Pros today vs the pros yesterday

[L.S. Dennis]

I'm sitting here scratching my head trying to figure out what was wrong with Mosconi's mechanics.

The answer is nothing really. When he played right handed his head alignment was a little funny kind of favoring his left eye (much like Buddy Hall lined up) in an upright stance but when he shot left handed (and he shot great left handed as well easily able to run 70 and out playing left handed) his head was more in the middle of the cue. He did kind of jump up a little after shooting in his later years but the cue ball didn't give a damn about that and just hit the object ball where he was aiming almost all the time. Mechanics sure they are the correct way to learn to play but let's not get all caught up in this mumbo jumbo, and concentrate what it really takes to win.

 

[34YearsOfPlayin]

I honestly don't watch a lot of modern players. I think I will now. But I really doubt that any of these players can take Efren Reyes or really any of the great filipinos that caused the Filipino Invasion. The Filipinos strokes were called bad mechanics and the general attitude when Efren first came to United States was that he could not play. Boy were they wrong.

So I guess I feel like mechanics aren't the most important thing.

 

[book collector]

Easier? Maybe. But,.the talent pool is Very deep.
Winning one US Open today tops all of Sigel's US Open titles , combined. When Shane won his last one, he had to beat several WORLD CHAMPIONS in the final two days.
Sigel beat a field of 64 or less.
Shane has one world 9 title because of the talent pool is ridiculous now.

Wow , I watched Sigel play many, many times and even though I have never been a fan of his because of his arrogance, I thought he was not only a great player, but one of the most dogged competitors I ever watched.
Different era, different equipment, probably less dedication to practice in some cases ? I don't know for sure.
Yes , the game is evolving, so is every other sport, that is the natural way.

 

[measureman]

The answer is nothing really. When he played right handed his head alignment was a little funny kind of favoring his left eye (much like Buddy Hall lined up) in an upright stance but when he shot left handed (and he shot great left handed as well easily able to run 70 and out playing left handed) his head was more in the middle of the cue. He did kind of jump up a little after shooting in his later years but the cue ball didn't give a damn about that and just hit the object ball where he was aiming almost all the time. Mechanics sure they are the correct way to learn to play but let's not get all caught up in this mumbo jumbo, and concentrate what it really takes to win.

Keith McCready has/had the worst mechanics of just about every top player ever.
But he sure made it work for him.

 

[L.S. Dennis]

Keith McCready has/had the worst mechanics of just about every top player ever.
But he sure made it work for him.

I agree

 

[23DenaliBDE]

Keith McCready has/had the worst mechanics of just about every top player ever.
But he sure made it work for him.

I watched a match from the 90s that was linked a few weeks back. I don’t remember the guys name, but it was a huge name everyone else would know. Wildly successful. I’m watching that match thinking how much money I would have lost because as bad as I am if I saw that top pro in a bar I would have been certain he was geeked out of his mind on meth. The. Most erratic thing I’ve ever watched. Everything about the guy. I’m sure somewhere someone uses him as an argument that it can be done however you want to do it. This is true. I saw a woman balance upside down on a mouthpiece she was biting and bullseye an arrow shooting the bow with her feet. I probably won’t teach my boy to shoot that way though. I do agree that Undoing a habit is not always the answer too

 

[RADAR]

I think 2 ingredients in many sports that you simply cant teach people is feel & timing. With that natural talent one dont need excellent mechanics, how hold cue, aim blah blah blah. you got it and will beat so many people who look better than one has those 2 talents.

 

[Jaden]

I honestly don't watch a lot of modern players. I think I will now. But I really doubt that any of these players can take Efren Reyes or really any of the great filipinos that caused the Filipino Invasion. The Filipinos strokes were called bad mechanics and the general attitude when Efren first came to United States was that he could not play. Boy were they wrong.

So I guess I feel like mechanics aren't the most important thing.

They absolutely ARE the most important thing, the problem is the focus on the wrong mechanics...

Jaden

 

[maha]

great mechanics can make a good player much better. but a super great player is going to be that no matter what his mechanics are as his mind, and body adjusts to whatever the situation is and compensates for it.

as can be seen with all the all time greats. of which only a few had great mechanics.

as long as your cue goes straight and hits the point where it needs to that is what is needed.

 

[L.S. Dennis]

great mechanics can make a good player much better. but a super great player is going to be that no matter what his mechanics are as his mind, and body adjusts to whatever the situation is and compensates for it.

as can be seen with all the all time greats. of which only a few had great mechanics.

as long as your cue goes straight and hits the point where it needs to that is what is needed.

I absolutely agree, as long as you line up straight with the shot, have you feet well balanced, and come down with your head over the line of the shot, and stroke straight all the rest is hoopla. Too many people spend way too much time dwelling on every little facet of what they've been told are 'good mechanics' that they end up losing sight of the other important parts of the game. Put the balls in the holes!

 

[Dan White]

great mechanics can make a good player much better. but a super great player is going to be that no matter what his mechanics are as his mind, and body adjusts to whatever the situation is and compensates for it.

as can be seen with all the all time greats. of which only a few had great mechanics.

as long as your cue goes straight and hits the point where it needs to that is what is needed.

I don't know Michael Jordan said the difference between the good players and the great ones is fundamentals

 

[Mark V]

The equipment has made the 2 different generations not really comparable. Slower cloth and cushions, inconsistent balls and racks and shaft technology have all made for this.

Would a player from the 90s ever in 1 million years take a touchy table length cut, cue ball is 3” off the rail, high right, 3 rail position on the 9? Hell no, so why ever practice it? Skid, throw, humidity, cloth that wasn’t necessarily new for the tournament, your opponent is smoking, bad lighting… Longer shots with funny position were an automatic safe for most mortals that were born on planet earth.

That shot while very tough, is much more routine today because it takes MUCH less stroke these days to pull off. Having to stroke a long shot with worse conditions makes for a harder game than fantastic equipment but tight pockets. Super stupid high right fire it in is now high right with medium speed.

Go to a 5” pocket table with bar room cloth and shit lighting and fire in 10 long cut stroke shots and see how many you make. Now go to a 4 1/4” modern table and led lights and try for the same position. If I had to make that shot in 1 try or have Santiago beat my knee in with a claw hammer, I know which table I’m taking and which table I’m saying F all that to. And todays top pros would likely say the same thing.

Modern players shoot longer shots more routinely because inarguably, it takes less skill to get position from far away than it used be so they get more practice at it. They aren’t automatic safetys like they used to be.

Give prime Nick 3 months of practice on a blue label Diamond with modern equipment and YouTube access and I can promise you, nobody would like ANY of it. He would give any top pro all they could handle. He may only need 1 piece of gum.

The game is apples to oranges now.

 

[JPB2]

The answer is nothing really. When he played right handed his head alignment was a little funny kind of favoring his left eye (much like Buddy Hall lined up) in an upright stance but when he shot left handed (and he shot great left handed as well easily able to run 70 and out playing left handed) his head was more in the middle of the cue. He did kind of jump up a little after shooting in his later years but the cue ball didn't give a damn about that and just hit the object ball where he was aiming almost all the time. Mechanics sure they are the correct way to learn to play but let's not get all caught up in this mumbo jumbo, and concentrate what it really takes to win.

So maybe his head lined up with his eye dominance and vision center in a spot where he could perceive the shot and make it? IMO - and I am not an instructor- the more I see the less I think the cue directly under the center of the chin with the head and face dead square is an actual fundamental. Not even the snooker players really do this unless their vision actually allows it. Take a player with cross dominance. Hours of forcing a change will probably go out the window because his body brain and vision are going to line up with the cue away from the chin toward the dominant eye/ vision center at the soonest opportunity

 

[Baby Huey]

I couldn't disagree more about Keith McCready's mechanics. I think he had some of the BEST mechanics ever. When he walked to the table his footwork was perfect. Never had to adjust his feet and his stance was right there. Now if you're talking about his other problems unrelated to his mechanics that affected his play then OK. Keith lasted as long as he did because of his superior mechanics. Only his lifestyle took its toll on him in the end.

 

[bbb]

Give prime Nick 3 months of practice on a blue label Diamond with modern equipment and YouTube access and I can promise you, nobody would like ANY of it. He would give any top pro all they could handle. He may only need 1 piece of gum.

The game is apples to oranges now.

 

[pvc lou]

great mechanics can make a good player much better. but a super great player is going to be that no matter what his mechanics are as his mind, and body adjusts to whatever the situation is and compensates for it.

as can be seen with all the all time greats. of which only a few had great mechanics.

as long as your cue goes straight and hits the point where it needs to that is what is needed.

Counterexample to your point: Efren playing balkline...

Efren is a legend in pool, but I estimate that there are thousands of players that he couldn't hang with playing straight rail, one rail, balkline, and three cushion...in large part just because he hasn't developed the mechanics for carom billiards.

 

[JustPlay]

The world is now more involved in professional pocket billiards since 2005. On a larger scale than the US. The equipment i.e. cloth, rails pocket, cues, tips and carbon fiber shafts have changed. Most players today are in very well fitness physical condition. Sigel, Mizerak, Strickland, Varner, Reyes and Archer (just to name a few) you turn back the clock on any of these players and make them 25 yrs old again would be at the top alongside the top players of today. Excellent TED Talk on sports performance. I think most will enjoy it. Thanks for reading.

 

[driz86]

Have you seen Jayson Shaw in his record run?

Yes. What's your point? He's one player, and the fact that he made that run doesn't convince me he would necessarily do any better than 14.1 champions from previous eras over time. If you think the abillity to run a lot of balls at one time translates into success in a 14.1 tournament format then you'd be mistaken. Following that logic, John Schmidt would have more 14.1 world championship wins than Thorsten H., for example and that's not the case at all (1 vs 4).

 

[sjm]

Yes. What's your point? He's one player, and the fact that he made that run doesn't convince me he would necessarily do any better than 14.1 champions from previous eras over time. If you think the abillity to run a lot of balls at one time translates into success in a 14.1 tournament format then you'd be mistaken. Following that logic, John Schmidt would have more 14.1 world championship wins than Thorsten H., for example and that's not the case at all (1 vs 4).

Darn right. Greatness is and will always be measured in titles.

 

[Cornerman]

The equipment has made the 2 different generations not really comparable. Slower cloth and cushions, inconsistent balls and racks and shaft technology have all made for this.

Would a player from the 90s ever in 1 million years take a touchy table length cut, cue ball is 3” off the rail, high right, 3 rail position on the 9? Hell no, so why ever practice it? Skid, throw, humidity, cloth that wasn’t necessarily new for the tournament, your opponent is smoking, bad lighting… Longer shots with funny position were an automatic safe for most mortals that were born on planet earth.

That shot while very tough, is much more routine today because it takes MUCH less stroke these days to pull off. Having to stroke a long shot with worse conditions makes for a harder game than fantastic equipment but tight pockets. Super stupid high right fire it in is now high right with medium speed.

Go to a 5” pocket table with bar room cloth and shit lighting and fire in 10 long cut stroke shots and see how many you make. Now go to a 4 1/4” modern table and led lights and try for the same position. If I had to make that shot in 1 try or have Santiago beat my knee in with a claw hammer, I know which table I’m taking and which table I’m saying F all that to. And todays top pros would likely say the same thing.

Modern players shoot longer shots more routinely because inarguably, it takes less skill to get position from far away than it used be so they get more practice at it. They aren’t automatic safetys like they used to be.

Give prime Nick 3 months of practice on a blue label Diamond with modern equipment and YouTube access and I can promise you, nobody would like ANY of it. He would give any top pro all they could handle. He may only need 1 piece of gum.

The game is apples to oranges now.

1
Million
Per
Cent