New direction for the players

Paying For Signatures

Freddy this is a terrible idea. Keep in mind alot of these professional events have an entry fee to watch the pro's play and any signatures aquired at these events should be free for this reason alone.

I wouldn't mind paying for a signature (on a photo of the player) when sold on the internet or store (since I didn't support the professional event).

Your still OK with me Freddy. I have your "Banking with the Beard" on my Christmas list and I'm sure I will get a copy (HOPEFULLY SIGNED BY YOU!)
 
Personally I don't see anything wrong with Freddy's idea if there is a market for the product. People keep comparing it to other sports. Different players have different attitudes.

Dan Marino has had a contract with Upper Deck for years and WILL NOT sign anything unless it is at a show or promotion.

Mark McGwire would only sign a limited # of items at a game. He had a plan to reap the rewards after his retirement, to go on the autograph circuit. Too bad steroids seem to have derailed his plan.

Mickey Mantle came out of virtual bankruptcy by figuring out that his autograph was worth something. He signed anything & everything for $$$ and even sold many of his items from his playing days.

Jeanette Lee is at the BCA in Vegas each year selling photos that you can take with her. I feel that she is the most marketable & market savvy pool player alive. Robin Dodson has her booth & last year was selling autograph pictures of her son (some Nicklelodeon TV show star that I never heard of).

The problem Freddy is going to have is that he now wants to charge for something that most people before got for nothing. It worked for the bottle water people but not sure it will work for Pro Pool Player autographs. I think if Freddy put a small group of players in his autograph stable that would be a start. I think that the word 'pro' is also being used to liberally in the pool world. I won't point fingers.

I think it is great that JAM sends autographed pics of Keith to people at her own expense. I think it would be greater if Keith and others could make a profit & a living at playing pool.
 
watchez said:
Personally I don't see anything wrong with Freddy's idea if there is a market for the product. People keep comparing it to other sports. Different players have different attitudes.

Dan Marino has had a contract with Upper Deck for years and WILL NOT sign anything unless it is at a show or promotion.

Mark McGwire would only sign a limited # of items at a game. He had a plan to reap the rewards after his retirement, to go on the autograph circuit. Too bad steroids seem to have derailed his plan.

Mickey Mantle came out of virtual bankruptcy by figuring out that his autograph was worth something. He signed anything & everything for $$$ and even sold many of his items from his playing days.

Jeanette Lee is at the BCA in Vegas each year selling photos that you can take with her. I feel that she is the most marketable & market savvy pool player alive. Robin Dodson has her booth & last year was selling autograph pictures of her son (some Nicklelodeon TV show star that I never heard of).

The problem Freddy is going to have is that he now wants to charge for something that most people before got for nothing. It worked for the bottle water people but not sure it will work for Pro Pool Player autographs. I think if Freddy put a small group of players in his autograph stable that would be a start. I think that the word 'pro' is also being used to liberally in the pool world. I won't point fingers.

I think it is great that JAM sends autographed pics of Keith to people at her own expense. I think it would be greater if Keith and others could make a profit & a living at playing pool.
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You are right about Jeanette selling autographed items, I have never seen her turn down an autograph request from a fan even if they wanted her to sign the same type of item she has for sale.

I was talking to George one day and Jeanette was signing some autographs for a group of people. They were asking some of the most asinine questions in the world and Jeanette just smiled and answered them politely. I asked George "God man how does she put up with that?" he said "She is just good at it". He was right. It is not easy, it takes work and effort to build a following.

Where everyone has their wires crossed in this thread is the idea of pros refusing to sign free autographs for fans at events.

Players should be paid for merchandise they sign that is to be sold.

Anyone that says a player should turn away a fan who asks for an autograph at an event and say "You gotta buy it from the booth" is beyond shortsighted.

Give a fan an autograph and be civil to them and before you know it they will WANT to go to the booth to get the latest limited edition signed widget in order to support the nice player that gave them a free autograph. It sure won't happen overnight but that is the only possible way for it TO happen at all.

As far as comparing MLB players to Pro pool players it is apples to bowling balls. Two different things. The heart to be the best is the same but everything else surrounding the situations is not. Hopefully in the future it can change.
 
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great post

Nothing short of a great post. This addresses the whole deal well.

Hu



JCIN said:
You are right about Jeanette selling autographed items, I have never seen her turn down an autograph request from a fan even if they wanted her to sign the same type of item she has for sale.

I was talking to George one day and Jeanette was signing some autographs for a group of people. They were asking some of the most asinine questions in the world and Jeanette just smiled and answered them politely. I asked George "God man how does she put up with that?" he said "She is just good at it". He was right. It is not easy, it takes work and effort to build a following.

Where everyone has their wires crossed in this thread is the idea of pros refusing to sign free autographs for fans at events.

Players should be paid for merchandise they sign that is to be sold.

Anyone that says a player should turn away a fan who asks for an autograph at an event and say "You gotta buy it from the booth" is beyond shortsighted.

Give a fan an autograph and be civil to them and before you know it they will WANT to go to the booth to get the latest limited edition signed widget in order to support the nice player that gave them a free autograph. It sure won't happen overnight but that is the only possible way for it TO happen at all.
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The memorbilia gig is a tough one, I worked out a deal with Reggie Jackson(i know him well and yes they did roids back in the 70's too) about 5 years ago to sell alot of baseball stuff in a catalog I publish, it was all real, Reggie's company would fly in the BB players to do the signings on everything possible, they had everything you could imagine, they paid the players $5-$30 per item to sign up front, most players were retired Hall of Fame players, big sport big names, and he lost his ass, i couldnt get much of it sold either, selling autographed stuff liiks good on paper but thats where it ends, Freddy save your $$$. Reggie couldnt do it neither can you IMO, not a knock, but stick to writing books your good at it. I appericate your idea and concept but it wont work. the old saying "stick to what you know" applies here, books are your gig keep at it.
 
I would like to mention that some players, like Jeanette Lee as an example, are paid to attend SOME -- not all -- pool tournaments. At the same event, the majority of players competing in the same tournament do not get free entry, free hotel, and an appearance fee to show up, win or lose.

That said, most tournaments I have attended, players sign autographs for free. I can only think of one or two RARE occasions when they did not.

JAM
 
JAM said:
I would like to mention that some players, like Jeanette Lee as an example, are paid to attend SOME -- not all -- pool tournaments. At the same event, the majority of players competing in the same tournament do not get free entry, free hotel, and an appearance fee to show up, win or lose.

That said, most tournaments I have attended, players sign autographs for free. I can only think of one or two RARE occasions when they did not.

JAM
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Jeanette gets what she gets because she has worked harder than anyone else to market and promote herself. She has built a fan base. Those fans will come to an event soley to see her.

I have seen first hand how hard she works at what she does. It is impressive and she deserves everything she gets.
 
JCIN said:
Jeanette gets what she gets because she has worked harder than anyone else to market and promote herself. She has built a fan base. Those fans will come to an event soley to see her.

I have seen first hand how hard she works at what she does. It is impressive and she deserves everything she gets.
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I agree with you and was not in any way meaning anything negative about Jeanette Lee.

It would seem, though, that any player who is paid to attend an event would be very happy to sign an autograph. My point was there are MANY players who are NOT paid to attend tournaments and sign autographs for free as well.

JAM
 
I agree Jeanette Lee has earned every penny shes made because of hard work at her game and hard work promoting herself over the years. After being a top player and good looking, the one thing that put her above the rest was the name "the Black Widow" and always wearing nice black outfits. Those Brooklyn chicks are slick. Johnnyt
 
JAM said:
I agree with you and was not in any way meaning anything negative about Jeanette Lee.

It would seem, though, that any player who is paid to attend an event would be very happy to sign an autograph. My point was there are MANY players who are NOT paid to attend tournaments and sign autographs for free as well.

JAM
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I see your point but I also see that without fans and spectators there are no events other than small ones. All players should sign autographs for fans for free. Now if some guy rolls up with a box of 16 cueballs the player should just start talking price.

Keith is a perfect example of someone who can draw fans to come see HIM at a tournament. But the first time he told someone "You gotta go to the booth" that would change.(I don't think he ever would) But because people like him they would be willing to pay for certain things if they were done right.
 
there is the difference

JCIN said:
talking price.

Keith is a perfect example of someone who can draw fans to come see HIM at a tournament. But the first time he told someone "You gotta go to the booth" that would change.(I don't think he ever would) But because people like him they would be willing to pay for certain things if they were done right.
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That is the difference. It is a fine line but offer signed merchandise for sale and some people will be glad to buy. Tell them that is the only way that they will get an autograph and many will stick their toes in and forget about the autograph . . . and forget about supporting that player, maybe all players.

Hu
 
CHICAGO7 said:
I doubt it will ever fly. I'ts just the nature of the game that too many pool players are not roll models but unsavory characters not above dumping matches from time to time. Who would pay money for a dumpers autograph??? Comparing pool players to sports legends is ridiculous. They make Barry Bonds look like Mother Teresa.
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As an avid follower of sports and pool for the past 45 years, I would offer the following:
Serious transgressions of "sports legends": murder, rape (forcible and statutory), financing and presenting dogfights, point shaving, vehicular DWI manslaughter, armed robbery, drug trafficking, embezzlement, money laundering, forgery, physical spouse abuse, fraud (dealing in fake autographed items), assault and battery, perjury, bribery, use of banned substances, blood doping, contributing to the delinquency of minors, failure to pay child support, ad nauseum.
Serious transfressions of pro pool players: drug trafficking (served his time and is now on the square).
I have no hard data to support this, but I would hazard a guess that there is more financial chicanery happening on the golf courses than in the pool rooms. Titanic Thompson claimed golf hustlers were a couple of levels shadier than pool hustlers, and he was conversent in both worlds.
I have known many pro pool players as well as pros in other sports/disciplines, and I consider the pool players to be a pretty honorable lot, who put great stock in their reputation, while the other pros put great stock in constant and immediate self-gratification.
One story, which is representative of my experience with pro pool players: I threw in with Charlie Williams in an ahead match, I had to leave before the match was completed, they quit with no winner, even though he was dead tired and disappointed, Charlie went out of his way to make sure I got my dough back promptly. Pro pool players are better people than they are given credit for, and I will go to my deathbed defending them.
 
I work at a hotel in NYC that gets a lot of sport figures and entire teams staying with us. Everytime there are a ton of fans out front waiting for them. I have seen a lot of autographs signed, and NEVER has there been a fee involved! And I am talking Pedro, Shaq, Tiger, Joe Montana etc, etc, etc
 
jnav447 said:
As an avid follower of sports and pool for the past 45 years, I would offer the following:
Serious transgressions of "sports legends": murder, rape (forcible and statutory), financing and presenting dogfights, point shaving, vehicular DWI manslaughter, armed robbery, drug trafficking, embezzlement, money laundering, forgery, physical spouse abuse, fraud (dealing in fake autographed items), assault and battery, perjury, bribery, use of banned substances, blood doping, contributing to the delinquency of minors, failure to pay child support, ad nauseum.
Serious transfressions of pro pool players: drug trafficking (served his time and is now on the square).
I have no hard data to support this, but I would hazard a guess that there is more financial chicanery happening on the golf courses than in the pool rooms. Titanic Thompson claimed golf hustlers were a couple of levels shadier than pool hustlers, and he was conversent in both worlds.
I have known many pro pool players as well as pros in other sports/disciplines, and I consider the pool players to be a pretty honorable lot, who put great stock in their reputation, while the other pros put great stock in constant and immediate self-gratification.
One story, which is representative of my experience with pro pool players: I threw in with Charlie Williams in an ahead match, I had to leave before the match was completed, they quit with no winner, even though he was dead tired and disappointed, Charlie went out of his way to make sure I got my dough back promptly. Pro pool players are better people than they are given credit for, and I will go to my deathbed defending them.
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I've been around pool for 40 years too and what other sport is there that you will have the entire field (compromised of Hall of Fame players) get together and bet on one player and fix the entire tournament as happened in the last decade. I even watched a Hall of Fame player doctoring up a table in the morning for his one pocket match in the evening. But that's the nature of the game it's con man against con man.
 
CHICAGO7 said:
I've been around pool for 40 years too and what other sport is there that you will have the entire field (compromised of Hall of Fame players)
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compromised...lol...Freudian slip? I was thinking comprised, but you may be right...;)
 
jnav447 said:
As an avid follower of sports and pool for the past 45 years, I would offer the following:
Serious transgressions of "sports legends": murder, rape (forcible and statutory), financing and presenting dogfights, point shaving, vehicular DWI manslaughter, armed robbery, drug trafficking, embezzlement, money laundering, forgery, physical spouse abuse, fraud (dealing in fake autographed items), assault and battery, perjury, bribery, use of banned substances, blood doping, contributing to the delinquency of minors, failure to pay child support, ad nauseum.
Serious transfressions of pro pool players: drug trafficking (served his time and is now on the square).
I have no hard data to support this, but I would hazard a guess that there is more financial chicanery happening on the golf courses than in the pool rooms. Titanic Thompson claimed golf hustlers were a couple of levels shadier than pool hustlers, and he was conversent in both worlds.
I have known many pro pool players as well as pros in other sports/disciplines, and I consider the pool players to be a pretty honorable lot, who put great stock in their reputation, while the other pros put great stock in constant and immediate self-gratification.
One story, which is representative of my experience with pro pool players: I threw in with Charlie Williams in an ahead match, I had to leave before the match was completed, they quit with no winner, even though he was dead tired and disappointed, Charlie went out of his way to make sure I got my dough back promptly. Pro pool players are better people than they are given credit for, and I will go to my deathbed defending them.
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Most are, a few aren't. Caveat emptor.
 
living in LA I know alot of big celebs and a few has beens as well and most of them ae great about signing things until it turns into mayhem, I own a boxing radio show and as a result of that I have met ALOT of boxers/MMA champions past and present at press conferences and I book them to do our radio show, never see one of them at a fight charge, Fabio is long over the hill but I was at a party with him 2 weeks ago and he was mobbed for over an hour until he went into the VIP area of the party, I havent spoke to him in years, we were only gym aquitances, We were talking about hm signing and pics, he said "if it wasnt for the people who want that stuff I wouldnt be here s its my responsibilty"

charging for autographs sounds good on paper and like I said before it ends there. even the autograph biz is old news and dated, i like the dedication to the players freddie has but this plan just dosent have legs under it, i wish it did, but i have seen it fail-first hand and believe me Reggie Jackson had the $$$ to give it a god 3 year run and a great staff and it never got off the ground and were talking big sports figures and a more popular sport
 
cor said:
Hey >

Long post but I assure you worth reading!!:

I am an avid reader (daily) of this forum - and I never reply - until now.

I am a young up and coming pool player (a/open speed) (under 21) .. and I can say this is the worst idea I've ever heard of and actually makes me sick.

I can recall going to Super Billiards Expo in PA and 2 World Class Players were sitting by a UPA booth giving autographs. I might of been 16 or 17 at the time and I was impressed and actually nervous to meet them. I went up for an autograph and they told me "25$" or whatever price they were charging. I said "oh" and only having $10 in my pocket I turned around.

It was a disappointing day. As I left the Expo Allen Hopkins was talking to someone from my local pool hall and they called me over. Allen greeted me and signed a poster and handed it to me. It was the coolest thing ever.

Autographs sure may be collectibles but I feel you take away from what it really is. It's somthing you can hang on your wall , admire, and say to your kid/nephew/neice/whoever - I met one of the greats etc.. (not to sound cliche - but some people may feel this way)...

Now as I play more - and I get to play these top players in tournaments I don't feel the same way anymore but I definitly know there are the young crowd out there who feel the SAME way I used to.

I HOPE HOPE HOPE I get to step in the box with these "paid to autograph" players , - BEAT THEM - and sign autographs for every kid in the stand for free.

This gives me even more incentive.

My two cents. Take it for what you may.
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Thank you for saying that and I hope that Freddy reads your post. I was one of those kids who got excited about being in the presence of pool greats and Freddy "the Beard" ruined all my excitement of professional pool players, by being an asshole to a know nothing kid who admired him. Kids are the future of the game and I only respect people who are nice to kids.
 
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