Pro Pool players courting disaster
- Thread starter jay helfert
- Start date
Please do not misquote me, I understand you overlook things that I am saying and that is cool but "I do care" and hope the money is there but its not my business and that is up to the players since its their money plain and simple. I just do not see why there is a lack of confidence with the money being there when the players have been paid money already and not chump change either, it seems to me people are just grasping at straws. As for the business plan, I do not have the right to discuss it but it certainly has potential. I find it funny that some dudes on the internet expect a company to show them the money and the business plan, thanks for the laugh but now back to reality.
Yes Lenny.
A company promising a million dollar prize fund in pool should expect people to not take them seriously if they do not show some means of paying.
If the goal is to not be taken seriously then the business plan is knocking it right out of the park.
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The masses should and do play 8-ball that is the point.
Why are they trying to reinvent the wheel is the question.
Larry just built a million dollar studio that will be fully complete by the weekend. Should he have been forced to disclose how he was going to pay for that as well? He didn't, and sure enough, the facility is there and waiting for the approaching BB season, just as was promised to the players.
The reality is that Larry doesn't owe you or anyone else any information about our business plan, nor where the money is coming from. As long as he has a track record of keeping his word and making payments, then that sure goes a step above and beyond most event promoters.
Take TAR for example. Do you have to put your $4k payout (or whatever) in escrow each exhibition? Of course not. You have a good track record of making payment. As does Larry, as he's already paid out more to the players in the last year than all but one promoter ads in added money to any event on US soil. To me and many players, that proof enough to take the risk of getting a real league underway.
I'm in the same boat as the players. I've been promised a lot. And yet, I also recognize that Larry is paying weekly. If I have a problem, I quit. Worst case scenario is that I'd get screwed out of one week's pay. The players are in the same boat, and can't really lose out.
And there no point in saying "what about the players that moved to Vegas....". The players that move here do on their own accord. Same as I did. They know the risk, and have made the choice. Larry never requested it, it's simply a choice players have made.
Wtf!!!!
Jay, I have all the respect for Greg Sullivan and Mark Griffin. These gentlemen have done and will continue to be a driving force in billiards for a long time. What they do and continue to do speaks for its self. What I would like to know is why you drag you v ery biased opinion and get directly involved with something that really seems to be their business.
Your comments most likely influence a lot of forum members that may or may not understand what is going on with BB. You are coming across to me that you are trying to derail B.B. with your old school belief and you allegiance agains't change.
What I would like to say to the forum readers is you can't believe everything you hear. Sadly to say , Even some of the elder spokesmen . Have your own opinion , That is what we need . New thoughts and ideas. Sadly for Pro Pool the same o same o does not work. Do not step in the crap on here. New, Fresh Ideas. Now that's what pool needs!!!!!!!!!!
Gary Lutman
Jay, I have all the respect for Greg Sullivan and Mark Griffin. These gentlemen have done and will continue to be a driving force in billiards for a long time. What they do and continue to do speaks for its self. What I would like to know is why you drag you v ery biased opinion and get directly involved with something that really seems to be their business.
Your comments most likely influence a lot of forum members that may or may not understand what is going on with BB. You are coming across to me that you are trying to derail B.B. with your old school belief and you allegiance agains't change.
What I would like to say to the forum readers is you can't believe everything you hear. Sadly to say , Even some of the elder spokesmen . Have your own opinion , That is what we need . New thoughts and ideas. Sadly for Pro Pool the same o same o does not work. Do not step in the crap on here. New, Fresh Ideas. Now that's what pool needs!!!!!!!!!!
Gary Lutman
You're right Gary, I am biased. Against anyone who DELIBERATELY steps on the dates of an existing event (and a major one at that), when it was not really necessary. There was never any reason to put the pool players in a position where they should have to decide which event(s) are more important for them.
The Southern Classic is still a new event for Diamond and it's critical that this year be a success, if it's to continue and Diamond is able to expand to three or four Horseshoe tournaments (Atlantic City and Vegas). If the Southern Classic fails this year because of a low player (and spectator) turnout, Bonus Ball will be one of the culprits.
Bonus Ball and Larry benefited greatly from the early assistance of both Greg Sullivan and Mark Griffin. I still believe in something called loyalty and honor. And I feel that is sorely lacking here.
P.S. I am very involved with Greg at both Derby City and the Southern Classic, so it is my business too.
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Well lets just see how many ways there are to make money in pool:
1 PPV: But you have said this is silly. Yet you are still doing it although at a price which will make you no real money at all yet bar entry for the casual viewer.
2. Studio seating: BB spent all the money for a facility that will hold say a 100 or so plus a pro shop and a beer/wine license. Which sounds good in theory except they built it in Vegas where they get to compete with Steve Wynn and the Strip for peoples attention. The income from this revenue stream will be very lucky to break even on the costs to run it.
3. Merchandise: I'm sure this was pitched to investors as a means of income but I just do not see thousands of bonus ball jerseys or ball sets flying out the door. At least not fast enough to save the ship before it sinks under its own weight. Also this is another thing that requires you to outlay a bunch of money before you can make any. Also requires someone to run it all that wont screw it up.
4. Franchises: There were some whispers of selling BB franchises to various people. The number I heard was $250K. Surprisingly I have yet to hear of anyone actually buying one though. Again I am sure this is a concept which sounds awesome in a pitch meeting but in the real world probably wont go as expected.
5. TV/Broadcast rights: Theoretically there is real money to be made here. To my knowledge the only ones who have really figured it out is Matchroom though. Maybe Mr. Chiborak is the next Barry Hearn ? Again...awesome in the pitch meeting but very difficult to actually turn it in to real money. Who knows though. Maybe you can swing a deal in asia though you have already said that is not your target market.
6. Parimutuel Wagering: This idea has been floating around pool forever. It makes some sense and something like BB would make sense for it. The regulatory hassles/taxes/gaming board hurdles would be significant though and require some real savvy to negotiate. An interesting possibility for revenue but a very complex one. Also you have to have people interested enough in something to actually want to bet on it. Long shot deal on this one and my guess is the juice isnt worth the squeeze.
7. Sponsorship/Advertising: The big one. All you need is Coca Cola to pony up $2 Mil to sponsor the Atlanta squad and get Apple to post the same to sponsor the Cali team and so on down the line. What could go wrong?
It's quite possible your business plan provides a viable stream of revenue to cover $2 Million a season that I missed in there somewhere. I know I'm not on the same level mentally with the powerhouse minds behind Bonus Ball so I'm sure I missed something. I am standing by to learn something. Along with everyone else.
Yes, you did miss something.
Nobody is trying to "derail" BB. Sadly, it may well derail itself. Only time will tell. 
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
You are the second person to say " If I have a problem, I quit. The players are in the same boat, and can't really lose out."
What about that million dollar prize fund? The players will just be all cool if in week 18 Larry says "We are running tight I have to delay payment." They will just walk away with no hard feelings ?
The difference between TAR and BB is I am not promising things that make people change their lives and screw up peoples events who have been here long before me.
Is it true that if Bonus Ball tanks in the first season you get to keep the production gear as compensation ?
Holy smoke batman the joker has an ace in the hole!
Lol
Kd
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Jay
I hope that all is well in Tunica also, I consider myself a friend of Gregs also . I also believe in honor. I , as well as other people don't k
now what happened. But until Greg gets on this forum his self and directly tells his side i think trying to influence negativity on a new venture is wrong.
Jay , i don't know the story, But i see a big arena built for Pro Pool that was built. It
has had it's own setback issues. This, as far as i know has never been attempted.
I truly believe all of this came together not to harm or destroy Greg or Mark.
This looks like an independent attempt to do something new. Now it may or may not work, But i sit here and say to myself , Hmmmm Something new. Lets all look at it with binoculars and not a fine toothed comb.
Do pool a big favor Jay. Promote it give it a chance. The players are all there. Lets root for this to succeed. Their backs are already agains't the wall. Wait to pull the trigger.
Sincerley. Gary
I hope that all is well in Tunica also, I consider myself a friend of Gregs also . I also believe in honor. I , as well as other people don't k
now what happened. But until Greg gets on this forum his self and directly tells his side i think trying to influence negativity on a new venture is wrong.
Jay , i don't know the story, But i see a big arena built for Pro Pool that was built. It
has had it's own setback issues. This, as far as i know has never been attempted.
I truly believe all of this came together not to harm or destroy Greg or Mark.
This looks like an independent attempt to do something new. Now it may or may not work, But i sit here and say to myself , Hmmmm Something new. Lets all look at it with binoculars and not a fine toothed comb.
Do pool a big favor Jay. Promote it give it a chance. The players are all there. Lets root for this to succeed. Their backs are already agains't the wall. Wait to pull the trigger.
Sincerley. Gary
What gear?
Nice picture!
Some of that equipment (over $10k worth) is my own, on lend to the studio to help create a future for pool.
Yet you guys will do everything possible to discredit and belittle anyone who is trying something that you can't cash in on, or are unable to understand. It's quite sad really.
I think some may be trying to add a little levity to the heat in this thread. Unfortunately, when you're emotionally involved in something, it is hard to see the humor. Been there and done that on both sides of the fence.
FWIW, I think you look cute with your baseball cap tilted to the side. :wub:
Rejoice in the fact that you're venturing into something unique, a brand-new frontier. In this regard, you are a pioneer at this stage. Hey, if it succeeds, there will be a lot of people eating crow on this forum, and if it fails, well, you dust yourself off, get back up, and create a new goal.
Remember there are three types of people in the world: those who make things happen, those who watch what happens, and those who wonder what happened. You're making things happen. Enjoy the ride!
If Jay says he is speaking on what Greg D. told him, than that is good enough for me. Some people say they have honor and respect but their actions tell you otherwise. Those people lie and swing stories so much that they can;'t even figure out which story they told last. Jay has never had that problem or flaw in his character.
If Jay comes on here and says he talked to Greg and he also knows that Greg reads this board, I'll take Jay's word at 100%.
Unfortunately, Larry from BB doesn't post here and Barry was the original mouthpiece of BB and he got run off by Larry.
If Jay comes on here and says he talked to Greg and he also knows that Greg reads this board, I'll take Jay's word at 100%.
Unfortunately, Larry from BB doesn't post here and Barry was the original mouthpiece of BB and he got run off by Larry.
CAGHT ME! I'm always trying to "cash in". I need to stop offering to do things for free for everyone so I can finally cash in!
Funny thing about bonus ball is everyone involved, including yourself, know it's not a matter of it... but when it will fail. Larry just has to please his investors and open shop. Then you all get your perks for your efforts when it all comes down. Well, except the players. It's fine for you, you'll walk with more than any of the players I'm sure. Congrats!
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Not in our lifetime. Getting a parimutuel license isn't about being "right" or "legal" or any of the good-government ideals. It's about political infighting with established interests like horse-racing tracks, casinos, lotteries, etc. Those interests aren't going to allow any other sport or game to get in on the action. Welcome to Illinois (and New York, and New Jersey and so on....). Besides, $2 million wouldn't even cover your lobbying team's meals for the first week.
I've enjoyed the BB that I've seen and plan to watch it when it comes on line (mostly because I enjoy the team aspect). But I don't see how the numbers work either.