out of that?

And sold a ton of signed team shirts?

The upside to using Tunica to promote BB is worth a lot more than causing strife and certainly not worth the 13k. Wouldn't it be great if Mark were willing to help out BB with a plug to the 60,000+ BCA League members? Or not, maybe you guys already have something much bigger lined up but it's always nice to play nice with the other folks in the business when you can. (Yes I am talking to you Jack.....kidding)

JB, you really needed to be in the room helping out with BB's business plan. I think they left the marketing and good will portion out. You really nailed it, and I bet they would have sold enough jersey's in just a few tournaments to cover the $13k, as well as build a fan base.

 

[Nostroke]

I get an e-mail from AZ letting me know that my membership is about to run out. Johnnyt

Oh ok-i may have signed up with some secondary email that i never look at-I'll check.

EDIT-Its the right one one now but i may have recently switched it from a secondary or tertiary one. Vague recollection.

 

[one stroke]

You actually have raised some good points, John. Food for thought!

I still side with the pro players on this one as far as choice, though I do understand why loyalty to valued promoters who have supported professional pool in the past -- NOT MANY DO ANYMORE! -- is very important to acknowledge. :yes:

Regional tours have changed their eligibility rules in that pros must pay a higher entry fee and/or spot amateur players games in the tournament. Tough to win, for example, when you have to spot somebody 13 to 3 in one-pocket because you're a pro.

Again, as we sit in the comforts of our home, thanks to working our traditional 9-to-5 jobs, many of the professional pool players, if not most, do not have this security in life. They don't have a fat stakehorse with deep pockets paying their expenses and giving them financial security. They are living in the moment, so to speak. BB's proposition, therefore, is attractive to them. I definitely get that. They need to eat, sleep, and be merry too. :grin-square:

Instead of saying the damage is done or taking sides, maybe the BB admin and pro players will recognize the value of working within the realms of the existing pool industry. I don't think they should change course at this juncture, but I do think they need to develop an open mind for future logistics. :wink:

The reginal tours use a sliding scale for the entry fee to keep the lesser players playing in them , not many handicap games ,,

The truth of the matter is their are many high leval amatures that can knock of the pro players a pro player does not have to win the event


Pool halls / night clubs ,, dont see much return on thier money for instance as you now planet pool had events with around a 100 players many top names keith being one and would be lucky to get 30 spectators, .. a pong turny , texas express tunrny , or a big sporting event offers a much bigger profit margin than pool could ever dream of

Maybe if they tone up sport Chipindale outfits and Bikinis they will become a spectator event or maybe not


1

 

[Fast Lenny]

I love when people talk about what they would do with other peoples money and like $13,000 is nothing. Its not the players money, it is the rent cost. Season 2 is supposed to start right after Season 1 if I understand correctly so there really is no room for downtime. Do The Math! :grin:

 

[nathandumoulin]

This makes NO SENSE!

If you have a year lease which is 52 weeks and you have a 26 week schedule then 52-26=26 weeks of down time! Period There is no way around that! The down time can occur during a week with NOTHING scheduled or in the middle of events! Bonus ball is CHOOSING in the middle of events!

This has been addressed twice already in this thread. The second season will start 8 weeks after the first one, meaning that we will have income 10 out of 12 months. We also have someone potentially interested in leasing the studio during the down time. As such, each week of downtime does cost money.

Once again though, having the majority of BB players out in Tunica mixing it up getting on the streams, hyping Bonus Ball and getting people excited for the game would PROBABLY pay off way more than the rent for a week.

So you're suggesting that we take the week off, and then pay our players to go play in these events (which we would have to), to play a game that isn't the game we want to promote, to a demographic that is not our target demographic?

You just went from $13k for downtime, to around $50k-$100k. Even at $13k, it's a big hit. I just keep hearing the old "I'd do this and and I'd do that", when none of the solutions are practical. People also keep saying $13k is chump change, but that's really easy to say when you aren't the one writing the checks. Try telling an investor that they should spend 5-figures to help someone that they've never met because "its the nice thing to do".

 

[Diamond69]

Who is your target market?

Nathan,
I've seen you post several times about pool players not being your target market. I'm not piling on, just rather confused as to this statement. I know some things such as your business plan you don't want to divulge on the forum. Is this something you can speak about?

And if pool players are not the target market, why all the discussions on BB in the AZB forums? And if you have a new venture such as this, wouldn't you want as large of a target market as possible? Some of your statements almost suggest that you don't want pool players to be fans of the new game, yet pool players are the only ones familiar with the players in BB.

Just looking for a little clarity is all. I want anything to do with pool to thrive, and I hope the other tournaments thrive as well regardless of the attendance of the pros that can't/won't attend.

 

[Scott Lee]

Dave...I get an automatic email every year, from Mike, a few days before I need to renew. You CAN set it up to renew automatically, you know!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks -I would be gold all the time but AZB, at least to my knowledge, never lets you know when you're due to re-up. Ive been meaning to ask Mike about that. I know im not the only one who might take months to realized that they have been downgraded.

 

[Scott Lee]

JAM...I understand your point, but your example is extreme. Nobody in regional tour events is getting that kind of spot. Gambling, sure...tournament play, no way!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Regional tours have changed their eligibility rules in that pros must pay a higher entry fee and/or spot amateur players games in the tournament. Tough to win, for example, when you have to spot somebody 13 to 3 in one-pocket because you're a pro. :wink:

 

[JAM]

JAM...I understand your point, but your example is extreme. Nobody in regional tour events is getting that kind of spot. Gambling, sure...tournament play, no way!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

With all due respect, Scott, Keith did have to give out that spot at a one-pocket tournament last year in Arlington, Virginia.

 

[jimmyg]

Reposted in part from another thread....

Nathan,
I've seen you post several times about pool players not being your target market. I'm not piling on, just rather confused as to this statement. I know some things such as your business plan you don't want to divulge on the forum. Is this something you can speak about?

And if pool players are not the target market, why all the discussions on BB in the AZB forums? And if you have a new venture such as this, wouldn't you want as large of a target market as possible? Some of your statements almost suggest that you don't want pool players to be fans of the new game, yet pool players are the only ones familiar with the players in BB.

Just looking for a little clarity is all. I want anything to do with pool to thrive, and I hope the other tournaments thrive as well regardless of the attendance of the pros that can't/won't attend.

"Secondly, we are, in fact, pool's only world "market" regardless of what anyone says or wants to believe....there is no pool market other than we pool players, just as a new baby food company cannot ignore the millions of existing babies in the world who must eat, we pool players cannot be ignored. To anyone other than us, these extremely talented professional pool players, even in their new multicolored hockey jerseys, are, and will remain, complete unknowns."

J

 

[Ken_4fun]

With all due respect, Scott, Keith did have to give out that spot at a one-pocket tournament last year in Arlington, Virginia.

Yeah, but did he win?

Ken